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Thread: Broken (detached) case foot!

  1. #1
    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Broken (detached) case foot!

    After many years I have had a "foot" come loose from my guitar case! It's rather like a large split rivet that goes through the case wall and is then "clinched" over to hold. It's pulled through, I'm wondering about the least invasive way to repair that, large quantity of epoxy to hold it, loosen the lining, reinstall with some sort of backing? I'm a bit daunted by the idea of the lining exercise.
    Open to suggestions.
    Thanks in advance.
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

  2. #2
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Broken (detached) case foot!

    Find a large stainless fender washer and carefully open the case and re-rivet using the fender washer inside under the padding.It won't pull though. I just did this with a latch on my Martin Geib case.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

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    Middle-Aged Old-Timer Tobin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Broken (detached) case foot!

    Can you post a photo?

    If the case wall is damaged from the inside of the rivet "clinching" tearing it out, there may be no real option except to repair or reinforce it from the inside. I guess you could always just rivet a larger exterior piece of brass plate to the outside, which would give it a new base to install a new foot on. But that wouldn't look original.
    1917 Gibson F4
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  5. #4

    Default Re: Broken (detached) case foot!

    Repairing a missing foot isn't terribly difficult. Usually they're long gone but it sounds like you may have retrieved the foot. If you need a new replacement search on eBay for "Guitar Case Feet". They are also sometimes call a "Bell Stud" but few people use correct terminology.

    One simple approach is to drill a new hole about a quarter inch away from the old one. The foot will go into the new hole and also cover the old hole. I have a vintage case with this repair and it's held fine since the repair was done presumably in the 30's. You might be able to see the old impression of the original location. That's the one possible downside of this approach. (You'll also need to pull back the lining for this repair, see below.)

    If you'd rather use the original location, you could plug the hole and any inside damage with wood and white glue, then redrill. Using a washer or metal reinforcement seems like overkill to me. Either way you do the repair you'll need to re-clinch the legs of the foot. Hopefully it's obvious how to do it, but please ask if you'd like guidance.

    Don't be scared to pull back the lining. The old glue isn't that strong. You'll probably need to pull back a foot or so of the side padding, and then pull up part of the bottom fabric, which is probably only glued on a couple inches along the edge. (The center of the bottom is all padding.) This will let you access the area necessary to re-install the foot. When you're done installing the foot use a little bit of white glue to reattach the bottom padding, and the side padding. You can hold the side padding in place until the glue dries by using some push pins and maybe clothes pins along the edge. If you have any oozing glue wipe up immediately with a wet cloth.

    Feel free to visit my Facebook group for Vintage Cases, where we spend a lot of time discussing repair projects, and also drooling over cool cases. https://www.facebook.com/groups/vint...strumentcases/

    Steve

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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Broken (detached) case foot!

    Hi Tim - I was going to post 'how i'd do it',but Steve above got it all. Spot on advice !,
    Ivan
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    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Broken (detached) case foot!

    I'm so glad you,chimed in Steve, I may need to do a combination of your (clearly expressed) method in conjunction with the "washer reinforcement" from Mike. I was,trying to avoid the lining manipulation but, I guess that's not realistic.
    Will post picks after. Get the guitar back from a bridge repair.
    I'm not sure if it's the bottom or side, I found the bell after I got home from taking the repair in. Wondered "WTH is that thing?" Then the elevator reached the penthouse!
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Broken (detached) case foot!

    The entire fear of pulling back the lining goes away after you start pulling always the lining.

    Then you are confronted with the fear of not being able to glue it back into place.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

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    Default Re: Broken (detached) case foot!

    Contact cement will put the lining back quite easily.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

  11. #9
    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Broken (detached) case foot!

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    The entire fear of pulling back the lining goes away after you start pulling always the lining.

    Then you are confronted with the fear of not being able to glue it back into place.
    Way to inspire some confidence, Mike!
    I'm pretty sure the "Oh, crap! What am I getting myself into?" will go away after I get into it but, until I start, I will have the butterflies!
    I was thinking contact cement to Pops!
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

  12. #10
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Broken (detached) case foot!

    Keep in mind that you might need to take it out again sometime.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

  13. #11
    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Broken (detached) case foot!

    I've had it almost forty years and I hope I don't have to dismantle the innards of a case again as long as I live. This is before I even start the project!
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

  14. #12
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Broken (detached) case foot!

    Time to expand your horizons Tim.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

  15. #13
    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Broken (detached) case foot!

    Yes, new experiences,
    This has been occupying a lot of my time recently...

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    Or

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    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

  16. #14

    Default Re: Broken (detached) case foot!

    The entire fear of pulling back the lining goes away after you start pulling always the lining.
    Then you are confronted with the fear of not being able to glue it back into place.
    Don't be Scared, it's not complicated. Mike is just jerking your chain.

    Contact cement will put the lining back quite easily.
    I would not recommend contact cement. Solvent-based contact cement has nasty fumes that can destroy the finish on your instrument. You would need to let the case air out for a few weeks before it's safe. I have used water-based contact cement but it's a big hassle. If you're completely relining a case, then yes, I would use water-based contact cement. But for just regluing a few inches of lining then Elmers white glue is plenty good. With any adhesive, don't put it on too heavily because it can soak through and saturate the fabric. Big problem. For the bottom lining (single layer of fabric) just put a little glue on the inside of the case and gently smooth the fabric into place. The sides have padding and a thin cardboard backing, so a little more glue is ok. White glue doesn't have a strong initial tack, and that's why I suggested using push pins and/or clothes pins to hold it in place for a couple hours.

    Hope that helps.

    Steve

  17. #15
    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Broken (detached) case foot!

    The Solvent base had crossed my mind just after writing that. Some "craft"glues are not too awful. I have time, I know once I start I will want to get it done though. Planning is easier than doing the project three times before getting it right.
    Mike's been putting me on for years, one of these days he will realize that we are both getting wrinkles from putting each other on so much!


    Well, probably not!
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Broken (detached) case foot!

    Try wood workers white PVF glue - i've used it successfully to re-stick cotton edge bindings on a couple of rugs in my home. Any water based adhesive should do the trick = no nasty fumes !. PVA glue is formulated for 'fabrics' :- http://www.hobbycraft.co.uk/supplyim...which-glue.pdf ,
    Ivan
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  20. #17
    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Broken (detached) case foot!

    Excellent suggestion Ivan!
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

  21. #18
    Mediocre but OK with that Paul Busman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Broken (detached) case foot!

    Is this a particularly valuable case? What's it's construction? If it were me, I'd probably just Gorilla Glue the foot back on. That stuff holds like crazy.
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  22. #19
    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Broken (detached) case foot!

    Only valuable to me really.
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

  23. #20

    Default Re: Broken (detached) case foot!

    If it were me, I'd probably just Gorilla Glue the foot back on.
    The only place the glue could hold is the center shaft. Yes, the glue would hold it on. But these feet can get knocked hard during use and I'm afraid a glued-on foot would pop off too easily. The split rivet, when properly installed is amazingly strong. Think about how much abuse these cases go through and you rarely see a foot knocked off, or a handle mount pull loose. I understand that doing the repair properly might take an hour, and gluing two minutes. If the case will be just for display and not actual use, then sure, glue that sucker. But if you want it to hold then do it right.

    Steve
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  24. #21
    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Broken (detached) case foot!

    Yeah, this case is an early "Guild" case, I swapped the one that came with my D-25 for it simply because it was cooler! My guess is 60's for the case will post a picture when I get it back.
    That's exactly what the foot looks like! Or, looked like originally.
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

  25. #22
    Mediocre but OK with that Paul Busman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Broken (detached) case foot!

    Quote Originally Posted by Loudloar View Post
    The only place the glue could hold is the center shaft.
    Steve
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    As it cures the Gorilla Glue expands. I think in this case it would fill the foot and provide a good bond. Could always go back and do it the other way if it didn't work.
    For wooden musical fun that doesn't involve strumming, check out:
    www.busmanwhistles.com
    Handcrafted pennywhistles in exotic hardwoods.

  26. #23

    Default Re: Broken (detached) case foot!

    I don't know if you have an "old time" luggage repair/leather repair/shoe repair shop in your area, but if you do it is literally a 5 minute repair job while you wait! I believe the store in our area is Tandy Leather. My buddy had the same issue with a 40's Gibson hardshell guitar case and also a loose handle rivet, as well. I went with him and was amazed and impressed with the repairman's skill and the result was perfect. My friend had agonized over getting the case repaired for a couple years and like I say, it was a very quick and easy repair.

  27. #24

    Default Re: Broken (detached) case foot!

    As it cures the Gorilla Glue expands. I think in this case it would fill the foot and provide a good bond. Could always go back and do it the other way if it didn't work.
    The problem is that there is a layer of Tolex on the outside of the case, so you're gluing to the Tolex. And the Tolex isn't very strongly glued to the wood carcass. I suppose you could go to the trouble of cutting and removing a circle of Tolex from under the foot. But you'd need to be precise or you've really messed up the case. And it still wouldn't be as strong as doing it right.

    Steve

  28. #25
    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Broken (detached) case foot!

    Luggage repair place isn't a bad idea, there was one here about thirty years ago now, not so much.
    And the Tolex issue made me question that method too, you're right Steve, do it right. It doesn't sound like a particularly difficult thing, once I have the case back I will get the project finished!
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

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