Play for free ...

[billkilpatrick]

No mando' content but it's related and might be of interest - could also be worked into a wicked little shame and blame song:

http://www.boredpanda.com/artists-wo...a/?page_numb=1

[Astro]

Musicians just have to learn to choose. Do you want to not get paid or not work ?

[Drew Egerton]

I struggle with this in our band sometimes. We all have real jobs so we are certainly not in it for the money, but I have grown tired of playing for free unless it is for a good charity event. One BBQ place in particular does offer a meal but that's it. Wouldn't be so bad if the folks that came to listed would use the tip jar, but they don't even with some gentle nudging.

Other places we've played we get anywhere from 50-300 bucks in tips depending on the crowd and venue.

For me, it's less about the actual money and more about feeling like we are appreciated and bringing a value to the venue.

[MikeZito]

Personally, I don't mind playing for free - just as long as I know that I am not being used. I have played in lots of little struggling coffee shops, theaters, local TV shows, events for the handicapped, etc. I know they are barely making enough to survive, so I just go, enjoy playing my songs, (I only do original music, so in a bar-band dominated town, any chance to play is a good thing); and get a little exposure and practice at the same time . . . however, when it comes to festivals, well established restaurants, etc. - I expect to see some green in my wallet at the end of the night.

[Eric C.]

We never play for free, as it really screws other bands that may/may not need the money. Nothing worse than your local region being saturated with play-for-free bands/musicians.

[Denny Gies]

I had no idea you could get paid for playing.

[Ausdoerrt]

Personally, I don't mind playing for free - just as long as I know that I am not being used.

Unfortunately, in most cases I've seen, it's just "cost-cutting" by the organizers, i.e. you are indeed being used. They wouldn't ask the company renting them stage equipment to do it for free, for example, but musicians are 'fair game'. Playing for free also usually comes with a lack of respect for your work, so that's another reason to pass on free gigs.

This only applies to for-profit ventures, of course. We do occasionally play free and/or "expenses covered" gigs, but only if it's an extremely cool gig or if it's for a good cause.

We never play for free, as it really screws other bands that may/may not need the money. Nothing worse than your local region being saturated with play-for-free bands/musicians.

Price dumping is the word. A really bad sort of word.

A good anti-dumping argument I've been using when someone tries to persuade me (for the millionth time) is: "We'll make more money and/or have more fun busking instead of playing your free gig."

[Willie Poole]

Bluegrass jobs used to be pretty easy to get in the D.C.. Maryland area but a lot of places now find that they can call it an "Open Mic" session and some bands play and don`t get any pay, and I guess that is OK to do it to get the exposure but after spending well over 5 grand for sound equipment and instruments I do not feel that my band should play a "freebie" unless it is for a real good cause to raise funds for a non-profit organization, when I play in a pub and they are charging 4-6 bucks for a beer I want some of that money...To play a three hour gig we sometime travel for an hour one way and need another hour to set up and tear down the system so we are really working for six or more hours and that usually means we are working for less that minimum wage when we do a show...It is hard to get bar owners to understand that so I usually try and stick with festivals and private parties and they usually feed us also...

Its a dog eat dog world out there...Willie

[Randi Gormley]

Our music-making seems to come in two sections: Irish sessions and gigs. With sessions, the question is whether the leader gets money or not -- none of the people in the session expect to get anything but free drinks (or food, depending). I've been at both types of sessions -- where the leader gets money and where they don't. But a session is generally in a well-established bar, the makeup and number of the musicians varies, it's all acoustic and nothing is actually "arranged" or set up except a table and armless chairs. That's one thing. But when our band is sent out to entertain -- hired by someone to perform music at a specific venue where we set up equipment, have a set list and also entertain, we charge. We'll make an exception if we're playing at one of the inner city schools, but if we're playing a school in an affluent district, we charge; we also charge high-end nursing homes but not, again, small places in bad neighborhoods (as it were). When the group started out, they were happy for "exposure," but we're mostly pretty experienced and competent these days and just don't play for free any more.

[CarlM]

Here is Gillian Welch's take on music for free. I have done this one with a singer friend at open mics. I am not sure she was aware of the irony.



And here is Joni Mitchell with the other side of the coin.

[allenhopkins]

Depends; I did two memorial events this past weekend, and didn't expect payment. On the other hand, I do a lot of work entertaining at seniors' facilities, and expect to get paid to do it. Others are glad to volunteer for such gigs, and I don't criticize them, but that's not my orientation.

"Good causes" are one thing, playing for a profit-making entity that just wants "something for nothing" is another. Open mic nights are the bane of many musicians; the host or the "feature" gets paid -- maybe -- no one else does.

On the other hand, two other musicians and I have been running a small acoustic concert series at a small-town library for seven years now, twice a month year-round, all on a volunteer basis, other than the one night a year we book ourselves as "features." It's a great experience, for sure, but I put in a 60-mile 'round trip every other Wednesday, plus setting up and taking down the room, acting as MC, all for the "love of it." Some of us are just gluttons for punishment, I guess.

[pops1]

I do both, been getting paid for 40+ years, but do a lot of free events too. Today we are playing a weekly jam at a friend's house who was a musician that was paralyzed in an auto accident a couple of years ago. We play there every week. We also do a monthly jam, it helps newer player to learn tunes, that is free. Friday is paid, Sat, music party, Sun paid. It changes all the time, but some things are worthwhile to share your gift and hard work.

[Polecat]

I’ve been playing music in public for around 35 years, sometimes been paid for it, sometimes not. Ironically, the two bands I was in that made the most money involved playing my least favorite genres of music and I soon left them.
We no longer live in a culture that intrinsically values music as a part of social life, and the musician’s role is not that which it has been throughout most of history, so I don’t think the "old rules" apply any more, and I don’t think the term "professional musician" is very helpful - musicians do and always have played for fun as well as for profit, sometimes both at the same time, sometimes only for one or the other. This is not generally true of surgeons, for example, or lawyers, to name just two "professions".
Personally, I would rather play for a pittance for 20 people who listen and respond than for "real money" for a couple of hundred who treat what I’m offering them like the wallpaper - it’s nice that it’s there but doesn’t really warrant much attention.

[catmandu2]

[QUOTE=allenhopkins;1577674]... 60-mile 'round trip every other Wednesday, plus setting up and taking down the room...[/QUOTE

One thing performers all know is the time and energy expenditures made. As Allen mentions and perhaps others: travel, set-up, tear down, etc is a significant portion of performing. I've changed my habits wrt performing over the past years. I perform solo and expunged hauling gear - wield loud acoustic instruments in backpacks so convenience is optimized - so've made it the luxury to give my music freely - have some standing invitations at local seniors' facilities to drop in (always seems to be a Friday morning for me). I consider this community service, and feel it's a wonderful privilege to be able to do it. My current band-mates, however, make long drives and pack the PA gear, so when I perform with them I defer to the group's pecuniary basis.

*I should say that I always mention to the management when I initially meet them why I do gratis, and explain the importance of making the gesture of offering compensation to others. The message gets across - and is often a priori to folks - that the music is of great value. Often compensation is offered.

[Beanzy]

I'll play for free at local folk clubs, one because they have a clear policy of alternating guest nights (paid professionals) and members nights (where people bring along songs and tunes to share)
The other one is just everyone in the community cobbling together a social life and the beer is about 1/2 the price of that in the pub with any profit going towards funding the Annual Folk Festival. So it's kind of putting the shoulder to the community wheel.
However our orchestra will not be playing at the festival as the comittee would not fund our professional leader's fee.
I don't mind in amateur situations, but there is a line where professionals need to be respected and paid accordingly.
The other orchestras I am involved in all pay subs to cover the normal rehearsals & we promote our own concerts to fund local music development initiatives. Similarly with the amateur theatre company. As for gigging or sessions in bars, not really my kind of thing unless someone is prepared to pay me for my time.
I organise regular house sessions with friends for that kind of thing & the music is invariably better than in pubs & clubs.
Far more worthwhile too, wile leaving the boozers to their canned music and indoor buskers.

[jaycat]

We've had this discussion before, and I reminded folks that back 'in the old days,' free concerts were a common event. The Youngbloods in particular were known for giving them. AFAIK nobody profited and nobody lost $$ but there was a wonderful vibe and everyone had fun. For nothing but the love of the music. Sorry, just a superannuated hippie I guess . . .

[Tobin]

I don't want to live in a world where good artists can't make a living with their talent. But I also don't want to live in a world where people who are already gainfully employed can't pursue their artistic side publicly without being hated by the "professionals". How do we resolve the two? Surely this world is big enough for everyone to pursue their artistic side, either for profit or for the love of the art form, without stepping on each others' toes.

I'm going to keep playing my music in public for free, or for free drinks/tips. And I'll continue to envy those who can make a living from their passion.

[catmandu2]

We've had this discussion before, and I reminded folks that back 'in the old days,' free concerts were a common event. The Youngbloods in particular were known for giving them. AFAIK nobody profited and nobody lost $$ but there was a wonderful vibe and everyone had fun. For nothing but the love of the music. Sorry, just a superannuated hippie I guess . . .

Ya I like it. I don't charge for my music, as it's a gift for me as much as a listener. But i'll charge for travel, labor, logistics, when working with others etc which includes participating in the normal mundane social conventions/transaction, so money or barter is part of that.

[Folkmusician.com]

I see a shift from the value of the "performance", to the value of the marketing side. Obviously, a paying venue has always been about profit and the performers are supposed to draw a crowd and or set a mood. More and more is expected, and it isn't so much about the music anymore.

One group I know keeps a call list (predominately Boomers). So just before the gig, a personal phone call is made to each name on their list. They pack every show. During the show they interact with the audience. Many times, by name. The crowd loves it. I went to one and asked the bartender how it was going. Answer, best night they remembered. They charge a premium and venues are thrilled to have them.

Two of my friends do solo acts and bring in a good living wage. They have no following at all. They play higher-end settings as background music, show up in a suit, play quietly with virtually no interaction with the crowd. This is the complete opposite of most successful musicians, but it is a skill unto itself. The more financially successful of the two, does play for free here and there, but he is selective about the paying gigs and stays booked.

Some of my more musicially talented friends, do not have the business side down and do not do well. They are great musicians and performers, but can't land consistent good paying gigs. Exceptions being those with good booking agents/managers.

Several friends/acquaintances that own clubs have all told me the same thing. Open mics and especially Karaoke, can draw bigger crowds than most bands. It is not just about not paying bands. The bands do not have the draw that Karaoke does. Karaoke has a serious following, and people drag their friends along. An MC of an open mic will typically make just as much as a band playing the same venue. There is no cost savings for the club.

Business first, if you want to make money in the Music "Business".

[catmandu2]

Yes, and that DJ stuff - emcee and everything built right in. What do they call that - 'live sound' or somesuch? I'm sure it's called something else by now.. PA, amp and a laptop. Maybe the new 'performance' genre is called simply 'Tech'..

[Folkmusician.com]

Oh yes, DJ's. I totally forgot about that aspect!

I would venture a guess, that the most successful clubs are more dance oriented and do use Dj's. It has even spilled over into Country line dancing.


In a way, I (and people like me) contribute to the whole problem. I do not enjoy going to crowded venues to listen to music. I love going to a small brewpub with a band as long as it is not overly crowded. In fact, I would rather listen to a so so band in this type of environment than a great band in an environment that I don't care for. So the venues I go to, really can't afford to pay the band.

[brunello97]

....But I also don't want to live in a world where people who are already gainfully employed can't pursue their artistic side publicly without being hated by the "professionals". ....Surely this world is big enough for everyone to pursue their artistic side, either for profit or for the love of the art form, without stepping on each others' toes.

Word. Fair play to you, amigo.

Mick

[DHopkins]

There are certain gig that are free: veteran support, funerals, etc. I'm a retired cop, one member of our band is a retired firefighter, one member is a deputy chief, two of us are veterans. We do some public safety freebies. There are a couple of volunteer fire departments nearby and we also always help them in their fund raisers. We're always glad to help out.

We enjoy helping and have fun playing but the bottom line is, however, we'd rather have the money.

[Austin Bob]

I live in a town where folks with real talent regularly play for tip jars. It's a sad reality. It's never been easy to make it as a musician, now it's practically impossible.

The other side of the coin is there are some who feel they are owed a living just because they can cover some songs semi-adequately.

[Bertram Henze]

People like to know the established financial value of something before they pay for it. What you are playing, OTOH, may be either new to them, i.e. unfathomable albeit fascinating, or it looks understated, like what everybody could do back home sitting on a straw bale. Nobody's paying for that.