Help with terrible sounding K&K Twin Mandolin Pickup

[Folkmusician.com]

so instead of adding treble exclusively when you EQ try pulling out from 500-1.2khz and cut everything below about 250hz. Remember high-pass everything. if you can

Agreed, cut instead of boost is the way to go, and much of the muddiness is from the low frequencies. The low G string on mandolin is 196hz). There is a little bit going on below that, but for the sake of cleaning up the mix within a live band, you almost always want to cut all of the instruments near their frequency ranges. If you are rolling off, vs. cutting, you can start a little higher. Also try to give the mandolin a little space by EQing the other instruments.

A great mix will give each instrument its own space. The last thing you want is all the instruments having a full wide tone. It will sound muddy.

Here is an example of how EQ might look:

[Billkwando]

Agreed, cut instead of boost is the way to go, and much of the muddiness is from the low frequencies. The low G string on mandolin is 196hz). There is a little bit going on below that, but for the sake of cleaning up the mix within a live band, you almost always want to cut all of the instruments near their frequency ranges. If you are rolling off, vs. cutting, you can start a little higher. Also try to give the mandolin a little space by EQing the other instruments.

A great mix will give each instrument its own space. The last thing you want is all the instruments having a full wide tone. It will sound muddy.

Here is an example of how EQ might look:

As someone who find EQ to be a total mystery (other than "use your ears and hope for the best") this is super helpful to me!

[lenf12]

[QUOTE=Folkmusician.com;1581816]A great mix will give each instrument its own space. The last thing you want is all the instruments having a full wide tone. It will sound muddy.

I wish more live sound "engineers" understood this concept...

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[Folkmusician.com]

As someone who find EQ to be a total mystery (other than "use your ears and hope for the best") this is super helpful to me!

The key concept here, is that individual instruments sacrifice for the good of the whole mix, and vocals come first. If you solo an instrument in a proper mix, it will tend to sound thin (and it is). But within the group it sounds great. This is not critical with a duet. A three piece band can put less effort into it as well, but as more instrument are added, it becomes crucial. Especially when you get multiple instruments that have major overlaps in frequencies. Say two guitars. If these are EQed to emphasize separate frequencies, it will sound much cleaner and professional.

I am with Len. I understand that most musicians, don't give this a whole lot of thought, but it is amazing how many Soundmen mostly ignore EQ as well.

Once EQ is conquered.... Dynamics are up next. Compressors are great when used tastefully/lightly. They can be set with a high threshold so it is just catching the peaks, more like a limiter and not sucking the dynamics out of acoustic instruments or becoming boomy. If your board has em, dig in.

[lenf12]

While this is all critical to playing "plugged in", much of what Robert says above can also be applied to open jams or playing song circles and around the campfire where there's no amplification. You are not using any EQ so you have to accept the sounds of each instrument as is, but dynamics are the primary ingredient that each player does have control of and can use to enhance the overall mix. Knowing when to lay back (during vocals) vs. playing out (when it's your turn), mandolins playing on the lower G and D strings vs. on the A and E strings, silence vs. playing constantly. All of the little dynamic tricks in the tool box can be used to get a satisfying acoustic mix if you are listening to the ensemble vs. listening to yourself. Play to the quietest instrument ("individual instruments sacrifice for the good of the mix" as Robert states above) and usually it's the guitar in an acoustic setting. Sorry for expanding the scope of this thread (OT?) but it seemed apropos.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[rfd]

...
I had the luthier who installed both K&Ks check out my guitar pickup to see what might be wrong. He could find nothing wrong with the installation or the wiring. He tried it again through his amp and it did not buzz/ sizzle, but it still sounds brittle. I'm about to pull my hair out, but instead, I think I will have that pickup taken out of that guitar. I probably should call K&K....

yep, either an improper transducer installation (MUST be in a proper location and use of a gel based high viscosity CYA glue), or a bad transducer (haven't had one from k&k yet, and i've long since lost count of the dozens i've installed over the years/decades).

[lflngpicker]

I owned this same Eastman mandolin and also had the same pickup in a Morris a4. The K &K mini is a very natural sounding pickup. I would suggest that it is the amplifier output that is your issue. If you have a decent acoustic amp, such as a Fishman Loudbox, it should sound great plugged straight in. Otherwise, you should get a direct box with EQ so that you can trim the bass and cut the mids a bit to bring out the woody tone of your mandolin. Don't get rid of that nice Eastman mandolin, in my humble assessment.

[Bill Kammerzell]

I have had builder installed K&K pickups, in a number of mandolins. Most recently a Breedlove Legacy OF. I think they have all sounded great. I use a Taylor V cable for on/off and volume control and I play into a Fender Acoustasonic 150 amp. This is as good a sound as I've ever gotten. I have added a K&K preamp to cut out a lot of pick noise, but all told this a is a great, amplified acoustic sound. I had a Fender Electric guitar amp, but did not like the sound at all. Acoustasonic is a really great model for acoustic instruments. May be whatever amp you're using. I'd look at that.