Celtic Mandolin?

[noah finn]

Nigels session king tenor guitars are outstanding instruments. Quality through and through.

[Gary Leonard]

A mandolin typically can't cut through a lively session, though that depends on who is playing and what they are playing. The Irish bouzouki or tenor banjo seem to be more accepted. You can use any oval hole mandolin to learn celtic tunes on, then if it is for you, expand from there. Any Forster instrument should be an instrument to keep for life.

[red7flag]

While not strictly a "Celtic" mandolin the Sobell type really create a sound that captures that spirit. There are a number of makers from that luthier school. If you are really patient, Stefan Sobell is still making instruments. They are marvelous. Others from that school that I have looked into and would buy are NK Forster, Fylde and Nyberg. I have had contact with all and heard their instruments. All are small shop luthiers putting out superior products. All appear to be great people and passionate in their art. I am sure there are more out there, but these four I feel very confident in and would order a product from with no hesitation.

[liestman]

To me, Sobell pretty much started the "Celtic" mandolin style. Many of the more recent makers, at least those that make arched top instruments, are clearly influenced strongly by his work and his sound, including Forster and Taran (Rory Dowling).

[Dagger Gordon]

To me, Sobell pretty much started the "Celtic" mandolin style. Many of the more recent makers, at least those that make arched top instruments, are clearly influenced strongly by his work and his sound, including Forster and Taran (Rory Dowling).

Nigel actually worked for Sobell for many years. But he has developed his own ideas.

"Apart from two years (1990-1992), I trained under English guitar maker Stefan Sobell from 1988 until late 2003. We made a lot of fine instruments together.
My own business began in Newcastle, England in 2004."

I have two Sobell instruments - a 10 string mandolin and an octave mandolin. They're still VERY hard to beat.
But I also have a Collings MT which I play a lot.
You don't have to have a 'Celtic' style mandolin to play Celtic music.

[Ausdoerrt]

I'd say any mandolin you play "Celtic" music on automatically becomes a "Celtic" mandolin...

Not to mention mandolin is really one of the newcomers to the tradition.

[Narayan Kersak]

I'm sure that is a beautiful mandolin and probably sounds great in person, but you got to consider how it was recorded. You know top end equipment and possible eq-ing was involved? Maybe? Also, what is your goal with a Celtic Mandolin? To play at home by yourself? To play in a band that mics your mando, or to play in a session? I'd bet that you couldn't really here that mandolin in a live session? Maybe the player on the video could comment on that? It SOUNDS BEAUTIFUL in the recording I agree. But playing a lot in sessions and bands, practicality is something to consider, and where it will be used.

I'd go for a flat top any day for a mandolin. They are rich and resonant. Andrew Mowry made me the two point you see under my name. It's a flat top and I've never heard or played a better "Celtic" mandolin yet. And I have played a few of the ones most people list.

Either way, before you commit to a "Celtic" mandolin, try to actually play one before buying and consider where you will be using it.

For example in smaller sessions, for recording and for bands where I have amplification I use my Mowry. When I'm at a session, I either use a tenor banjo or the octave you see in this video... https://youtu.be/MFitCkvRTvY

It was not recorded with professional gear, the sound is just from the camera... so this is an example of how actual sound doesn't always translate, but this puppy is LOUD and can cut through a session of at least 8-9 players, on melody. And when I'm at home or playing with a fiddler, I can play quietly and the sweet resonance comes out... although it is an arch top.

[Bertram Henze]

I'd say any mandolin you play "Celtic" music on automatically becomes a "Celtic" mandolin...

Every instrument that becomes "Celtic" that way seems to have some slight modification done either to it or to its playing technique. There is the Irish harmonica with its altered tuning, the famous Irish tenor banjo, or the ex-violin (now fiddle). None goes in unscathed.

The Celtic mandolin in question probably had its barking chop surgically removed.

[Narayan Kersak]

PS... I recently played a $250 washburn bowlback that had a sweet big sound like the one on the video. If I had had $250 laying around I would've got it and played it at the session! It would've then been a "Celtic" Mandolin!

[JeffD]

PS... I recently played a $250 washburn bowlback that had a sweet big sound like the one on the video. If I had had $250 laying around I would've got it and played it at the session! It would've then been a "Celtic" Mandolin!

Yes, a good bowlback can work well in a session.

[foldedpath]

Every instrument that becomes "Celtic" that way seems to have some slight modification done either to it or to its playing technique. There is the Irish harmonica with its altered tuning, the famous Irish tenor banjo, or the ex-violin (now fiddle). None goes in unscathed.

The Celtic mandolin in question probably had its barking chop surgically removed.

I dunno, I've been playing Irish/Scottish/Cape Breton music on my Lebeda F-style mandolin for about 10 years now, with no modifications. Well, it does have a redwood top, so I guess that makes it non-canon for Bluegrass. Does that make it Celtic? Maybe...

My OM is an F-style Weber with the scroll and pointy bits, but it does have the Weber "Celtic Knot" inlay on the headstock. So that one's definitely a Celtic mandolin. Says so, right on the headstock.

[nkforster]

Some of you may well have read through the whole article I wrote about all this. The article is HERE.

My feeling is the term "Celtic" mandolin is very much a marketing term. Of course you can play any music on almost any instrument.

When I started making mandolins on my own, the best ones I felt were my "A" Models. They were superb for "Celtic" music. But what I noticed was people didn't order them as much as they did my "Celtic" looking ones.



It's much easier to sell people things they actually want, and the people who contacted me generally wanted a cut price Sobell knock-off, and pretty obviously, I was the man to go to given my history. For a while I was happy to oblige, now others are doing similar looking stuff for very little money so I would certainly reccomend those looking for a bargain to contact those makers.

But the last couple of years I've been working on what I feel is a better "Celtic" mandolin. And I think I've done it with my Celtic F. When designing it I kept a number of things in mind - it had to look a certain way in order to be in line with what people wanted. But what's going on under the bonnet is rather different from how Stefan carved and braced the tops when I worked for him. The arching and bracing has more to do with more traditional American mandolins. That way i get the sound I like and the look that people expect. The results you can hear in the videos.



Ian Stephenson is an excellent sound engineer for sure, but one of the reasons he still uses my work and makes all these videos is my stuff is very easy to record - it's hard not to get a good sound. He does next to no EQ on the recording other than occasionally adding a little room reverb and uses very similar mic placements for every instrument.





The interesting thing to me about those two videos is how different the mandolin sounds in the hands of Ian compared to Tom. The mandolin is just a tool. In the end it's down to the musician. Both these musicians have superb tecnique and a great touch, and they make the same instrument, with the same mic set up sound very different.

Not too shabby for a bunch of hobbyists eh?

Nigel
www.nkforsterguitars.com

[Bertram Henze]

When I started making mandolins on my own, the best ones I felt were my "A" Models. They were superb for "Celtic" music. But what I noticed was people didn't order them as much as they did my "Celtic" looking ones.

I must say I prefer the looks of that one because it's a masterpiece of design on its own and as such heralds pride and freedom - I appreciate that.

I am half certain what Celtic sound is supposed to be, because the music defines that.

But I am totally at a loss what Celtic looks should be, apart from fuzzy precedence by modern builders whose instrument styles gravitated towards a certain stage standard. This mystery is equivalent to the one why Bluegrass mandolins have to have a scroll.
One guess would be that it is a kind of session/jam camouflage uniform for your playing skills, because everybody would expect exceptional playing to come with exceptional looks.

[nkforster]

I must say I prefer the looks of that one because it's a masterpiece of design on its own and as such heralds pride and freedom - I appreciate that.

I am half certain what Celtic sound is supposed to be, because the music defines that.

But I am totally at a loss what Celtic looks should be, apart from fuzzy precedence by modern builders whose instrument styles gravitated towards a certain stage standard. This mystery is equivalent to the one why Bluegrass mandolins have to have a scroll.
One guess would be that it is a kind of session/jam camouflage uniform for your playing skills, because everybody would expect exceptional playing to come with exceptional looks.

I loved the look of that A model too, but very few people ordered them. Oh well. As for how to define the "Celtic" look, it's easy - here is a quote from the article I mentioned:

A “Celtic" mandolin tends to be shaped rather like an onion as opposed to American mandolins which are more like a shallot.

There you go!

Nigel
www.nkforsterguitars.com

[Bertram Henze]

...onion...shallot.

While those vegetables describe shapes, they do not really represent different cultures as such.
How about these similar shapes that do?

[Mandobart]

.... the youtube channel is amateur at best. Certainly not videos posted by a successful company hiring people to make professional quality marketing vids. That for me was the first indication that "Forster" is possibly just a hobbyist. The website also fairly low in quality compared to modern standards(2nd indication).. with ZERO instruments for sale(3rd indication obviously not a company capable of any kind of mass production.) And 4th the gentleman playing in that vid is an awesome picker.. but certainly not a salesman or marketing professional. He looks absolutely bored to death with that instrument... might help sell it if he looked like he half ass enjoyed it lol. I mean seriously.. he looks like he is going out of his way to look absolutely bored to death with it. All of that is what made me wonder if this person could be just a hobbyist in his garage. Just because someone has some pretty pictures on a website and a couple youtube vids it doesnt indicate that they are professional, trustworthy, or even good in every way at what they do. So to someone new to the industry like myself whom has lived long enough to learn not to trust every website and Joe blow on the internet... Forsters setup comes off as questionable. And sure the pictures of those instruments are all beautiful.. but beauty means squat if an instrument plays or sounds bad.....

You may consider spending a little time/effort learning about the top luthiers. They do not have overseas factories churning out spec instruments. Their reputation results in a waiting list that may run to years. They are artisans, not necessarily marketing or video production specialists. The mando world isn't what most consumers have been conditioned to expect.