Lost my A-Style - how to replace it?

[Bigskyken]

While dinking around with a tenor banjo, a mandolin-playing neighbor asked if he could try my banjo. He brought his old Gold Tone mandolin over and we tried each other's instruments out. In his 80's, Duane was suffering from significant hearing loss, to the point where he was having a hard time hearing the mandolin notes he played. I instantly got sucked into playing the mandolin, so when he told me his plan was to sell his mandolin to get some cash to buy a tenor banjo, I bought his mandolin on the spot! Today we were visiting and he said that his hearing had improved greatly and he was once again wanting to play the mandolin. As I travel a lot, he asked me to keep an eye out for a ~$200 bargain on a decent A-style. Having just purchased an F-style myself, I offered to let him have his old mandolin back, to his delight.

There are a number of tunes that I feel sound better from the A-style mandolin, and because I suffer from mandoholism, I would like to replace it. I'd like to keep it in the $300-500 range, lightly used or new. I mostly play for my own enjoyment, but also cover the music at our church when our pianist is gone - so sound quality is pretty important. I will probably play some Christmas music at the homeless and women's and children's shelter and maybe play a bit at the local convalescent home.
But at the same time, I will never be playing on stage or in competitions.

I have only been at this long enough to be dangerous, so would like your thoughts and suggestions on which A-style to be on the lookout for. I am guessing there would be some Kentucky and Eastman options in reach at this budget, however I see a lot more used Michael Kelly and Ibanez mandolins in my part of the world. I have read that the MKs are not very consistent, and I haven't heard anything about the Ibanez models.

So, without making this a brand war (because we all have our favorites), what would you be trying to buy if you were in my shoes?

[roysboy]

IMO there is only one option in your price range and that would be the Kentucky 150 . This thing is an absolute steal for an all solid wood mando with bottom and volume to spare . And buy the toneguard .

[Ausdoerrt]

I'd buy the same mando I bought two years ago - The Loar 220. All solid and carved, great sound, but not so expensive/precious as to prevent me from bringing it for trips, picnics and busking.

Now we all know that brands are brands, and individual instruments are different. But. I've also tried an Eastman 505 and heard people play Kentuckys in the same price range, and I'd humbly suggest that my The Loar is better - both in terms of sound and playability.

FWIW, there are a few clips of me playing it on my band's channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMY...z0HvM2MNrCNnAA


Of course, as you get closer to the $500 mark, you start seeing other options in the "used" market. Also do keep in mind that the above only covers archtop, f-hole A-style mandos, archtop oval-holes and especially flatbacks are a completely different sound.

[pheffernan]

So, without making this a brand war (because we all have our favorites), what would you be trying to buy if you were in my shoes?

Were I in your position (and I have been) looking for a sub-$500 mandolin that I wouldn't be taking to a bluegrass jam, I'd be trying to buy an American flattop (and I have). They are typically made from all solid woods by small shops or independent builders here in the U.S., but because they are less labor intensive than archtops, they are more affordable as well. I love the Poe Scout that I currently own and lust after the Arches FT-O currently in the classifieds but also can recommend from personal experience Gypsy, Redline, Flatiron and Mid-Missouri (which became Big Muddy): https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/110484#110484

[fatt-dad]

Another vote for a flat-top. I remain very happy with my Flatiron 1N, which is very basic, only used (they no longer make them), and very rugged!

f-d

[Phil Goodson]

I don't see in your note whether the A-style mandolin had an oval hole or f holes. If you want to recover a similar sound, this might be a major consideration, regardless of which maker you choose.

[JeffD]

A third vote for a flat top. Sounds perfect for your application, you could likely get a quality instrument for not a lot of money, that you would be happy with for ever.

My flatties are in regular rotation. In fact I see my arch tops as the specialty instruments, for when I want that sound. The flatties are my grab and go.

[allenhopkins]

First, I'm confused by what "tunes sound better on an A-style mandolin." The only differences between A-models and F-models are the largely ornamental scroll and points on the latter. These have quite limited acoustic effect.

I'm guessing that the Gold Tone A-model had an oval soundhole -- as far as I know Gold Tone doesn't list an f-hole model. So what you want is another oval-hole mandolin, which would probably be an A-model since oval-hole F-models are uncommon and relatively pricey.

You have a choice of either carved-top (or pressed-top), vs. flat-top (or canted-top). The latter are less expensive, as a rule for instruments of equal acoustic quality. That's because carving the instrument's top adds manufacturing costs (although I'd speculate that heat-pressing doesn't).

As listed in Post #4 above, there are quite a few small-volume builders making good flat-tops. Dunno if you can get into your $300-500 range with them. You could, of course, consider buying another Gold Tone, Trinity College, or other decent Asian-import oval-hole, which would get you to where you were, before you returned your neighbor's mandolin. I'd probably look for a used Mid-Missouri/Big Muddy, if I could find one in that price range.

[colorado_al]

I'd keep an eye out for a used JBovier A5T, or a used or blem Eastman MD505

[Al Trujillo]

This just popped up in the Classifieds: https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/111329#111329

[Bigskyken]

First, I'm confused by what "tunes sound better on an A-style mandolin." The only differences between A-models and F-models are the largely ornamental scroll and points on the latter. These have quite limited acoustic effect.

Allen, while in theory you are correct, the sound my Breedlove F-style products is quite different (twangier, if that is a word) that the Gold Tone did. It was an oval hole, which may have contributed largely to what I heard.

[Bigskyken]

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate all your input and suggestions. Lots to consider and a couple new brands that I wasn't aware of to look into. My old A-style was an oval hole instrument, but I am curious as to how different the sound it between f-hole and oval hole mandolins within the same brand/quality category. I want something with a deeper tone and less twangy than my Breedlove f-style.

[JeffD]

The difference between the arch top oval hole and f hole is much greater then the difference between the difference between an F and an A body, all things equal. (The difference you heard between the Breedlove F and the Gold Tone has much more to do with other differences between the instruments than body type, like the shape of the sound holes as you mention.)

The difference between the sound of an A body and an F body are no more and often less than the difference between any two mandolins, A or F. There is no sound difference that can be consistently attributed to an F body or an A body.

F holes or oval holes do make a difference. Most arch top instruments with ff holes have what some described as a more percussive focused sound than the oval holes. Characteristics prized by chopping bluegrassers. A quip I heard is this: the audience reaction to a well played ff hole mandolin is "wow, what a great mandolin" - the audience reaction to a well played oval hole mandolin is "wow, what beautiful music".

Flat tops are a whole 'nuther thing. I have not seen or played very many f hole flatties, but I suspect there is not much difference between them.

[soliver]

Eastman MD 304 and 404 are both ovals that fit into that budget new. I have an MD 305 that I love!.. I also played a Kentucky 272 oval that sounded really nice once. ... Those are a couple of reasonable carved top options. I think you can't go wrong with a good flat top too...

I'm currently saving up for a Crystal Forest Pancake myself. ...just my 2 cents.

[Bigskyken]

So, I stumbled across a 1919 Gibson A-style, arch top, oval hole. The headstock has been recently refinished by Weber. She is obviously used, and I've not actually seen it in-person yet. It is priced at roughly 2X my budget, but if there is real historical value to this instrument that would preserve its value, then maybe i could swing it. Or would there potentially be too many things that might go wrong with something this old?

[fatt-dad]

I love my paddle head Gibson. Mine's a 1920, but about the same. Owned it for 35 years and it's been fine overall. Great mandolin!

f-d

[Bigskyken]

What's a ballpark value of one of these, F-D?

[allenhopkins]

Not quite sure, but I think you have a Gibson A, since there doesn't appear to be any headstock inlay. There are a lot of things "wrong" with it (notice the quotation marks): the pickguard's missing, resulting in a good deal of pick wear. The bridge has been replaced, and I think the tuners have too. (By the way, "A" refers to the model; there was an A, an A-1, A-2, A-3, and A-4, with more binding, fancier inlays and finishes, as the model number increased.)

I don't know what the seller's asking for it (twice your budget = $1K?), but Gibson A-models from pre-1920 (doesn't have a truss rod, does it?) are nice mandolins, if structurally sound. Obviously a "player's" instrument, not a collectible, since it's had a lot of wear, and has non-original parts. That said, if it's in decent repair and well-adjusted, it is a vintage Gibson and -- in my opinion -- could be a cut above the other instruments that have been suggested for consideration.

Any mandolin of that age should be thoroughly checked over by a trusty instrument tech before you buy it. Many old Gibsons exhibit top sinkage, sometimes caused by the large transverse brace below the soundhole either cracking or coming loose at one end. You'll find the neck is "beefier" than on a more modern instrument, and while lots of people (like me) really like the sound of old Gibson oval-holes, others don't.

I love old mandolins, and would consider this not only a good instrument to play, but as you indicate, a piece of history -- perhaps a century old, with lots of tales to tell. But get it checked out first, for sure. Thousands of these old Gibsons have survived and are playing today (my old F-2's pre-1910), but you need to make sure it's OK before you spend that kind of money.

[fatt-dad]

In full agreement with allanhopkins, if it's structurally sound and stays in tune with J74s and the case is okay, they are $800-$1,000 in private sale. As you go up in trim levels, the value increases. Basic A models without truss adjustable truss rods seem to be $1,500 in retail, but non-original parts reduce the price. Bet it still sounds nice though!

f-d

[Bertram Henze]

the pickguard's missing, resulting in a good deal of pick wear.

That pick wear seems to be in a strange place, to my eyes, quite near the bridge, not what you might call a sweet spot. Even for a planted pinky fingernail it would be strange. Whoever played that before, his hand posture must have been weird.

[jgravois]

It sounds like you're after an affordable oval hole, and in that case I strongly recommend the Kentucky KM-272. $374 at the Folk Musician (NFI). Here's a vid of mine:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BLRKZmbo1s

Eastman MD 304 and 404 are both ovals that fit into that budget new. I have an MD 305 that I love!.. I also played a Kentucky 272 oval that sounded really nice once. ... Those are a couple of reasonable carved top options. I think you can't go wrong with a good flat top too...

I'm currently saving up for a Crystal Forest Pancake myself. ...just my 2 cents.

[Eric Platt]

If the price is approximately 2x your budget, and if it sounds good, in my mind it's a good deal. But I have a bias for old Gibson A models. As my avatar shows. And as others have mentioned, it's a better instrument than the others mentioned so far. And I do have a The Loar LM-220 to compare.

As others have pointed out, there are changed parts on this instrument. Tuners, bridge and probably nut. Any idea if Weber did all the work? I ask because if so, then it's probably done correctly and you won't have to worry about it.

Otherwise, I'm in the camp of looking for a nice flat top US made mandolin.

[Mandoplumb]

Bigskyed, the question that I have is why has just the headstock been refinished and by Webber? This may be true but it sure raises questions in my mind. I would check that out before investing any money.

[EdHanrahan]

... 1919 Gibson A-style, arch top, oval hole. ... if there is real historical value to this instrument that would preserve its value, then maybe i could swing it.

Historical value, maybe. Musical value, definitely! My '17 A-1 just turned 100 and sings like a lark.

Surprisingly maybe, not a whole lot commonly goes wrong with these, although decades stored in a hot/cold attic can take its toll. As that one has a replacement adjustable bridge (originals were solid up until a year or three later, I think), neck angle shouldn't be an issue. Top sinkage can be an issue if braces have come loose, but that should be obvious and is fixable. Some are accused of having a "tubby" sound and maybe they do; I replaced the Gs with lighter strings to remedy that nicely. Probably a thicker neck than you're used to, but we are surprisingly adaptable creatures. If it speaks to you, you won't regret it.

Edit: Sorry! Most of my comments were already addressed above. That's what I get for posting before coffee.

[fatt-dad]

I will add: My A3 was stored in an attic when I got it. As a result, the back plate had come unglued, the neck warped and the transverse brace came unglued. I had all that fixed 30 years ago and it's remained fully playable since. So, the warning on structural review is very appropriate!!

Great mandolin though!

f-d