tonguards ..do they really work?

[Billy Packard]

Tone-Guards work and are an essential element in the same way a shoulder-rest works with a violin.

Same goes with an arm-rest, albeit with less effect.

Billy

billypackardmandolin.com

[William Smith]

Same goes with an arm-rest, albeit with less effect.



I agree with the tone guard, just try to play with mando against gut then play without it touching gut! You will hear the better sound ya get! So get that fat off the back of that horn! I'd say armrest also work, I have one but don't use it at all, just don't like the looks of one on my mandolin, ya don't see the tone guard?

[Tobin]

Tom Ellis advises that the finish on his mandolins isn't fully cured until after six months have elapsed.

Yup. From his website: "The mandolin is finished with Behlen Rockhard Oil Varnish with a Tru-Oil french polish. The varnish I use is very durable and quite resistant to sweat, heat, and alcohol, however it will still be curing and soft for 6 months or so."

This will be true of any mandolin with a similar finish. It takes a long time for the finish to fully cure, and over time it will sort of sink into the wood. When I first put my ToneGard on my Ellis, it was only a few days after I purchased it (and Tom had just delivered it to Fiddler's Green the night before I bought it). So the finish was still very young, which is why I started to get some indentations where the arms of the ToneGard contact the sides, and some slight wrinkling on either side. Over time, this seemed to disappear as the finish hardened and started to sink into the wood.

If there are permanent marks under the arms of the ToneGard, I don't care. I value the ToneGard so much that I wouldn't even mind permanently mounting it to my mandolin, similar to the old-style Gibson pick guard brackets that required a screw into the side. The only reason I'd ever be taking off my ToneGard is for repair/maintenance, if ever needed.

Angling the mandolin away from your body allows the back to resonate in the same manner as when using a 'Tone-gard'. None of the mandolin players i know (apart from one in Scotland) use a Tone-gard, & i have no problem hearing them play 'from in front'. I ''suspect'' that the biggest benefit of using a TG is for the actual player,not the listeners. My own Ellis "A" style sounds more than loud enough to me without one. I've also had no comments about it being 'quiet' at my local Folk club.

I disagree that the benefit of the ToneGard is for the player, not the listeners. Using one will definitely increase volume and resonance, which is noticeable by the audience. Granted, an Ellis mandolin doesn't generally suffer from lack of volume; they have great projection. So it's not a matter of "needing" one to be heard. It's just a matter of drawing out the most potential from the instrument without having to hold it awkwardly away from one's body whilst playing.

For other mandolin makes/brands which don't have a lot of natural volume, a ToneGard may be more necessary for playing to a group or an audience. In fact, that's why I originally bought this ToneGard. I had it on my starter mandolin, and it really did boost the volume while still being able to hold it against my body in my natural playing position.

[Frankdolin]

I have nothing against the ToneGard or the armrest or the capo or any other gadgets for the mandolin, as long as people play.However for a balanced opinion in the thread I have to say I'm an advocate of proper technique which can alleviate most if not all problems that the gadgets propose to alleviate.

[Tobin]

I have nothing against the ToneGard or the armrest or the capo or any other gadgets for the mandolin, as long as people play.However for a balanced opinion in the thread I have to say I'm an advocate of proper technique which can alleviate most if not all problems that the gadgets propose to alleviate.

What, pray tell, is "proper technique"? As far as I can tell, mandolins have always been meant for playing in front of one's body, not held away.

[BrianWilliam]

After using it for a year, I took mine off.

IMO:
- it's more comfortable without
- the tonal differences aren't that great with it on
- craft beer investments can be used to alter dynamics based on the angle of the mandolin which is fun and interesting
- no one in the bands noticed when I removed it

But hey, it's $70 on top of an Ellis. Go for it.

[V70416]

Been using ToneGuards for 20+ years on mandolins and a couple of ukes.

Want to get some of the new surgical tubing to replace the old black rubbers.

Have never let proper technique interfere with my playing.

Tony Pires is the only maker of ToneGuards or any such device of which I am aware.

[Beanzy]

I've always been impressed with the ToneGuard, especially where people play with the mandolin held across their body like a mini guitar. Personally I don't need one, as I don't hold the mandolin in against my body (it rests on my arm & the curve below the tailpiece) so haven't needed to compensate for any lost tone there. But if your hold puts the back of the mandolin against your chest or beer belly, then the TG is going to free it up from damping. As a mandolin hold is such a varied thing it would be pretty difficult to say yea or nay to someone without first seeing how they like to hold the beastie.

[JeffD]

If you can keep the mandolin away from your body, through a combination of perfect technique and perfect physique, the tonegard will make no difference, and is not worth getting.

[sblock]

If you can keep the mandolin away from your body, through a combination of perfect technique and perfect physique, the tonegard will make no difference, and is not worth getting.

Perfectly true, but this is much harder to do while standing than sitting.

[Willie Poole]

When playing a gig my band only uses one mic so when it`s time for me to take a break I raise the mandolin up away from my belly so adding a tone guard wouldn`t be much use for me, I have only been around one mandolin that had one and after trying it with and without I didn`t see any difference in tone or loudness, it was on a Weber Bitterroot mandolin which I never thought was that great anyway....If in your mind it helps then by all means invest in one, a lot of pickers hear a difference because they want to hear one, it helps to justify their decision to spend money on "improvements"...Just as a note has anyone ever seen a picker using one on a Loar or a Gilchrist?

Willie

[Tobin]

Just as a note has anyone ever seen a picker using one on a Loar or a Gilchrist?

Uhh... Chris Thile, John Reischman, Mike Marshall, David Grisman, Ricky Skaggs, and many more Loar players use Tone Gards.

[pit lenz]

...Just as a note has anyone ever seen a picker using one on a Loar or a Gilchrist?

Willie

Mike Marshall and John Reischman (the only two Loars I've met face to fretboard...)

[Stevo75]

I know that Jordan Ramsey (active on this forum and an excellent picker) uses one on his new Ellis F5 that he won at Winfield this year.

[Jeff Hildreth]

Tone-Gards work so well ... why are they not adapted for steel string and nylon guitars.

Or for the bowed stringed instrument family.

[Ron McMillan]

I don't like the look of the toneguard (or its weight), but I liked the idea of getting more volume out of my no-name 70s F5, so I fudged a fix-it out of a stray piece of pine, two viola chinrest brackets, a lot of filing and sanding, and endless coats of walnut stain. I think it does most of what a toneguard is supposed to do, and I quickly got used to playing with it. It does not need to be removed to fit in any case I have used.

I am certain it makes my mandolin louder for me, but doubt if it makes much difference to anyone standing in front of it.

[MediumMando5722]

If they work so well, why not experiment with genuine Loars to see if they will also improve.

As noted above, John Reischman, David Grisman, Chris Thile, Mike Marshall, Ricky Skaggs and many other Loar players use them. Dawg even has a custom model.

[Johnny60]

Another +1 for the Tone Gard - yes they work! They do increase volume but they also increase resonance and depth. Love mine and, if I ever got second mandolin, I'd buy a second TG to go with it.

[Tobin]

Tone-Gards work so well ... why are they not adapted for steel string and nylon guitars.

Or for the bowed stringed instrument family.

Have you even bothered to check the website? He makes a "D-Gard" for dreadnought guitars. He makes Gards for ukuleles, dulcimers, banjos, etc.

Bowed stringed instruments generally are not held against the chest. And they already have their own devices like shoulder rests.

[MontanaMatt]

Tone-Gards work so well ... why are they not adapted for steel string and nylon guitars.

Or for the bowed stringed instrument family.

I don't recall the brand, 20+ years ago I had a fiddle shoulder rest that was the same coverage as a tone gard, made from a solid piece of nylon/plastic, and marketed as focusing the sound leaking out the back of the fiddle away from the ground and the player. It didn't fit well or stay in place so I ditched it, but if I find it in my gear cave, I'll try it again for analysis.

[JeffD]

Perfectly true, but this is much harder to do while standing than sitting.

Very true. But some folks can do it. I don't have the technique or the physique.

[Nbayrfr]

I use a Schertler dyn pickup. My mandolin sounds best with the pickup attached to the back, directly below the bridge. The Tonegaurd separates the pickup from my body.

[Chris Daniels]

As noted above, John Reischman, David Grisman, Chris Thile, Mike Marshall, Ricky Skaggs and many other Loar players use them. Dawg even has a custom model.

Skaggs' is a custom version also (flowerpot design) and Alan Bibey uses a custom with 'AB' on his Loar.

I personally think they're great and would rather not play without one.

C.

[sblock]

The Tone-Gard on the back of John Reischman's Loar F5 has been cleverly outfitted to carry the wireless preamp unit for his DPA4099 microphone (which is clamped to the side and positioned over one of the f-holes). The Tone-Gard therefore does double duty as a part of his sound system, as well as improving the tone of his mandolin when he plays it. He uses the "art deco" style of Tone-Gard, rather than the "sunrise" style, if memory serves, because the metal bars are slightly farther apart, offer a bit more room to mount the preamp.

[billkilpatrick]

Yes, they do - and in addition to whatever anyone else has said, I just resurrected an old Epiphone MM30 from the back of the closet … new strings, new bridge … and it still sounds terrible - BUT! - it sounds much better when played away from and not resting up against the gut.