Did Beethoven own a tater bug?

[Jacqke]

I just posted this picture to Wikipedia, from Philip J. Bone's book, The Guitar and the Mandolin. Is it bad light in a bad photo, is it me, or does that mandolin have the two-tone pattern of a tater-bug mandolin?

[DavidKOS]

Yes it looks like alternate color ribs; it's also a 6 string MIlanese mandolin.

Milanese mandolin:

[Joseph Baker]

"it's also a 6 string MIlanese mandolin"

How is it tuned?

Joseph Baker

[fscotte]

I wanna see a photo of Beethoven holding a mandolin. Otherwise, it didn't happen...

[Jeff Mando]

I must admit the title gave me a chuckle. Now, if you told me Mama June owned a tater bug, I might be inclined to believe that......

[DavidKOS]

"it's also a 6 string MIlanese mandolin"

How is it tuned?

Joseph Baker

http://www.crane.gr.jp/CRANE_Strings...essMandoE.html

"Milanese mandolin, a 6 single stringed one, was popular in Italy. It had a long history and seemed to have already existed in late 1600. Antonio Monzino of Milan born in 1725 was a renowned maker of Milanese mandolins for 6 generations and some said that he is the one who invented this mandolin. In late 19th century, Cassino Co. in Italy introduced a 6 course 12 metal string mandolin and Oscar Schmidt and others had built them. But both single and double stringed 6 course mandolins disappeared from the musical scene soon afterwards. By the way, 12 string mandolins which has been introduced in early 20th century often adopt four courses of 3 strings each.

The following might be an extra, but all the enthusiasts and owners of Milanese 6 string mandolins (if there is any) should pay close attention.

Originally, gut strings are used for treble 3 strings, iron wire wound silk string for bass 3 strings, and they are tuned to (g-b- e'-a'-d"-g"). I will list a selection of strings that can be easily obtained, although iron wire wound silk strings are still distributed today. My impression while repairing one of these mandolin is that it did not sound well if gut string are used on 1st though 5th. I should rather say that it sound earthy instead of sounding bright or flashy. The impression may be enforced further when one compares it with modern steel stringed mandolins. It sounded better with fluorocarbon strings, but one need to pay attention on string selections.


A=440Hz L=305mm
2.0kg in average, except for 2.5kg on 1st.
g-b-e'-a'-d"-g" normal tuning

1st g2 : Gut 0.324mm, nylon 0.36mm, or fluorocarbon 0.277mm (3/2.5 gauge)
2nd d2 : Gut 0.40/0.36mm, nylon 0.44/0.42mm, or fluorocarbon 0.33mm (4 gauge)
3rd a1 : Gut 0.52mm, nylon 0.58mm, or fluorocarbon 0.44mm (7 gauge)
4th e1 : Gut 0.70mm, nylon 0.76mm, or fluorocarbon 0.57/0.62mm (12/14 gauge)
5th b : Gut 0.94mm, metal wound VN 5092, nylon 1.04mm, or fluorocarbon 0.79mm (22/24 gauge)
6th g : Gut 1.16mm or metal wound VN5116"

It seems to be tuned g–b–e′–a′–d″–g″ , mostly 4ths. Very similar to the modern bandurria/laud tuning.

[MollyMarieMandolin]

I just posted this picture to Wikipedia, from Philip J. Bone's book, The Guitar and the Mandolin. Is it bad light in a bad photo, is it me, or does that mandolin have the two-tone pattern of a tater-bug mandolin?

I've admitted to myself I'm enough of a nerd I should edit Wikipedia now and then lol. I'm curious how you got around to posting a picture.

[allenhopkins]

The "two-tone pattern" mentioned is often caused by using alternate ribs of different woods, the lighter-colored one maple, the darker either rosewood or mahogany. I have a Washburn bowl-back mandola with alternating maple and rosewood ribs.

This construction seems fairly common among US-made bowl-back instruments from the early 20th century.

[Capt. E]

As far as we can tell, Beethoven was instructed in Violin, Viola and keyboard (organ, harpsichord, piano). No evidence I know of that he played anything else.

[Jim Garber]

Read here on Marilynn Mair's site for background on these pieces: Beethoven’s Mandolin.

Also, some threads back when the classical section was on fire.

Beethoven's Mandolin Pieces

Historical mandolins and cultural preferences

[billkilpatrick]

Beethoven wrote some dance tunes without opus - here's two:

[Graham McDonald]

The photo in Bone's book is a bit odd in that it looks like a late 19th century Lombardic (or Milanese) mandolin that David posted the picture of. A Milanese mandolin of Beethoven's time could have been either six single or double courses, but that body shape in the photo does look more late 19th century. The other theory is that Beethoven and Hummel's music was written for the 4 string Cremonese mandolin which was tuned gade like a Neapolitan mandolin. although with four gut strings. The last link of Jim's post above, is fascinating and worthwhile reading, where several of the most expert people in the world on these instruments throw ideas back and forth over five pages of posts. The body shape of a Milenese or Cremonese is more likely to be something like these, but not necessarily. Both are from around 1800, and likely to be known in Austria.

[Jacqke]

I've admitted to myself I'm enough of a nerd I should edit Wikipedia now and then lol. I'm curious how you got around to posting a picture.

Well, start by understanding that anything you put up will probably be deleted. It is trial and error, with a lot of the latter. If you need help, just give me a shout.