Rattlesnake tail rattles in mandolins, do they change anything?

[MontanaMatt]

Speaking of which...

Even the moderately-sized rattles I put in my Ellis were sort of a tight squeeze going into the round end of the f-holes. I've often thought about putting rattles in my fiddles, but they have much smaller f-holes. Given that this was originally a fiddle tradition, how the heck did they get the rattles inside their fiddles? I highly doubt any of the old-timers took the backs off their fiddles just for this, and I don't see any other access ports to fit rattles in there. How did they do it?

Fiddles are easy to open up, and the rattles are put in by the luthier. Tops are all lightly glued on with hide glue, and easily separates often with seasonal weather changes. I've played fiddles with rattles, you can totally hear them. Good fiddles vibrate like heck compared to a mandolin, and the rattlers dance around on the back plate. Difference -yes, better-subjective, cool-totally.

[Tobin]

Well … I think I'd be standing on solid ground, metaphysically speaking, to say that rattlesnake rattles stuffed inside a mandolin or fiddle adds not one iota of "mojo" or "voodoo" or whatever it is that supernatural whatsit is supposed to lend to either instrument or the person playing it.

...says the man who lives in a place where there are no rattlesnakes, and doesn't own a mojo-meter...

[William Smith]

Well ya have to keep the evil at bay! I heard/read that fiddle players put em in originally because they would play all night saturday night and on church on sunday so the "bad" sounds wouldn't come out in church-something like that, I know I have one in my Loar Buster a Killer Loar sounding F-7 conversion and sometimes I can hear some sort of vibe coming from inside that beast! It may be just in my Head but there is something there

[billkilpatrick]

...says the man who lives in a place where there are no rattlesnakes, and doesn't own a mojo-meter...

We've got rattle-less vipers and adders aplenty … and yes, when I first ventured into the wonderful world of mandolins I dutifully bought some rattles off of ebay from some guy in South Dakota, put them in my (a) fiddle and (b) Loar and (yes) felt extremely silly afterwards.

"mojo-meter" - You either have it or you don't … if you need a meter to read it … you don't.

[Dave Wrede]

I put one in my Flatiron F5 and didn't hear any difference but my mojo must've gone up 'cause a friend of mine told me that my playing improved, and he didn't know about the rattles until after his comment.
+1 Rattlesnake Rattles!

A mojometer is like a volt meter; you know there's electricity or mojo there but what's the level? It it positive or negative? How many volts or mojos?

[MikeEdgerton]

Anybody look for a quick source for rattles check these folks out. NFI but I bought one from them years ago.

[brunello97]

We've got rattle-less vipers and adders aplenty … and yes, when I first ventured into the wonderful world of mandolins I dutifully bought some rattles off of ebay from some guy in South Dakota, put them in my (a) fiddle and (b) Loar and (yes) felt extremely silly afterwards.

"mojo-meter" - You either have it or you don't … if you need a meter to read it … you don't.

Hmmm. But a scroll is a scroll is a scroll is a......? Diverse battute per gente diverse.

With all due respect for those with first hand knowledge of la serpente della genesi aside, I wouldn't necessarily trust a Yankee (or Italo-Yankee's) experience with them. (Nobody pays dos centavos for my experience with bagels, corned beef or a slice-a-pie.)

I've skinned and cooked my share of rattlers and pulled out many a vertebrae for Haitian friends in Houston and NO. Found a rattler-tail in a Martin I got from a fella out in Arizona and jumped a foot. Houses in CenTex are up on piers for reasons besides flooding. Shook it on out before I knew about the mojo-tale. Don't think it affect the mojo or tono.

But seriously... a rattlesnake tail in a Chinese mandolin? How could that possibly be a mojo enabler? Like looking for the feng-shui in ranchburger. No wonder it felt silly....

Mick

[billkilpatrick]

For optimum mojo, stick a Pepe-Josè snake nozzle in yer' mandolin ...

[sblock]

I have concluded that some people are so desperate to improve the sound of their budget mandolins that they will try anything.

Say, I heard that if you orient your mandolin case towards Nashville (and Bill Monroe's grave) while it's storing the instrument, it will sound better when you take it out to play it.

[Explorer]

But how, I ask, can you possibly put "all superstition aside"? That's the elephant in the room! People cling to silly, logically indefensible beliefs. This one is right up there.

Anyway, there will always be some folks on the MC who will insist that ANYTHING you do to a mandolin will alter its sound. We've even had people write in to claim that the way you attach your strap makes a difference, or an armrest, or a pickguard.

The only thing that really matters, regardless, is whether you yourself can hear a difference -- and whether you think that difference constitutes an improvement. If you don't have an actual rattle, just try breaking off a bit of a pencil, about the length of a rattlesnake rattle. Drop it into your f-hole. Hear much of a difference? Take it out. Hear much of a difference? Yeah, didn't think so.

There are different instruments which use a rattling or vibrating component to give a different timbre, like the bray harp and the mbira. If such a thing is positioned where it can vibrate sympathetically, it can make an instrument more audible, not because of volume, but the chanhpge in timbre.

A simple example of the increase in audibility due to a buzz, in this case with humming, is the kazoo, which some of you might have heard of.

I have concluded that some people are so desperate to improve the sound of their budget mandolins that they will try anything.

Say, I heard that if you orient your mandolin case towards Nashville (and Bill Monroe's grave) while it's storing the instrument, it will sound better when you take it out to play it.

Hmm. I must admit, I'm a mite puzzled. I gave a few examples of instruments where a rattling feature definitely changes the timbre in an audible way. I'm surprised that any possible such effect is dismissed as superstition, given that even the kazoo isn't normally associated with mojo or magic.

Now what's kind of funny is, I haven't yet heard anyone tell people complaining of sympathetic rattles of ringing on their mando that things like putting a damper under the tailpiece cover, or grommets or leather on the strings between the bridge and tailpiece, are just giving in to superstition. There have been enough topics here on the Café where something is vibrating sympathetically and *audibly* that it's a bit surprisng to hear that idea advanced seriously.

I guess one can learn something new every day.

[Mike Snyder]

It's a bit of fun which was never intended to be taken seriously. Nobody can say "mojo" without a smile. You cannot hear them rattle. I do not feel foolish for having one in my F5. I do not own a "budget" mandolin. I just ordered one online because mine is getting ratty.

[Bertram Henze]

All superstition is based on true grains of fact from the past whose background has been forgotten.

I have read somewhere (and was it not on the Cafe?) that rattles were put in fiddles because
- those fiddles were banned out of the house because they played devil music,
- therefore they had to be kept out in the barn, byre, wherever,
- out there, they were welcome homes for all kind of critters like mice, spiders, birds etc
- so they had to contain some repellant those critters were afraid of: the rattle

To fill your mandolin in the true sense of tradition to protect it, you'd have to put in some
- modern chemical critter repellant
- modern electronic critter repellant (ToneRite?)
- modern banjo player repellant (in a shop near you as soon as it will have been invented)

[billkilpatrick]

… I have read somewhere (and was it not on the Cafe?) that rattles were put in fiddles because - those fiddles were banned out of the house because they played devil music …

Ahhh … there it is.

[William Smith]

Anybody look for a quick source for rattles check these folks out. NFI but I bought one from them years ago.

Pretty Kool site Mike, ya can even get teeth and claws

[bradlaird]

Is the glass vial inside your mandolin, if so I bet that give it real mojo.

The vial stays in my Bill Monroe Ark of the Sacred Relics.

[Tobin]

It's a bit of fun which was never intended to be taken seriously. Nobody can say "mojo" without a smile. You cannot hear them rattle. I do not feel foolish for having one in my F5. I do not own a "budget" mandolin. I just ordered one online because mine is getting ratty.

Agreed. The only time I hear mine rattle is when I pick up my mandolin and hear it slide around inside the body. It has absolutely nothing to do with how the mandolin sounds when played, and the mythology behind it was never about producing improved tone. I have doubts as to whether the old-timers who put them in their fiddles actually gave serious thought to any superstitions, or any of the hyped-up folklore that gets repeated so often in these discussions. They probably just did it because it's a fun/cool thing to do.

It has absolutely nothing to do with "improving the sound of a budget mandolin", and never has.

[Roger Adams]

I think it is just about a "tradition," and there's nothing wrong with that. Kinda cool and does no harm.

[Roger Adams]

double tap!

[Denny Gies]

Mike, so Bill stole that phrase from you, huh?

[JeffD]

Is putting a rattlesnake rattle in your mandolin any more ridiculous than playing music in the first place? Selective rationality.

[billkilpatrick]

As stated earlier, we are but human and fantasy will trump (heh!) rational thought, more often than not - but I do wish those of us who are mature and hopefully wiser wouldn't actively promote such superstitious codswollop.

[Tobin]

As stated earlier, we are but human and fantasy will trump (heh!) rational thought, more often than not - but I do wish those of us who are mature and hopefully wiser wouldn't actively promote such superstitious codswollop.

I'll bet you're a lot of fun at parties!

Seriously, I can't believe anyone in this modern age would put any serious stock in the superstitious powers of a rattlesnake rattle inside an instrument. It's just a bit of harmless fun and tradition, and everyone here knows it.

[MikeEdgerton]

No pencils were harmed in the making of this thread. Carry on.

[Tom Haywood]

No doubt that somebody had rattlesnakes around, had some kind of problem with their fiddle, and had a logical reason for trying to solve the problem by putting rattles in it. Odds are that the solution worked and other people tried it for the same reasons, finding that it worked for them and recommending it to others. Over time, circumstances changed and the reason was forgotten and what we now call urban myths were created from the stories people remember hearing. Bill didn't need to improve the sound of a cheap mandolin, so that reason is likely an urban myth. To dismiss this practice as superstition may be warranted as regards the urban myths, but I think it is untenable in relation to the logical solutions people were looking for and found. The best explanation I have found is that many folks kept their fiddles hung outside on the porch and put the rattles in so that when the wasps and dirt daubers got in their wings would cause the rattles to make noise and they would not build a nest there. Maybe another urban myth, but it is far more reasonable to assume some logical explanation such as this.

Of course, "the devil made me do it" is probably a very old excuse.

[Mark Gunter]

I never knew there was a myth about putting these specifically into budget mandolins as an improvement! Always learn something new here.

I have an Eastman and a Washburn, now I need some rattles.