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Thread: Is the electric guitar dying, taking Gibson and others with it?

  1. #101
    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the electric guitar dying, taking Gibson and others with i

    Gibson didn't do themselves any favours several years back when they pulled their instruments out of any music store that wasn't selling as many instruments as Gibson would have liked. So,the music stores that maybe only sold 2 or 3 Gibsons in any one year had none to sell at all.

    A friend of mine who had a music store in Liverpool UK,used to sell Gibson guitars & banjos. Gibson pulled their instruments,so he took on the UK franchise for Huber banjos,as well as the Stelling banjos he was already the main EU dealer for. How could that have been anything but bad for Gibson ?.

    I can understand that having made 'x' # of instruments at a huge cost,Gibson wanted the cash. But you can't force folk to buy 'your' instruments in a market where there's a growing choice of other,less expensive,but still very good instruments - i'm thinking of the 'better' Asian built instruments here. We mustn't forget all the 'used' Gibsons / Fenders / Rickenbackers & Epiphones etc. around either. They must form a large part of the guitar sales in any country,& so detract from the sales of new instruments.

    It would seems that unless you happen to have a major instrument store close to you,the days of being able to wander in,to play a few Gibson 'Les Pauls' / Fender 'Strats.' & 'Teles.' etc. are long gone. The guitar market right now seems to be saturated,so why make more just to have them lying around unsold & no cash return on them ?.
    Maybe demo.models could be distributed to a few stores,but if a customer wanted to buy one,it would have to be ordered from stock ?. Not the best 'try before you buy' scenario - but many dealerships for other products do exactly that,
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  2. #102
    Registered User Petrus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the electric guitar dying, taking Gibson and others with i

    Quote Originally Posted by Billkwando View Post
    My wife already had a purple Mahalo uke (that she hasn't yet learned to play) when I saw this video, so it gave me hope for the cheapy instrument (which I later installed a pickup in, after doing it on my mando first).
    Yep I got a great $50 uke in the form of the Bugsgear which makes cool hard plastic ukes in a modern style. They're hard plastic, not that cheap material on some vintage plastic ukes, and robust enough for outdoors and travel through all kinds of climate. I suppose the main issue with cheaper ukes is going to be the tuners, but you can upgrade those if needed.

    I got the black bodied one with the red neck. The jazzy f-hole uke is interesting. Usually I'll tune it in 5ths and use sort of like a practice or travel mandolin.

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  3. #103

    Default Re: Is the electric guitar dying, taking Gibson and others with i

    Quote Originally Posted by Petrus View Post
    Yep I got a great $50 uke in the form of the Bugsgear which makes cool hard plastic ukes in a modern style. They're hard plastic, not that cheap material on some vintage plastic ukes, and robust enough for outdoors and travel through all kinds of climate. I suppose the main issue with cheaper ukes is going to be the tuners, but you can upgrade those if needed.

    I got the black bodied one with the red neck. The jazzy f-hole uke is interesting. Usually I'll tune it in 5ths and use sort of like a practice or travel mandolin.

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    Oh neat! I wasn't sure how the pitches correspond.. So it must be close enough to a mandolin that you can tune to GDAE w/o worrying about breaking a string. Awesome.

  4. #104

    Default Re: Is the electric guitar dying, taking Gibson and others with i

    Quote Originally Posted by Billkwando View Post
    Oh neat! I wasn't sure how the pitches correspond.. So it must be close enough to a mandolin that you can tune to GDAE w/o worrying about breaking a string. Awesome.
    Not to derail the thread but the scale of a soprano uke is basically the same as a mandolin (~13 inches). To tune GDAE with proper tension requires different strings and luckily Aquila has a 'fifths' uke set for just this purpose. That's how I was able to achieve it on my banjolele.

    To get back on track: I own two electrics bought used over 20 years ago. Both are Japanese (Ibanez Jem and Fender Master Series Flame Elite). Don't plan on ever selling them but I also don't plan on buying another new or used. I feel there is a slow rise going on in both the playing and appreciation of acoustic music of all types and I'm firmly on board.

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  6. #105
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    Default Re: Is the electric guitar dying, taking Gibson and others with i

    Quote Originally Posted by sblock View Post
    the "demise" of the electric guitar
    A consummation devoutly to be wished.
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  7. #106
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    Default Re: Is the electric guitar dying, taking Gibson and others with i

    Why Today's Budget Guitars Are Superior To The Retros

    https://web.musicaficionado.com/main...mpaign=fanpage

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  9. #107

    Default Re: Is the electric guitar dying, taking Gibson and others with i

    I like used guitars, but I'm not sure how used guitars hurts the new guitar market? That's like saying used cars hurt the new car market -- seems like everywhere I look I see people driving new cars......not too scientific, but just another opinion.......

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  11. #108

    Default Re: Is the electric guitar dying, taking Gibson and others with i

    Ive read the article and the entire thread.
    I have a lot of electrics and amps.

    Been playing bluegrass a lot, but, grassed pop too.
    Mando, d28, now a bloody banjer.

    I love my electrics.
    Fun, and easy to color with effects.
    Fun to mix in any genre, imho.
    They are the sports cars of guitars.

    While buying the hardware stuff is easy, i tend to agree about making learning as consumer friendly.

    Frankly, the way music is made, ie direct in, home studios, etc, tend to make the need for an amp and feedback resistant solid body less a necessity.

  12. #109
    Orso grasso FatBear's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the electric guitar dying, taking Gibson and others with i

    You have to separate the instruments from the businesses. Musical instruments are durable goods. A lot of them have been made in the last 50 years, people take care of them, and many of the older ones are worth keeping up and fixing up. Their numbers tend to accumulate in the world. So used instrument sales are a huge part of the market and are major competitors with the much more expensive new instruments. If you're looking specifically at Gibson, you need to consider that they are also competing with foreign (mostly Chinese) products which are becoming higher and higher quality competitors.
    Gibson will likely survive as a name. It's too valuable to die out. They may shrink and become even more boutique than they are now. They may be bought out - as they have bought others in the past. They may do final assembly of Chinese made components or be forced to sell Chinese made product to their designs, etc. At some point maybe the pendulum will swing back or maybe it won't.

  13. #110
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    Default Re: Is the electric guitar dying, taking Gibson and others with i

    Most cars will eventually end up in a landfill, which makes room for the new cars, but I'd bet that most guitars do not. They're not really something that gets thrown in the trash in most cases. I think that's at least one of the reasons why they compete so heavily with new guitars.
    ...

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  15. #111
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    Default Re: Is the electric guitar dying, taking Gibson and others with i

    Quote Originally Posted by Caleb View Post
    Most cars will eventually end up in a landfill, which makes room for the new cars, but I'd bet that most guitars do not. They're not really something that gets thrown in the trash in most cases. I think that's at least one of the reasons why they compete so heavily with new guitars.
    Also, a lot of new guitars are copies of designs from the '50s and '60s, the more accurate the better. It would be bizarre if, say, Ford sold mainly copies of their sedans from 1950.

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    Default Re: Is the electric guitar dying, taking Gibson and others with i

    Admitting that I have yet to read this interesting piece, my reaction is that genres of music, and thus diversity of instruments, are growing in number and complexity. Just as popular music has embraced acoustic and folk instruments in the recent decade, blues guitar interest is growing. This means that the electric guitar and tube amps are at an all time high in popularity (not in sales numbers, but in interest, used guitar sales and trade magazines).

    I am a singer/songwriter who has played acoustic guitar for 55 years. I added the mandolin four years ago. Since 1965, when I was given an electric guitar, I have played electric off and on. In the 80's popular music featured much less acoustic guitar, piano or live strings in recordings being published.

    When Tracy Chapman, REM and the unplugged MTV series showed up, the acoustic guitar was back. It had never left, it was just not being featured in videos and music being published. Band of Horses, Bright Eyes, The Avery Brothers and the Lumineers have seemingly swept punk rock from it's perch, but if I were a Warped Tour fan I doubt I would hold that view. There is such a thing as punk-folk I am told.

    Well, the point is, if you play it and you love it, it is still viable. The Mandolin movement is big, but if you look at guitar center you will see two mandolins for every twelve Ukuleles. I would say that you would be in the wrong store to find a good mandolin. I wish Mandolin stores in California were as prevalent as guitar center! Then, I could go and see/play the Collings, Weber and Gibson Mandolins I am dreaming of in person, as I can with the various Fender, Epiphone and Gibson guitars and tube amps that I long for, as well. Now, I'm off to read the article.
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  18. #113
    Registered User Tom Haywood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the electric guitar dying, taking Gibson and others with i

    I see plenty of retired folks buying new electric guitars - Telecasters, Strats, Les Pauls, SGs, and buying the more expensive American made models. So I don't see that the electric guitar is dying in general. But it has pretty much died in my personal world. It made no sense to me to lose my hearing or to wear ear plugs to play music, so after 40 years playing electric guitar music including 10 years trying unsuccessfully to get folks to TURN IT DOWN, I realized that volume knobs only turn in one direction. In 2007 I quit electric music. The Strat has been out of the closet only once in the last 10 years. Well, I did buy a UBass a few years ago, but it's not a guitar and I put a volume control on it that turns in 2 directions. After 10 years, I actually have zero desire to even listen to electric music and even less desire to play it. Might that change? Anything is possible, but I'm getting ready to tune up the old '68 Twin Reverb and sell it.
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    Default Re: Is the electric guitar dying, taking Gibson and others with i

    Quote Originally Posted by SincereCorgi View Post
    Also, a lot of new guitars are copies of designs from the '50s and '60s, the more accurate the better. It would be bizarre if, say, Ford sold mainly copies of their sedans from 1950.
    I'd absolutely LOVE a BMW 2002 from the 1970s. Government will not permit their consttruction/sale, thanks to the EPA regs. The newer the Beemers get, the more ammoying bells and whistles they install; cupholders, air bags, computer modules to control everything from electric windows to windshield wipers. The Ultimate Driving Experience is a thing of the past.

    Same thing with analog vs digital recording, effects, and so forth. We've lost a good deal of good stuff in the name of "improvements" which restrict the marketplace and add cost. (I understand vinyl records are making a comeback, BTW.)

    Got an instrument with an ivory bridge, or rosewood, or ebony? Soon you'll be forbidden to sell it, unless you can prove the sourceing. Remember the Feds raiding Gibson a few years ago?

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    Default Re: Is the electric guitar dying, taking Gibson and others with i

    Take a listen to Jason Isbell and you will answer this question with a resounding "NO".

  21. #116
    FIDDLES with STRADOLINS your_diamond's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is the electric guitar dying, taking Gibson and others with i

    I can't wait until the market crashes & I can buy my 1960 P Bass & my 1924 L-4 & my 1956 Les Paul Special
    back for pennies on the dollar

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    Default Re: Is the electric guitar dying, taking Gibson and others with i

    Quote Originally Posted by your_diamond View Post
    I can't wait until the market crashes & I can buy my 1960 P Bass & my 1924 L-4 & my 1956 Les Paul Special
    back for pennies on the dollar
    Yeah, or even for what you sold them for. I know the feeling.

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  24. #118
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    Default Re: Is the electric guitar dying, taking Gibson and others with i

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob A View Post
    I'd absolutely LOVE a BMW 2002 from the 1970s. Government will not permit their consttruction/sale, thanks to the EPA regs. The newer the Beemers get, the more ammoying bells and whistles they install; cupholders, air bags, computer modules to control everything from electric windows to windshield wipers. The Ultimate Driving Experience is a thing of the past.

    Same thing with analog vs digital recording, effects, and so forth. We've lost a good deal of good stuff in the name of "improvements" which restrict the marketplace and add cost. (I understand vinyl records are making a comeback, BTW.)

    Got an instrument with an ivory bridge, or rosewood, or ebony? Soon you'll be forbidden to sell it, unless you can prove the sourceing. Remember the Feds raiding Gibson a few years ago?
    There are always some folks who don't approve of new things, convinced that "we don't make 'em like we used to" and that older is better, no matter what the subject of discussion. But newer BMWs are more reliable cars. Their power trains last longer. They are vastly safer. They get better gas mileage, and they pollute less. So you really have to define exactly what you mean by "better", before you make broad claims of superiority! Moreover, many of us feel that EPA regulations are good things for our environment. Getting rid of the lead in gasoline was one of those. Next, digital recording is not inferior to analog recording. It is true that lower sampling rates and bit-sizes on some recorded music that is sold is inferior, but high-quality digital "master-level" recordings capture every bit as a much -- and more! -- than old analog recordings, and they are comparatively immune to hiss, pop, degradation, and various nonlinear distortions.

    And just think how much better our telephones are today than they were in the 1970s!

    Fortunately, mandolins use, for the most part, non-CITES woods and parts (maple, spruce, and some types of ebony and rosewood that are still available for use). Yes, those regulations have become a pain in the you-know-what for some instrument makers, because they were designed to stop a much larger and more damaging trade in furniture and other goods that dominate those markets. The instrument problems are a nasty form of "collateral damage" associated with laws that are a bit too ham-fisted. That said, those laws were designed to protect elephants from being slaughtered (for ivory), and Brazilian hardwood from being devastated (Brazilian rosewood), and so on. Railing on against them is not helpful. But I agree that these laws could use some tweaking in order to ease some of the restrictions placed on luthiers and traveling musicians. That said, I am fully supportive of a ban in the ivory trade!

    The "good old days" never really existed: this is pretty much a nostalgic fantasy, sorry. Old technology, in general (with rare exceptions), is not superior to new technology. And rolling back regulations to the 1970's is not going to happen. And no one is going to go back to analog recording, 1970's cars -- or use elephant ivory for bridge saddles. I will happily swap my BlueChip pick for one made from the back of an endangered sea turtle. Luddittes never win.

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  26. #119
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    Default Re: Is the electric guitar dying, taking Gibson and others with i

    Quote Originally Posted by sblock View Post
    There are always some folks who don't approve of new things, convinced that "we don't make 'em like we used to" and that older is better, no matter what the subject of discussion. But newer BMWs are more reliable cars. Their power trains last longer. They are vastly safer. They get better gas mileage, and they pollute less.

    Have you ever driven a car from that era, complete with manual transmission, and without cupholders and fancy computerised subsystems? Or tried to repair one from the recent era? Or tried to buy a car with the "options" you prefer, and minus the bits that are forced on us by the regulatory state?

    So you really have to define exactly what you mean by "better", before you make broad claims of superiority! Moreover, many of us feel that EPA regulations are good things for our environment. Getting rid of the lead in gasoline was one of those. Next, digital recording is not inferior to analog recording. It is true that lower sampling rates and bit-sizes on some recorded music that is sold is inferior, but high-quality digital "master-level" recordings capture every bit as a much -- and more! -- than old analog recordings, and they are comparatively immune to hiss, pop, degradation, and various nonlinear distortions.

    Again, personal preferences are subsumed by your worship of the new shiny object. Still, many people much prefer the inferior products of an earlier time. Exposure to these things over time is necessary inorder to understand what has been altered, not always for the better.

    And just think how much better our telephones are today than they were in the 1970s!

    Landlines have their own power supply. When my fancy cable-type phone goes suddenly quiet, the landline will get my call through to 911. I can get through life without dealing with the constant distraction of a digital addictive device, unlike most of the people I see, wandering around with their heads down in their phones while walking, driving, or gathered in groups who are ignoring everything around them while fixated on some shiny object.

    Fortunately, mandolins use, for the most part, non-CITES woods and parts (maple, spruce, and some types of ebony and rosewood that are still available for use). Yes, those regulations have become a pain in the you-know-what for some instrument makers, because they were designed to stop a much larger and more damaging trade in furniture and other goods that dominate those markets. The instrument problems are a nasty form of "collateral damage" associated with laws that are a bit too ham-fisted. That said, those laws were designed to protect elephants from being slaughtered (for ivory), and Brazilian hardwood from being devastated (Brazilian rosewood), and so on. Railing on against them is not helpful. But I agree that these laws could use some tweaking in order to ease some of the restrictions placed on luthiers and traveling musicians. That said, I am fully supportive of a ban in the ivory trade!

    I'm aware of a large number of ivory objects from the days when they were perfectly legal being seized and destroyed by the forces of Correctness. Instead of a rational approach, slash and burn is the method. Works as well as it does in agriculture, namely not so well.

    The "good old days" never really existed: this is pretty much a nostalgic fantasy, sorry. Old technology, in general (with rare exceptions), is not superior to new technology. And rolling back regulations to the 1970's is not going to happen. And no one is going to go back to analog recording, 1970's cars -- or use elephant ivory for bridge saddles. I will happily swap my BlueChip pick for one made from the back of an endangered sea turtle. Luddittes never win.

    You lost me there with the tortoises and Luddites. TS is old school. Was that sarcasm, possibly?
    Looks like we may have to agree to disagree on some points. Anyway, hang in there for another couple decades, and let me know if you've shifted your stance somewhat.

  27. #120
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    Default Re: Is the electric guitar dying, taking Gibson and others with i

    Quote Originally Posted by Denny Gies View Post
    Take a listen to Jason Isbell and you will answer this question with a resounding "NO".
    Agree wholeheartedly! Going to see him with the 400 unit in September...very much looking forward to it!!
    Chuck

  28. #121
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    Default Re: Is the electric guitar dying, taking Gibson and others with i

    Quote Originally Posted by your_diamond View Post
    I can't wait until the market crashes & I can buy my 1960 P Bass & my 1924 L-4 & my 1956 Les Paul Special
    back for pennies on the dollar
    I have to revise my own thinking (often). There is a natural ebb & flow to most any market. Like when the model A Fords lost value because the buyers who were young, when those cars were new were dying off... but another type of buyer resurrected the price of those model cars. I suspect that will happen with guitars, too... but not before there were a few companies that paid the price for overexpanding at the wrong time.

  29. #122

    Default Re: Is the electric guitar dying, taking Gibson and others with i

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob A View Post
    I'd absolutely LOVE a BMW 2002 from the 1970s. Government will not permit their consttruction/sale, thanks to the EPA regs. The newer the Beemers get, the more ammoying bells and whistles they install; cupholders, air bags, computer modules to control everything from electric windows to windshield wipers. The Ultimate Driving Experience is a thing of the past.

    Same thing with analog vs digital recording, effects, and so forth. We've lost a good deal of good stuff in the name of "improvements" which restrict the marketplace and add cost. (I understand vinyl records are making a comeback, BTW.)

    Got an instrument with an ivory bridge, or rosewood, or ebony? Soon you'll be forbidden to sell it, unless you can prove the sourceing. Remember the Feds raiding Gibson a few years ago?
    wow ....not sure this is my reality at all.

    i have a 69 E jag, its , OLD, tough to keep up, unsafe (no , that's an understatement ,actually a death trap in an accident) , and worst, ENGLISH in its mechanical temperament. Hot too. Other than its looks, i have no idea why i keep it. I no longer love tinkering with it. I don't have enough life left to waste a day changing the oil, figuring out a fuel pump issue, etc

    i have a brand new BMW 535, pretty fast, reliable, comfortable, safe, much better than my old 1972 , 2002, no comparison. not a jot. other than fond memories. that BMW 2002ti was really bad in the snow, too. got a saab, 4 on the tree.

    Gibson was raided because they knowingly violated the law regarding importing fretboards that were not cut to shape abroad, as is required. Henrys rantings on this were, political. Read the online info from the justice dept and the findings and nature of the violations. I have little sympathy for those , including large companies who have legal advice and who don't comply with the law.

    FWIW, i know from first hand experience with banking and defense industry client defalcation issues, the Feds raid anytime they wish to preserve records and computer info which will provide evidence of non-compliance. Dealt with this as a lawyer back in the mid 80's. BTW, they do the same if you have drugs in your car, just stop you , and take the car. Nothing new.

    as for EPA, having been in unregulated Katmandu, where the air is so thick with emissions and smog it looks like London fog at night, I think some regs are a very very good thing. so do my lungs.

    I like elephants, alive.

    we seem to draw different facts, and conclusions.
    we certainly think differently.

    the world is changing, more info is available.
    more people than ever.

    things cannot stay the same, and have the same outcomes as in the past.

    I think we grew up about the same time. I appreciate many older things, but, I actually do think we are evolving, for the better. tech is part of that. Not for its own sake, but, because it can save time and money.

    one things for sure, my gibsons and martins from the late 60s and early seventies don't hold a candle to the current production and sound quality, although they look neater.

    however, I will agree, Levis aren't the same..............
    Last edited by stevedenver; Jul-24-2017 at 2:44pm.

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  31. #123
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    Default Re: Is the electric guitar dying, taking Gibson and others with i

    Lets be careful not to get far afield into politics and trample the Guidelines.
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    Default Re: Is the electric guitar dying, taking Gibson and others with i

    Agree. This just ventured too far into political chatter. We'll tolerate no more.

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    Default Re: Is the electric guitar dying, taking Gibson and others with i

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandolin Cafe View Post
    Agree. This just ventured too far into political chatter. We'll tolerate no more.
    ......and it's not even mandolin-related.
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