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Thread: New noob member, new "The Loar" mandolin, & endpin jack question

  1. #1

    Default New noob member, new "The Loar" mandolin, & endpin jack question

    Hello everyone!

    I'm brand new to the forum, though I have lurked a bit recently. I'm an experienced guitarist, but basically a mandolin noob. I can play all of 3 R.E.M. songs and Battle of Evermore.....which is probably pretty consistent with a lot of folks who've only dabbled with the mandolin!

    I had a crappy $99 A-style, and a bowlback that slid off my lap/chest, (way back in the mid 90's) that were lost to the sands of time.

    I didn't want another $99 one, and I'd been wanting an f-style since always, but since I'm not a real mandolin player, I didn't want to spend more than a couple hundred bucks, max. I've looked around a lot, and know that nowadays China and Korea are actually making crappy plywood f-styles (used to be the crappy ones were always A-style, in my experience), so it's nearly impossible to buy one with confidence over the internet unless you know the brand.

    Last week, I went into Guitar Center last Thursday to mess around with acoustic guitars, fully intending not to actually buy one. I ended up trying out a "The" Loar LM-310 mandolin (I've read enough here to know....not to just call it "a Loar")..... and the next day I ended up coming back and taking it home with me.

    As I mentioned, I've read around a bit, so I recognize that there is some static regarding the use of the name Loar (muddying the waters, etc.), but I wanted to confirm what someone else said in another thread.... that unless you already know about mandolins, the name Loar rings zero bells, and means nothing. In fact, it's actually a really bad name, in the sense that when I went to research the mandolin later that day, and kept googling "THE LEON"....so that tells you how much of an impression the name makes, at a glance. I was totally remembering it wrong.


    I just got it to enjoy, plunk around on, and possibly to supplement future home recordings, as an extra texture. I really like it, and it's LOUD. It projects way better than either of the ones I owned before (as well as I can remember them anyway). I should point out that this is using a Dunlop USA Nylon .73mm guitar pick (the gray ones)....I just learned today that there are actual mando picks, while reading a thread talking about beginners and BC picks.

    I don't know what "chop" is, and I don't know any mando-specific techniques yet. Sorry I don't have any pics yet, I can snap some later when I'm home if anyone wants to see.

    I did actually make a video about it though!


    (I took those Martin strings back, and got D'Addario (E)J74s

    Anyway, the endpin jack question..... Back in my A days, I used to have a Dean Markley Artist pickup that I stuck to the mando, where I hacked off the cable and added my own jack and hung it over the strap end like a stress relief(20-something years before they did it with the Artist XM). I really loved how faithful it was to the sound of the instrument.

    I want to do the same thing with the The Loar, except the idea I've always wanted to do is to put the pickup on the INSIDE (I know I could spend more for a mando-specific one) and wire it to an endpin jack, so you can't tell it's modded.

    I read that there are endpin jacks that can be inserted externally somehow (after running the wire from the pickup out the hole, that I would have to drill in the "butt" of the instrument) but the only ones I seem to be able to find are the Switchcraft kind, that you have to wire and insert from the inside. I have read about and ruled out those expensive 1/8 jacks. I know how flimsy those cables can be and I don't want to have to deal with adapters.

    I can't find a single YouTube video on installing an endpin jack in a mandolin (which seems odd). Do those jacks exist? If not, how do folks normally install them in a mando?

    Also, I'm hoping that I won't have problems getting the DM pickup to fit inside the f-hole, and wondering if I can sand some of that wood off the top of that super thick disc (I assume the piezo is at the bottom of that wood-cake? LOL)

    Anyway, if you made it this far, thanks for reading, and I appreciate any well-intentioned advice you can offer!

    Thanks!

    Bill
    Last edited by Billkwando; May-22-2017 at 4:44pm.

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  3. #2
    Registered User Mandobart's Avatar
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    Default Re: New noob member, new "The Loar" mandolin, & endpin jack quest

    With an f-hole instrument sometimes its hard to use the switchjacks because you can't fit them thru the f-hole. In these cases I go one of two ways.

    Use a screw in jack. Remove the existing endpin or strap pin and ream out the hole to about 1/2". Put a couple layers of low tack blue masking tape around the f-holes to protect them. Put the pickup of choice in thru the f-hole and route the leads out the hole you reamed in the endblock. Solder up to this screw-in jack. Screw the jack in. Mount the pickup inside the mando. I use an s-type sound post setter to position the pickup.

    Second method - Les Paul jack plate. This is simpler but is more of a noticeable change. Mount the jack plate on the treble side of the lower bout, after drilling a hole for your jack. Screw the plate into the kerfing, the plate size works for this on standard sized mandos. Protecting the f- holes as before, place the pickup inside and mount thru the jack plate. Most f- holes will fit a normal sized 1/4" output jack in the larger lower hole but be careful.

    I have used these JJB piezo pickups in quite a few of my instruments with excellent results.

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  5. #3

    Default Re: New noob member, new "The Loar" mandolin, & endpin jack quest

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandobart View Post
    With an f-hole instrument sometimes its hard to use the switchjacks because you can't fit them thru the f-hole. In these cases I go one of two ways.

    Use a screw in jack. Remove the existing endpin or strap pin and ream out the hole to about 1/2". Put a couple layers of low tack blue masking tape around the f-holes to protect them. Put the pickup of choice in thru the f-hole and route the leads out the hole you reamed in the endblock. Solder up to this screw-in jack. Screw the jack in. Mount the pickup inside the mando. I use an s-type sound post setter to position the pickup.

    Second method - Les Paul jack plate. This is simpler but is more of a noticeable change. Mount the jack plate on the treble side of the lower bout, after drilling a hole for your jack. Screw the plate into the kerfing, the plate size works for this on standard sized mandos. Protecting the f- holes as before, place the pickup inside and mount thru the jack plate. Most f- holes will fit a normal sized 1/4" output jack in the larger lower hole but be careful.

    I have used these JJB piezo pickups in quite a few of my instruments with excellent results.

    Hey, thanks for replying!

    I think you might've convinced me on the JJB pickups, considering you get 2 piezos (probably a more balanced sound) and it's cheaper than the DM anyway, plus being so much smaller to fit into the hole. I will most assuredly not be doing the Les Paul thing, though I do thank you for the suggestion. The endpin idea sounds perfect. I had seen those screw in ones on Ebay (Mighty Mite was the brand, I believe), and had meant to ask about them.

    The idea of screwing it into the wood seems a bit scary. Worried that the wood will be really hard and that I won't have the strength to do it (normal dude strength btw, not a weight lifter but not Sam Jackson in Unbreakable weaksauce either lol) or that the fit will be too tight and I'll crack it.

    Also worried about twisting up the wires while screwing in the jack (man, a broken solder connection would suuuuuuck). Or how much wire to use, so there's enough, but not too much so it's rattling around in there. Also wondering, since it's a stereo jack, about which posts to solder.

    Your "sound post setter" (???) link is dead by the way. Curious what it looks like.

    Do you use regular super glue for the JJBs?

    Also I noticed you said "ream". I'm definitely not in the market for a $70 stewmac drill bit, but I have paddle bits and brad points and all sorts of bits. Anything I could substitute or get for normal people prices would be greatly appreciated.

    Any other specifics you could offer or additional tips would be helpful, because I am definitely doing this thang!

    Edit: For the JJB, I want the 2 piezo version, right? Not sure why they sell one with 3. Also, I assume I want the 20mm, not the 15?
    Last edited by Billkwando; May-22-2017 at 7:45pm.

  6. #4
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    Default Re: New noob member, new "The Loar" mandolin, & endpin jack quest

    Another approach some use is called a "carpenter jack". It's a phono jack that clamps on to you instrument in a manner similar to a violin chin rest, or mandolin arm rest. The advantage is that there's no drilling, no reaming, no modification to your instrument, and totally reversible if need be.
    Don

    2016 Weber Custom Bitterroot F
    2011 Weber Bitterroot A
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  8. #5

    Default Re: New noob member, new "The Loar" mandolin, & endpin jack quest

    Quote Originally Posted by multidon View Post
    Another approach some use is called a "carpenter jack". It's a phono jack that clamps on to you instrument in a manner similar to a violin chin rest, or mandolin arm rest. The advantage is that there's no drilling, no reaming, no modification to your instrument, and totally reversible if need be.
    Oh yes, thanks! That's the other thing I forgot to mention that I didn't want to do. Too close to my old "hang the jack over the strap" trick.

    My goal is to have the mandolin appear completely unmodified. I should've said that, whoops.

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    Default Re: New noob member, new "The Loar" mandolin, & endpin jack quest

    Hey, Bill. I don't know much about electricity 'cept that stuff can kill you if you get too much at one time. Just wanted to say welcome to the bunch.
    New to mando? Click this link -->Newbies to join us at the Newbies Social Group.

    Just send an email to rob.meldrum@gmail.com with "mandolin setup" in the subject line and he will email you a copy of his ebook for free (free to all mandolincafe members).

    My website and blog: honketyhank.com

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    Default Re: New noob member, new "The Loar" mandolin, & endpin jack quest

    Well, Billkwando, your options are limited as you are discovering. That's the reason folks go with carpenter jacks. The space you have to work with is so limiting, and you aren't the only one who is nervous about doing their own work. You could always pay a professional to do it if you are afraid of doing it yourself. That's what I would probably do myself, in spite of he fact that it seems deceptively simple.

    You do seem - is "obsessed" to strong a word? - obsessed with making the mandolin look unmodified. That being the case, Mandobart's suggestion of using the screw in jack is probably best. The way that you avoid broken solder connections is to thread the jack in BEFORE you mount the sensors. That way the leads will just spin with the jack. Mount the sensors as your last step. I would not use super glue, though many do. If you ever had to remove them, because they stopped working or something (yes, it happens) you would not be able to take them out without damage. I would recommend some kind of putty, like blu-tack. It works fine, holds well, and is not permanent. The sound post setter Mandobart speaks of can be obtained from any business that makes tools for the violin trade. International Violin in Baltimore carries a reasonably priced one. But you could certainly fashion your own suitable tool from a piece of coat hanger wire.

    I use the Dean Markley Pickups for various instruments that I don't want to modify. I take off the AWFUL putty they give typos with it because it leaves residue and marks on the instrument, even though they say it doesn't. I substitute the blu-tack, which works much better. If you remove the putty, you will see the underside is clear and you can see the sensor in there, encapsulated in the plastic. I don't think you could "sand off" enough to get it to fit in the f holes without doing damage. The JJB that Mandobart likes is a low cost option. Those piezo sensors are more or less all the same, or at least similar. The DM is the same thing, only encapsulated. Another model popular with mandolinists is the K&K twin spot. The sensors are smaller and may be easier to work with. Whatever you choose, it will have to go into a preamp before your p.a. I am sure you discovered that to be true with you DM. Good luck!
    Don

    2016 Weber Custom Bitterroot F
    2011 Weber Bitterroot A
    1974 Martin Style A

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    Registered User Ausdoerrt's Avatar
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    Default Re: New noob member, new "The Loar" mandolin, & endpin jack quest

    A 'carpenter jack' doesn't make a mandolin look 'modified', IMO, it looks about the same as if you hanged a small mic on it. That's the most 'acoustic' and 'non-intrusive' you can get. I mean, you don't cringe when you see pros like Chris Thile do it.

    I even think it looks kinda cool, but that's just me.

    Pic for reference: https://www.instagram.com/p/BUNHSykjLhb/
    Mandolins: The Loar LM-220; Lyon & Healy Special A #103; Epiphone Mandobird VIII
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  15. #9
    Registered User Mandobart's Avatar
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    Default Re: New noob member, new "The Loar" mandolin, & endpin jack quest

    If I could cuss on this forum I would take you all back to my submarine days. Bill I had a very detailed set of answers to all your questions with about six hyperlinks and I was almost done then fat-fingered my tablet and it all vaporized. Working nights, time for bed. Best of luck.

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    Default Re: New noob member, new "The Loar" mandolin, & endpin jack quest

    I forgot to mention, of course it goes without saying that you would have to enlarge the hole in the tailpiece to accommodate the jack. Some folks are set up to drill metal, some aren't.

    I checked out old threads on this subject (easy enough with the search function) and I read enough to confirm that this is not a project I would take on myself. One very well respected member here who does a lot of these installations strongly recommends the reamer approach. There is too much of a chance a drill bit will seize up and the force could split the end block. Too much risk for me. I would use the reamer for the control it offers. Of course I already own a reamer. It doesn't make a lot of sense to buy a reamer for just one job. Seems like for the cost of buying a reamer, you could pay a luthier who already owns a reamer to do the work.

    Still like the carpenter jack solution, and I would do this if I had to. Also forgot to mention the LR Baggs Radius, a popular solution that requires no modification. You can even mount the pickup part inside if you like. But you still have to use the carpenter jack that comes with it, an option which you have already dismissed.

    Personally, when I need to be amplified, I simply play into a high quality mike. To me this is the simplest and most elegant solution.

    Often, folks with a background like yours (experienced guitarists) who come to the mandolin are surprised by the apparent lack of amplification solutions. After all, in the guitar world, we are used to being inundated with all sorts of acoustic/ electric solutions, both built in and add on. But it's the size difference that's the bugaboo. It doesn't surprise me in the least that there aren't any YouTube videos showing how to install a pickup in a mandolin. It is not a job for the faint of heart. There really aren't even that many models with pick ups pre installed. Eastman has the 600 series, Breedlove used to install pickups on some models before they stopped USA production, and if course there are the Ovation and Godin models made primarily for plugging in.

    I am on the verge of rambling so I will stop now. But just let me re-emphasize that I would think long and hard before I drilled that instrument. Too many opportunities for something to go wrong. Talk about suck! The reamer is a calmer, safer way to go if you feel you must do this.
    Don

    2016 Weber Custom Bitterroot F
    2011 Weber Bitterroot A
    1974 Martin Style A

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  19. #11

    Default Re: New noob member, new "The Loar" mandolin, & endpin jack quest

    Quote Originally Posted by HonketyHank View Post
    Hey, Bill. I don't know much about electricity 'cept that stuff can kill you if you get too much at one time. Just wanted to say welcome to the bunch.
    Hey, thank you! It's great to be here. This place is the TDPRI of Mandolin stuff.

    Also, you're right. Nobody wants to be poorly from too much electric!




    Quote Originally Posted by multidon View Post
    Well, Billkwando, your options are limited as you are discovering. That's the reason folks go with carpenter jacks. The space you have to work with is so limiting, and you aren't the only one who is nervous about doing their own work. You could always pay a professional to do it if you are afraid of doing it yourself. That's what I would probably do myself, in spite of he fact that it seems deceptively simple.

    You do seem - is "obsessed" to strong a word? - obsessed with making the mandolin look unmodified. That being the case, Mandobart's suggestion of using the screw in jack is probably best. The way that you avoid broken solder connections is to thread the jack in BEFORE you mount the sensors. That way the leads will just spin with the jack. Mount the sensors as your last step. I would not use super glue, though many do. If you ever had to remove them, because they stopped working or something (yes, it happens) you would not be able to take them out without damage. I would recommend some kind of putty, like blu-tack. It works fine, holds well, and is not permanent. The sound post setter Mandobart speaks of can be obtained from any business that makes tools for the violin trade. International Violin in Baltimore carries a reasonably priced one. But you could certainly fashion your own suitable tool from a piece of coat hanger wire.

    I use the Dean Markley Pickups for various instruments that I don't want to modify. I take off the AWFUL putty they give typos with it because it leaves residue and marks on the instrument, even though they say it doesn't. I substitute the blu-tack, which works much better. If you remove the putty, you will see the underside is clear and you can see the sensor in there, encapsulated in the plastic. I don't think you could "sand off" enough to get it to fit in the f holes without doing damage. The JJB that Mandobart likes is a low cost option. Those piezo sensors are more or less all the same, or at least similar. The DM is the same thing, only encapsulated. Another model popular with mandolinists is the K&K twin spot. The sensors are smaller and may be easier to work with. Whatever you choose, it will have to go into a preamp before your p.a. I am sure you discovered that to be true with you DM. Good luck!
    I wouldn't say I'm "obsessed", per se, but if there's a "best" way to do something, that would be my preference. It's not just aesthetic. I don't want the carpenter jack getting snagged on anything, and I know for sure that if my wife sees an alien apparatus hanging off of the mandolin, she's going to be less likely to want to try and play it, for fear of breaking something (she plays guitar and got a uke not too long ago). However I do find the mandolin to be aesthetically pleasing in it's stock state (feel free to laugh, I considered using a leather lanyard on my strap because I was debating about the strap covering up too much of the florentine and it not looking as cool....ridiculous I know). Part of the reason, as dumb as it is, for getting an f-style mandolin is how attractive they are....so when I'm not playing it (mainly a guitarist) I can gaze upon it and enjoy its pleasing countenance (yes, I'm joking a fair amount here, but it is very nice to look at).




    Quote Originally Posted by Ausdoerrt View Post
    A 'carpenter jack' doesn't make a mandolin look 'modified', IMO, it looks about the same as if you hanged a small mic on it. That's the most 'acoustic' and 'non-intrusive' you can get. I mean, you don't cringe when you see pros like Chris Thile do it.

    I even think it looks kinda cool, but that's just me.

    Pic for reference: https://www.instagram.com/p/BUNHSykjLhb/
    See, to me that looks mad janky! For some reason they don't bother me on violins....maybe because I'm not a violinist.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mandobart View Post
    If I could cuss on this forum I would take you all back to my submarine days. Bill I had a very detailed set of answers to all your questions with about six hyperlinks and I was almost done then fat-fingered my tablet and it all vaporized. Working nights, time for bed. Best of luck.
    Believe me, I've done that and it's INFURIATING!!!!! Totally takes the wind out of your sails and makes you want to just walk away.... Nowadays, like with my OP post, I write them in Notepad, or regularly paste them into it, just in case....

    If you can ever bring yourself to write it again, I'd be in your debt!
    Last edited by Billkwando; May-23-2017 at 4:56pm.

  20. #12

    Default Re: New noob member, new "The Loar" mandolin, & endpin jack quest

    Quote Originally Posted by multidon View Post
    I forgot to mention, of course it goes without saying that you would have to enlarge the hole in the tailpiece to accommodate the jack. Some folks are set up to drill metal, some aren't.

    I checked out old threads on this subject (easy enough with the search function) and I read enough to confirm that this is not a project I would take on myself. One very well respected member here who does a lot of these installations strongly recommends the reamer approach. There is too much of a chance a drill bit will seize up and the force could split the end block. Too much risk for me. I would use the reamer for the control it offers. Of course I already own a reamer. It doesn't make a lot of sense to buy a reamer for just one job. Seems like for the cost of buying a reamer, you could pay a luthier who already owns a reamer to do the work.

    Still like the carpenter jack solution, and I would do this if I had to. Also forgot to mention the LR Baggs Radius, a popular solution that requires no modification. You can even mount the pickup part inside if you like. But you still have to use the carpenter jack that comes with it, an option which you have already dismissed.

    Personally, when I need to be amplified, I simply play into a high quality mike. To me this is the simplest and most elegant solution.

    Often, folks with a background like yours (experienced guitarists) who come to the mandolin are surprised by the apparent lack of amplification solutions. After all, in the guitar world, we are used to being inundated with all sorts of acoustic/ electric solutions, both built in and add on. But it's the size difference that's the bugaboo. It doesn't surprise me in the least that there aren't any YouTube videos showing how to install a pickup in a mandolin. It is not a job for the faint of heart. There really aren't even that many models with pick ups pre installed. Eastman has the 600 series, Breedlove used to install pickups on some models before they stopped USA production, and if course there are the Ovation and Godin models made primarily for plugging in.

    I am on the verge of rambling so I will stop now. But just let me re-emphasize that I would think long and hard before I drilled that instrument. Too many opportunities for something to go wrong. Talk about suck! The reamer is a calmer, safer way to go if you feel you must do this.
    Hey, I appreciate the advice, really!

    See, in my mind, I'm thinking that I'll already have a hole to use as a guide, so how hard can it be? I've drilled out holes in steel bridges before (I have an 11 part video series on the work I did for one of my guitars, and part of it was doing that) and I have a tendency to be able to pull off virtually anything I set my mind to, with enough research and planning. However, it's always easier to follow in someone else's footsteps, if there's an opportunity....so that's why I wanted to ask all the questions I could here first.


    Edit: so you guys don't think I'm blowing smoke, let me give you an example of the crazy seat of the pants work I've done. "They" said you had to have a drill press to install side dots. I begged to differ, and set about proving it......on my only bass.


    I know this isn't the same thing, but I just wanted to put it forth as one example of my persistence paying off, when I "should've" just paid somebody.


    Is the reamer made for wood or metal or both? It sounds to me like I'll need to drill through both.

    I meant to mention earlier, I already ordered the JJB piezo set (20mm, with the 3 piezos, so I have 1 backup if one breaks) as well as one of those screw in jacks. (Edit: Just ordered some Blue-Tac too)

    Is there anything wrong with just drilling slow, clearing the hole, and taking your time?

    Because I have no idea what I'm doing, at least to a certain extent, I'm (perhaps irrationally) convinced that it should be possible to do with a good titanium DeWalt bit, and patience.

    I still welcome any and all advice, cos one way or the other, I'm either going to succeed, or I'm going to have mandolin guts all over my basement.




    Edit: Speaking of, what's the best way to pull an existing endpin out? LOL
    Last edited by Billkwando; May-23-2017 at 5:11pm.

  21. #13

    Default Re: New noob member, new "The Loar" mandolin, & endpin jack quest

    i have an lm-310f and will be doing a pictorial on installing a jjb prestige-220 set of transducers. the jjb is the same as the k&k sound internal transducers.

    way in the past i did a pictorial for installing the k&k pure mini transducer trio for an acoustic flat top. the "f" mando is lots harder for two reasons - the transducers need to be installed through whatever "f" holes (or slits or whatever) are present, then there's how to install the strapjack. drilling out the 1/2" hole for the jack body, thru the mando's tail block, is the easy part. the really hard part (for some folks) will be what to do about the larger nut and strap collar - either recess the nut into the mando body wood or drill out the tail piece to accept it. i think the former is the better solution. we'll see shortly.
    Mandolins are truly *magic*!

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  23. #14
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    Default Re: New noob member, new "The Loar" mandolin, & endpin jack quest

    Your end pin should just be in there with a friction fit. Grip it firmly and twist. It should pop right out. Never did it on a "the Loar". Some makers put just a dab of glue to hold it in place so be careful. Even if there is a dab of glue it would break with a little pressure as these are designed to be removable. There are exceptions so proceed with caution. It shouldn't require too much force. If it does you have a bit of a problem. To keep it from slipping, you could use one of those waffle pattern rubber jar lid openers to give you better traction.
    Don

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    2011 Weber Bitterroot A
    1974 Martin Style A

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  25. #15

    Default Re: New noob member, new "The Loar" mandolin, & endpin jack quest

    youtube kk 'f' mando install (same for the jjb) ...

    Mandolins are truly *magic*!

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  27. #16

    Default Re: New noob member, new "The Loar" mandolin, & endpin jack quest

    I am coming in a bit late, and didn't read through everything....

    Anyone withe some basic tool skills should be able to do the pickup install. The endpin jacks will just barely fit through The Loar F-holes. I do this all the time.

    Only major gotcha is drilling the endpin and this isn't a warning due to a slim chance of cracking it. There is a very high chance, if you are not careful. So use extreme caution just before the bit punches through. It can be done with a drill bit if you are careful. No worries with a reamer.
    Robert Fear
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  29. #17

    Default Re: New noob member, new "The Loar" mandolin, & endpin jack quest

    Quote Originally Posted by rfd View Post
    i have an lm-310f and will be doing a pictorial on installing a jjb prestige-220 set of transducers. the jjb is the same as the k&k sound internal transducers.

    way in the past i did a pictorial for installing the k&k pure mini transducer trio for an acoustic flat top. the "f" mando is lots harder for two reasons - the transducers need to be installed through whatever "f" holes (or slits or whatever) are present, then there's how to install the strapjack. drilling out the 1/2" hole for the jack body, thru the mando's tail block, is the easy part. the really hard part (for some folks) will be what to do about the larger nut and strap collar - either recess the nut into the mando body wood or drill out the tail piece to accept it. i think the former is the better solution. we'll see shortly.
    The nut thing won't be an issue for me, because I took the original advice I was given, and got a screw in jack.

    I'm thinking I may just be able to screw it right up to the plate...not need to make the plate hole big enough to fit the whole jack through, right? I know that at least one of the The Loar models comes installed with an endpin jack and a Fishman, so I'm hoping that maybe they magically drill them all that way from the factory as part of their normal production. Yeah right, but a guy can dream! LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by rfd View Post
    youtube kk 'f' mando install (same for the jjb) ...

    This is helpful! I can probably use an allen wre3nch in place of the bent nail. I wonder if it still works right if you use blue tac on both sides? (one to make it stick to the wrench and one to affix it to the body)


    Quote Originally Posted by Folkmusician.com View Post
    I am coming in a bit late, and didn't read through everything....

    Anyone withe some basic tool skills should be able to do the pickup install. The endpin jacks will just barely fit through The Loar F-holes. I do this all the time.

    Only major gotcha is drilling the endpin and this isn't a warning due to a slim chance of cracking it. There is a very high chance, if you are not careful. So use extreme caution just before the bit punches through. It can be done with a drill bit if you are careful. No worries with a reamer.
    This is encouraging. Would something like this make it any easier?

    https://www.amazon.com/Neiko-10193A-...words=step+bit


    Oh yeah, here's mah mandolicious new addition:


  30. #18

    Default Re: New noob member, new "The Loar" mandolin, & endpin jack quest

    The nut thing won't be an issue for me, because I took the original advice I was given, and got a screw in jack.

    I'm thinking I may just be able to screw it right up to the plate...not need to make the plate hole big enough to fit the whole jack through, right? I know that at least one of the The Loar models comes installed with an endpin jack and a Fishman, so I'm hoping that maybe they magically drill them all that way from the factory as part of their normal production. Yeah right, but a guy can dream! LOL
    what jack didja buy, a standard switchcraft type, as for a guitar? if so, where are ya gonna stick it? no way will that fit in the current mando's end pin location without some Major Surgery that will be far worse than dealing with a strap jack because a switchcraft style is of a larger diameter. but punching a hole for it in the side wood, no problemo.

    even a deep panel threaded guitar jack will present issues that you'll need to think a bunch about for sticking into the end pin block of the mando.
    Mandolins are truly *magic*!

  31. #19

    Default Re: New noob member, new "The Loar" mandolin, & endpin jack quest

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Mighty Mite 1/4" Chrome Barrel End Pin Input Jack MM112

  32. #20

    Default Re: New noob member, new "The Loar" mandolin, & endpin jack quest

    that's a modified deep panel jack. if the barrel is 1/2" or less it should work fine, but you'll probably still need to ream out the tail piece strap peg hole. get a spare - these kinda jacks aren't of the best quality.
    Mandolins are truly *magic*!

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  34. #21

    Default Re: New noob member, new "The Loar" mandolin, & endpin jack quest

    The Fishman switchjack will fit through the F-hole. It is a modified (threaded) Switchcraft. I have literally installed hundreds of these. There are some mandolins it will not fit in, never had a problem with The Loar. You have to twist it around and carefully get it through.

    I am in agreement on that Mighty Mite jack there. These are not the greatest quality and the cable fit is a bit sloppy. The best quality is the Fishman, but there is also one from Italy that is great quality, but not readily available. LR Baggs uses them.

    Careful of the cheapies you can get. There are some that look nice, but again, sloppy cable fit and softer metal that doesn't standup well to the cable stress.


    The step drill works great for drilling through the side of a mandolin, but not for the end pin. There isn't enough depth.

    I use this:
    http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools...ck_Reamer.html

    Maybe not realistic for doing only a couple of installs, but you just can't beat it. It has reamed countless holes and is still going strong.

    If I were just doing one install, I would use a standard bit, drill part of the way through with a power drill, then finish by hand. In fact, I do have to occasionally do this on mandolins where the reamer will hit braces (flat tops).

    Somewhere around 1/8" to go, is where the bits catch and tear through, causing cracks. If you have drilled through un-backed wood, you have most likely experienced this. Tailblocks are especially prone.

    Lastely, you have two options of how you mount these.
    You can drill through the tailpiece with it on the mandolin. This is quick to drill, and you have perfect alignment of the hole with the tailpiece for a good endpin fit. Downside, you will have to adjust the thread depth by test fitting the jack a few times (from inside the mandolin).

    This route, I insert it from the outside visually check the depth by looking through the F hole, make the basic adjustment, then test fully installed and pull it out and do the final adjustment.


    Second option is remove the tailpiece , drill the hole just a little oversized and then there is no real thread adjustment needed. Downside, is potential alignment issues. This doesn't work with cast tailpieces as they are too thick.
    Robert Fear
    http://www.folkmusician.com

    "Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don't.
    " - Pete Seeger

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  36. #22

    Default Re: New noob member, new "The Loar" mandolin, & endpin jack quest

    the stew-mac end pin/jack reamer is pretty much industry standard and i'd be lost without. it's a key tool in a luthier's arsenal, but for a one or few time use it'd be cost prohibitive. lots also depends on the end block yer reaming out, it's dimensions and wood type/hardness. some folks get away with actually doweling the existing end pin hole, then drilling it out with a far less expensive 1/2" forstner bit, for a smooth walled holed.

    but for the op, there might be another issue - the jjb transducers are rather large and due to the asymmetrical bass side top bracing on the lm-301f, there isn't enuf room on that side to glue (or tape) down the transducer at the 'f' hole cut, in order to reasonably align with the bridge's bass side foot. the tranny would need to be moved forward a good inch towards the fretboard for it to be fully adhered to the top. k&k's mando transducers are noticeably smaller as well as somewhat flexible to follow an arched top contour, whereas the jjb is thicker and hard as a rock.
    Mandolins are truly *magic*!

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  38. #23

    Default Re: New noob member, new "The Loar" mandolin, & endpin jack quest

    Quote Originally Posted by rfd View Post
    that's a modified deep panel jack. if the barrel is 1/2" or less it should work fine, but you'll probably still need to ream out the tail piece strap peg hole. get a spare - these kinda jacks aren't of the best quality.
    Thanks for the heads up. I'm already looking into ordering a standard endpin jack. I don't want to have to take it out and replace it later (even though realistically it's not going to get a lot of use....not like I'm gigging)


    Quote Originally Posted by Folkmusician.com View Post
    The Fishman switchjack will fit through the F-hole. It is a modified (threaded) Switchcraft. I have literally installed hundreds of these. There are some mandolins it will not fit in, never had a problem with The Loar. You have to twist it around and carefully get it through.

    I am in agreement on that Mighty Mite jack there. These are not the greatest quality and the cable fit is a bit sloppy. The best quality is the Fishman, but there is also one from Italy that is great quality, but not readily available. LR Baggs uses them.

    Careful of the cheapies you can get. There are some that look nice, but again, sloppy cable fit and softer metal that doesn't standup well to the cable stress.


    The step drill works great for drilling through the side of a mandolin, but not for the end pin. There isn't enough depth.

    I use this:
    http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools...ck_Reamer.html

    Maybe not realistic for doing only a couple of installs, but you just can't beat it. It has reamed countless holes and is still going strong.

    If I were just doing one install, I would use a standard bit, drill part of the way through with a power drill, then finish by hand. In fact, I do have to occasionally do this on mandolins where the reamer will hit braces (flat tops).

    Somewhere around 1/8" to go, is where the bits catch and tear through, causing cracks. If you have drilled through un-backed wood, you have most likely experienced this. Tailblocks are especially prone.

    Lastely, you have two options of how you mount these.
    You can drill through the tailpiece with it on the mandolin. This is quick to drill, and you have perfect alignment of the hole with the tailpiece for a good endpin fit. Downside, you will have to adjust the thread depth by test fitting the jack a few times (from inside the mandolin).

    This route, I insert it from the outside visually check the depth by looking through the F hole, make the basic adjustment, then test fully installed and pull it out and do the final adjustment.


    Second option is remove the tailpiece , drill the hole just a little oversized and then there is no real thread adjustment needed. Downside, is potential alignment issues. This doesn't work with cast tailpieces as they are too thick.
    When you say finish by hand, what do I use? I saw this on Amazon, but it doesn't look like they will have them in stock soon enough to be of any use:

    https://www.amazon.com/BQLZR-Fluted-...in+jack+reamer

    Should I get a handcrank or a drill bit handle or...?

    Oh and my plan was to drill through the tailpiece, using the metal as a guide. Should I try and drill fast, slow or medium? Start fast and end slow? Etc....

    Quote Originally Posted by rfd View Post
    the stew-mac end pin/jack reamer is pretty much industry standard and i'd be lost without. it's a key tool in a luthier's arsenal, but for a one or few time use it'd be cost prohibitive. lots also depends on the end block yer reaming out, it's dimensions and wood type/hardness. some folks get away with actually doweling the existing end pin hole, then drilling it out with a far less expensive 1/2" forstner bit, for a smooth walled holed.

    but for the op, there might be another issue - the jjb transducers are rather large and due to the asymmetrical bass side top bracing on the lm-301f, there isn't enuf room on that side to glue (or tape) down the transducer at the 'f' hole cut, in order to reasonably align with the bridge's bass side foot. the tranny would need to be moved forward a good inch towards the fretboard for it to be fully adhered to the top. k&k's mando transducers are noticeably smaller as well as somewhat flexible to follow an arched top contour, whereas the jjb is thicker and hard as a rock.
    This dowel idea sounds interesting. Also, I've emailed JJB again and asked if perhaps the 15mm sensors might be better, considering the arched top and what you guys have advised so far.

    With the asymmetrical bracing issue, will I still be able to do the bent nail/allen wrench thing?

    Also, since I was advised to use Blue-Tac to attach the sensors, will the "puttyous" nature of it compensate in any way for the issue with the arched top and the hard/large transducers?
    Last edited by Billkwando; May-24-2017 at 11:10am.

  39. #24

    Default Re: New noob member, new "The Loar" mandolin, & endpin jack quest

    bill, there's plenty of transducer room on the lm-301f's treble side, but there is no room off the bass side ... IF, you wanted to place the BASS transducer where K&K recommends (see image below).

    kk sez to use doubled d/s tape, jjb sez glue ... i prefer glue as these acoustic transducers need a Good solid bond in order to best transmit tone and volume. if the transducer is inflexible to adjust to a full contact with the curved top, i don't see that as a good thing, either.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by rfd; May-24-2017 at 12:39pm.
    Mandolins are truly *magic*!

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  41. #25

    Default Re: New noob member, new "The Loar" mandolin, & endpin jack quest

    I picked up this 1/2" reamer. Let me know if it's the wrong thing, so I can return it.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Also, like I mentioned before, Blue-Tac is putty, so there's no way that you would get as flat against the wood as you would with double sided tape. Since Dean Markley and others use a thick putty as well, is it not safe to assume that the putty will make up for any slight curvature and still work out?

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