Fossilized Mammoth Ivory

[Nevin]

When I win the lottery (tonight?) I will commision one with a malachite nut from you.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Interesting point there Marty - but !. Would a 'stone' type material be too hard ?. I'm thinking of a nut slot that's a minute bit too wide, causing the string to 'ring',whereas a material that has a bit more 'damping' to it would still be ok. A Turquoise or Malachite 'topped' nut could look stunning though if it could be done. Maybe making a solid one to try out would be an interesting excercise ?,
Ivan

[liestman]

What is beings sold as fossilized mammoth ivory is either overpirced bone or an attempt to legitimize illegal elephant ivory.

I think the real problem is an imprecise use of the word "fossilized".

Those two lines sum it up nicely. Before moving into IT, I was a professional paleontologist for Exxon for many years - and another one of our very small team was also a mandolin player - what draws us geo-types to this instrument?

I think my worry about using mammoth would be with traveling internationally - probably a customs person would not know it from elephant ivory and would make your like miserable. I will stick with cow bone or pearl.

[Bob Clark]

I understand all the consideration of materials for bridges, as that should effect the sound of all notes played. But when it comes to nut material, isn't that just going to effect open notes? Won't fretting negate any impact nut material has on tone? I am not saying that isn't important, just thinking it may be less important and making sure I understand the issue under discussion.

As to the point about color of the nut, although I don't actually know what material my Phoenix Neoclassical's nut is made of, it is a deep brown color and I really like the look. To my eye, a dark-colored nut really dresses up the instrument (YMMV).

I am also intrigued by Marty's mention of a self-lubricating nut. I have always used pencil graphite (apparently containing clay) as mentioned above. Perhaps I have never needed it anyway. One way to find out.

[vic-victor]

I have some malachite and turquoise here that would be awesome... but nobody has wanted that much bling so far. :-)

It is because Arab Sheiks are not getting into mandolins yet. I've heard some luthier used diamonds for fret markers on a custom-made classical guitar...

[Jeff Mando]

It is because Arab Sheiks are not getting into mandolins yet. I've heard some luthier used diamonds for fret markers on a custom-made classical guitar...

About 35 years ago I was a cab driver for Yellow Cab. The "training" consists of a 10 minute written test, which basically proves you can write your name and read, the boss said "don't hit anyone in the rear, cause it'll be your fault," a medical exam from one of their paid "quacks", which again took about 5 minutes -- the "doctor" honestly was smoking a cigarette during the entire "exam" -- looked like something right out of Hee-Haw......I already had a chauffers license from being a truck driver, so I think I went to work that same day.........ANYWAY, the rumor that was going around the office, keep in mind early '80's, was that one of drivers had just picked up a Sheik at the airport and got a $900 tip, about three months into the job I realized that was a carefully planted rumor to "motivate" new drivers -- truth is a lot of poor people take the cab to buy groceries and go to the doctor and can't afford to tip. The middle class have cars and don't take cabs. (and therefore don't tip) Traveling businessmen use cabs often going from one hotel to another, mostly short $5-10 fares, so even a "big" tip isn't much.............I never saw any big tips and wouldn't have expected any if the cab company hadn't put the idea out there!

NO MANDOLIN CONTENT (well, if I guess if I got a big enough tip I could buy a new mandolin!)

[John Arnold]

What is being sold as fossilized mammoth ivory is either overpriced bone or an attempt to legitimize illegal elephant ivory.

Real mammoth ivory is available from reputable sellers, and is easily identifiable. You are correct in that it is not fossilized, but it is mineralized.
It is from extinct animals and is thousands of years old. Arguing about its fossil nature is pointless, IMHO.

[Bertram Henze]

...I never saw any big tips and wouldn't have expected any if the cab company hadn't put the idea out there!

[rockies]

I have used mammoth ivory for nuts and saddles, just to be different, I see no advantage in it. However for your knowledge, mammoth ivory is NOT a fossil, NOT mislabeled elephant ivory, it is mined in Canada's and Russia's northern areas from the permafrost where it has been preserved for since the ice ages. It indeed is a viable mining industry in northern Canada and possibly in Alaska.
Dave

[rockies]

For the record mammoth ivory is NOT a fossil, NOT mislabeled elephant ivory. It is mined from the permafrost (where it's been preserved) in the northern areas of Canada, Alaska and Russia. It is a viable commercial enterprise here in Canada.
Dave

[rockies]

Sorry duplicate post ...
Dave

[Marty Jacobson]

It is mined from the permafrost...

What is this "permafrost" of which you speak?

[liestman]

For the record, mammoth ivory is a fossil. The Cambridge dictionary defines fossil as "part of a plant or animal, or its shape, that has been preserved in rock or earth for a very long period". Mammoths lived in the Pleistocene epoch. The ivory is dug out of the earth (permafrost in this case). It does not have to be the cast of a long-ago disintegrated clam to be a fossil. Yes, seriously, I used to be the Assistant Curator of the Museum of Invertebrate Paleonotolgy at the University of Kansas and later a professional paleontologist working for Exxon.

There have been found frozen mammoths that have never been covered in earth, so those would not be considered fossils, but they are quite rare and not sold for making instrument parts as far as I can tell.

[Jeff Mando]

Please excuse my ignorance. I'm not sure I'm understanding the controversy or even the distinction. Are "we" concerned that it is a mineral vs a bone? Or something else? And, as it would apply to instrument nuts and qualities of sustain and brightness, I'm guessing.....

[liestman]

Most fossils are rocks. Think of them as being naturally formed cast concrete, so they would probably not be even worth considering for instrument use (I guess) but mammoth ivory is essentially really really old ivory - the pretty much original material, not a nature-made-concrete-case of ivory. So that makes it much more like pearl or bone and not at all like a piece of limestone. The presumption is that ivory works better and sounds better than limestone for a nut. But the real question, that I cannot answer, is whether it is any better than modern cow bone or pearl for the purpose, and it probably isn't but I don't know that for sure.

[HoGo]

The trouble with graphite from a pencil lead is that it is made from graphite and clay.
Dave H

Use the softest pencil you can get (5B in my case, I wonder what is the US designation for this) that contains the least amount of clay, if any, or artist grade pure graphite sticks.
Or you can get a piece of mineral graphite (scraps from moulds at local foundry).

[Ivan Kelsall]

Quote - "Permafrost is soil, rock or sediment that is frozen for more than two consecutive years. In areas not overlain by ice, it exists beneath a layer of soil, rock or sediment, which freezes and thaws annually and is called the "active layer".

''Permafrost'' makes up a colossal % of the Siberian Tundra in Russia, where many 'frozen' Mammoths have been found. :-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permafrost

As has been mentioned already,true 'fossils' are made of stone which has replaced the original organic matter over millions of years. I've been hoping for years that somebody would find ''un-fossilized'' T-Rex toenails = 'real' street cred.,
Ivan

[Sterling]

I have some malachite and turquoise here that would be awesome... but nobody has wanted that much bling so far. :-)

Now you tell me..... I'm still loving your #37 with Lapis lazuli and Amber Koi fish!

[fatt-dad]

Not all fossils are replaced by quartz or calcite - i.e., replacement. Original material fossils are another type. They are, "preserved" in some capacity within rock or soil. We'd still use the term fossil; however for either.

f-d

[Sterling]

Martin, if I had only known! My #37 Lapis and Amber Koi doesn't need any more bling, but..... it still plays great!

[John Arnold]

IMHO:
Mammoth ivory is not better than bone or elephant ivory. Some of it is very soft, and smells rotten. I would characterize the tone as a bit more mellow than bone, and not as loud. Pearl is harder than bone, and by deduction, much harder than mammoth ivory.

[HoGo]

Agree, mammoth or any other old ivory is unpredictable. Sometimes it just crumbles...
Good bone is most reliable natural material as pearl can be of varying quality as well (chippy at edges).

[Inklings]

Fellow geologist here. . .

A lot of geologists on here - not a wonder the Mandolin Cafe rocks!

(Waiting for Hi-Hat)

[bratsche]

I've been hoping for years that somebody would find ''un-fossilized'' T-Rex toenails = 'real' street cred.,
Ivan

I'd love to try a pick from that material!

A lot of geologists on here - not a wonder the Mandolin Cafe rocks!

Just couldn't resist commenting, "No Schist!"

bratsche

[pops1]

I'd love to try a pick from that material!



Just couldn't resist commenting, "No Schist!"

bratsche

Years ago I made several picks from fossilized walrus tusk, they were ok, but nothing special. They can look incredible tho. One thing they can disintegrate if they get wet so if your hands sweat while you play they might not work well.