Celtic Mandolin?

[Spock89]

While youtubing I came across this video:

https://youtu.be/50uaDkE_NDo

Thing sounds incredible.. tone by the bucket fulls.
I loved it.

And after watching that video I couldnt help but wonder about how much a "Celtic" mandolin runs compared to the the usual A and F style mandos. Why hadnt I seen any of these for sale yet? Its clearly a bigger bodied instrument which I imagine is whats producing the more distinct and well rounded tones.

Unfortunately I was unable to find any "Celtic" mandolins anywhere. I went to his website to see what he charges(probably more than I want to spend for a beginner mando. And not to mention I'd be extremely reluctant to spend any amount of money on what seems to be a guy that makes instruments at home as a hobby without checking it out in person) but no info on there either. So.. is it simply called something else or what? Or just a mostly non-existent design anymore?

[JeffD]

A "celtic" mandolin is a distinction made NKForster. Info.

In general "celtic" music can be played on any mandolin. But to my tastes there are certain mandolins that do "fit" better in traditional Irish music, and they are described in the article. Mandolins made by Forster, Stefan Sobell, Joe Foley, Fylde, and many others, really have a cool sound that I love in Irish and Scottish music. Depending, not so much fit in bluegrass or Americana.

These are all subtleties that with which not everyone agrees.

I have played a Gibson A2 at many many an Irish session with great results, only once being asked to contribute some Jimmy Rogers because of the classic Gibson arch top sound.

The point is, though, I am not sure there would be universal agreement, or even recognition of a "celtic" mandolin, except that it might be particularly not "bluegrassy".

Brings up a good point, however - it might make sense in your quest for a first mandolin to see what kind of music you are particularly interested in pursuing.

Having fun yet?

[red7flag]

I have a Sobell type mandola being made by Lawrence Nyberg. He is great to work with, great looking and sounding instruments, and very fairly priced.

[Spock89]

Brings up a good point, however - it might make sense in your quest for a first mandolin to see what kind of music you are particularly interested in pursuing.

Having fun yet?

I have pondered that myself. And when I go and listen to see what I really want to dive into... I find myself really wanting to do all of it. I do have more of soft spot for Celtic/Irish tunes I think. But I really love the less uniform, fast picking, "from the heart" feel that bluegrass mandolin has. I think it would be cool to whip out a couple of medieval style waltzes every once in a while too lol.

[Spock89]

I have a Sobell type mandola being made by Lawrence Nyberg. He is great to work with, great looking and sounding instruments, and very fairly priced.

Is this person associated with NK Forester? Or just recommending to possibly commission a build from?

[Spock89]

Also is Forester a reputable and good luthier? Do their instruments play as well as they sound?

[Billy Packard]

Humm...

This looks like...

1. A REALLY, really big mandolin,

2. A diminutive, hot pickin man,

3. A combo of the two?

If the player is in the region of 5'8' to 6' that 'mandolin' is huge, bigger than your average mandola.

Very nice picking, I'm not a pursuer of this style of music but I WAS charmed none-the-less.



Billy

billypackardmandolin.com

[foldedpath]

I have pondered that myself. And when I go and listen to see what I really want to dive into... I find myself really wanting to do all of it. I do have more of soft spot for Celtic/Irish tunes I think. But I really love the less uniform, fast picking, "from the heart" feel that bluegrass mandolin has. I think it would be cool to whip out a couple of medieval style waltzes every once in a while too lol.

There is no such thing as a "Celtic mandolin" except from a marketing angle. Many different types of mandolins have been used successfully in this music. It's just personal taste for what type you want to use.

One of the neat things about Irish and Scottish sessions, is that unlike some other genres (cough, Bluegrass), nobody cares what kind of mandolin you play, as long as you can can play the tunes. I play an F-Style archtop mandolin based on the Gibson design, and I haven't been kicked out of an Irish or Scottish session yet.

Others may prefer something Sobell-derived, or a flattop. Whatever floats your boat. It's the music that matters, and how well you can play it.

[Jill McAuley]

Also is Forester a reputable and good luthier? Do their instruments play as well as they sound?

FYI It's Forster, not Forester. Nigel Forster is an extremely reputable luthier and a member here at the Cafe as well. What gives you the impression that he is a "hobby luthier"? It sounds like you've seen his website, chock full of images of the gorgeous instruments he makes - does that really look like the handiwork of a "hobbyist"?

[Dagger Gordon]

NK Forster (Nigel) is certainly not a hobbyist, and you should read his blogs and watch the videos.
Some very interesting thoughts and extremely impressive instruments.

[Nick Gellie]

This Springwell mandolin along the lines of a Celtic mandolin based on a Sobell design is equally as good:

https://vimeo.com/123505247

It is made by Rory Dowling of Taran Guitars in Scotland.

[Shelagh Moore]

Springwell +1

[Spock89]

FYI It's Forster, not Forester. Nigel Forster is an extremely reputable luthier and a member here at the Cafe as well. What gives you the impression that he is a "hobby luthier"? It sounds like you've seen his website, chock full of images of the gorgeous instruments he makes - does that really look like the handiwork of a "hobbyist"?

That a hot button or what? Well, I discovered the video.. the youtube channel is amateur at best. Certainly not videos posted by a successful company hiring people to make professional quality marketing vids. That for me was the first indication that "Forster" is possibly just a hobbyist. The website also fairly low in quality compared to modern standards(2nd indication).. with ZERO instruments for sale(3rd indication obviously not a company capable of any kind of mass production.) And 4th the gentleman playing in that vid is an awesome picker.. but certainly not a salesman or marketing professional. He looks absolutely bored to death with that instrument... might help sell it if he looked like he half ass enjoyed it lol. I mean seriously.. he looks like he is going out of his way to look absolutely bored to death with it. All of that is what made me wonder if this person could be just a hobbyist in his garage. Just because someone has some pretty pictures on a website and a couple youtube vids it doesnt indicate that they are professional, trustworthy, or even good in every way at what they do. So to someone new to the industry like myself whom has lived long enough to learn not to trust every website and Joe blow on the internet... Forsters setup comes off as questionable. And sure the pictures of those instruments are all beautiful.. but beauty means squat if an instrument plays or sounds bad.

Also I'd like to add that wondering if someone is a hobbyist is far from an insult as you seem to have taken it. I know and have met plenty of hobbyists that put professionals in all kinds of different areas to absolute shame. The skill of a hobbyist can range from absolute horrid beginner.. to absolutley masterful in every way. I certainly did not and have not meant to insult Forster or his work in any way. Only meant to be a person with enough brains to question the unknown before screaming "Shut up and take my money!" Lol.

[Spock89]

This Springwell mandolin along the lines of a Celtic mandolin based on a Sobell design is equally as good:

https://vimeo.com/123505247

It is made by Rory Dowling of Taran Guitars in Scotland.

Thanks! I'll check them out.

[Spock89]

NK Forster (Nigel) is certainly not a hobbyist, and you should read his blogs and watch the videos.
Some very interesting thoughts and extremely impressive instruments.

So it seems lol.

I'll definitely start checking into his blogs and keep an eye on his channel.

[Dagger Gordon]

Well, I discovered the video.. the youtube channel is amateur at best. Certainly not videos posted by a successful company hiring people to make professional quality marketing vids.

Yes I suppose you could say the videos are not necessarily 'professional quality marketing vids' but hey, they're quite effective - as your own experience would seem to confirm.

"While youtubing I came across this video:

https://youtu.be/50uaDkE_NDo

Thing sounds incredible.. tone by the bucket fulls.
I loved it. "



Actually I find Nigel's own very droll delivery in his North-East of England accent and rather amusing manner to be very entertaining. Check out him talking about a new bouzouki he made, including himself having a go at a Boney M song!
In among all his rather jokey presentation it's clear that there is a serious mind at work here.

https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/s...hlight=forster

[liestman]

Nigel is definitely not a company with ability to mass produce. He's one guy. No instruments currently for sale because they are all made to order and when one does come available, it is gone quickly. I see why you would be leary. Forster and Taran (Dowling) are very similar and both are masterful. Lastly, it seems to be the norm that we who play this music look bored to tears and never smile - no idea why that is but it seems universally true! LOL

[Bertram Henze]

I'd be extremely reluctant to spend any amount of money on what seems to be a guy that makes instruments at home as a hobby without checking it out in person...

There are quite a few people who spend huge amounts of money for high quality instruments made by some lone men who practically live in their workshops, respectively. Many of them check out in person, but you're not guaranteed to lose the homely impression that way.
Our modern thinking is primed with automated processes that produce reliably constant ISO9000 results, and so we have lost the belief in individual skills. Time to think again.

[JeffD]

There is no such thing as a "Celtic mandolin" except from a marketing angle. ...One of the neat things about Irish and Scottish sessions, is that unlike some other genres, nobody cares what kind of mandolin you play, as long as you can can play the tunes. .... It's the music that matters, and how well you can play it.

True and the true-er the better-er.

[JeffD]

NK Forster (Nigel) is certainly not a hobbyist, ... Some very interesting thoughts and extremely impressive instruments.

Oh my goodness yes.

[Jill McAuley]

That a hot button or what? Well, I discovered the video.. the youtube channel is amateur at best. Certainly not videos posted by a successful company hiring people to make professional quality marketing vids. That for me was the first indication that "Forster" is possibly just a hobbyist. The website also fairly low in quality compared to modern standards(2nd indication).. with ZERO instruments for sale(3rd indication obviously not a company capable of any kind of mass production.) And 4th the gentleman playing in that vid is an awesome picker.. but certainly not a salesman or marketing professional. He looks absolutely bored to death with that instrument... might help sell it if he looked like he half ass enjoyed it lol. I mean seriously.. he looks like he is going out of his way to look absolutely bored to death with it. All of that is what made me wonder if this person could be just a hobbyist in his garage. Just because someone has some pretty pictures on a website and a couple youtube vids it doesnt indicate that they are professional, trustworthy, or even good in every way at what they do. So to someone new to the industry like myself whom has lived long enough to learn not to trust every website and Joe blow on the internet... Forsters setup comes off as questionable. And sure the pictures of those instruments are all beautiful.. but beauty means squat if an instrument plays or sounds bad.

Also I'd like to add that wondering if someone is a hobbyist is far from an insult as you seem to have taken it. I know and have met plenty of hobbyists that put professionals in all kinds of different areas to absolute shame. The skill of a hobbyist can range from absolute horrid beginner.. to absolutley masterful in every way. I certainly did not and have not meant to insult Forster or his work in any way. Only meant to be a person with enough brains to question the unknown before screaming "Shut up and take my money!" Lol.

Nigel doesn't have instruments for sale on the website (though occasionally on his blog he'll alert folks to an instrument that is available) because they are made to order and he has something like a two year wait list. You're new here and you're making off hand comments regarding a respected member of this forum, so don't be surprised when folks who've been here for awhile jump in to provide actual information regarding the luthier in question. I'm sure Nigel isn't losing any sleep or business for that matter, because Spock89 doesn't think his website or videos look "professional".

[MichaelW]

Certainly a very fine sounding instrument. As to what makes it a 'Celtic mandolin' you'd have to ask the maker.

I actually think Nigel's website and videos are pretty slick compared to those of many of luthiers. They are generally more interested in working with wood than computers

Don't be put off by him being a small scale, one man operation. His instruments have a good reputation and certainly look and sound the part. I haven't had the opportunity to play one myself though.

[JeffD]

I have pondered that myself. And when I go and listen to see what I really want to dive into....

So, another suggestion..

If you are not (yet) addicted to bluegrass, you might consider getting a flat top mandolin. Flatties are great for everything, seriously, but they do not have that bluegrass arch top Gibsonny sound that the As and the Fs have. The deal is that arch tops tend to cost a bit more, or the other way, you can often get better quality for the same price by going with a flat top. For the price of an entry level arch top F style you can get a really nice flat top, excellent build, excellent woods, great sound and playability, and will make you happy for the rest of your life. (Until the day you buy an F style arch top, but by then you will have the money to get a fine one.)

As I said, the only compromise is that the flattie does not have that bluegrassy voice. So if you were a hardcore bluegrasser I would perhaps not steer you his way.

When it comes to Celtic, or certain Old Time, or Medieval/Renaissance, I actually prefer a great flattie over an arch top. But folks argue this stuff back and forth all the time.

[JeffD]

If you are going for an arch top, would be better to get a carved arch. IMO, FYI.

[Al Trujillo]

That Forster sure sounds sweet! And he plays it well.