tonguards ..do they really work?

[LongBlackVeil]

Ive found that they definitely work. Theres not really any debate about that. But sometimes its not a desirable effect. Some mandolins can end up being too bright. That contact between your body and the mandolin has a damping effect that actually sounds pretty good depending on the instrument.

I had a weber yellowstone and a gibson a jr that both seemed to sound better without the gard. The ellis a5 i had seemed to benefit from the extra volume and brightness, it was already complex enough

[RFMando]

I certainly love my toneguard.... now a tonguard does that add sustain?!

[colorado_al]

I'm gettin' out of this one. It's same responses every time the subject comes up.

In for a penny, in for a pound.

[David Lewis]

I really enjoy reading the Toneguard debates. I'll probably never get one, but only because I don't have the type of income that can justify it (I'd probably just buy another 1/2 a Mando or so...) But it's like expensive overdrive pedals, or x-Brand bronze strings (as opposed to Y-brand bronze strings). If you feel it makes a difference, it does. Response is a lot of tone.

How many of us could really play Bill Monroe's mandolin and have it sound like Bill? But I bet a lot of us (me included) would say 'yes, a definite improvement in my tone (objective) and I sound exactly like Bill (less objective - not quite subjective).

A prominent mandolinist once told me they weren't very good, they didn't improve the sound and why have one? For those of you who have one and love it, I honestly and sincerely believe you.

The quest for tone goes on and on...

(sarcasm and critical free post)

[Frankdolin]

Has anyone using a tone guard in a performance ever had any listener comment that "they" thought there was any improvement in the "tone" or in any way helpful to their listening experience ?

[JeffD]

Most of the time, in my experience, the audience is kind of oblivious to subtle tone qualities. At least in my experience. In small jams and ensembles I can hear the difference, other people playing with me can hear the difference and I assume the audience or those listening can hear the difference.

Nobody comes up to me to say anything about it. Mostly I hear "that's a mandolin, right?" or something similar.

[Jeff Mando]

Bill never used one, but Chris does.......so........both sound great to me!

Did I leave anyone out?

[Chuck Leyda]

Most of the time, in my experience, the audience is kind of oblivious to subtle tone qualities. At least in my experience. In small jams and ensembles I can hear the difference, other people playing with me can hear the difference and I assume the audience or those listening can hear the difference.

Nobody comes up to me to say anything about it. Mostly I hear "that's a mandolin, right?" or something similar.

True. A typical band conversation:
Me: Which pick do you like?
Band: Don't care they both sound fine.

Me: Should I play Bouzouki, Octave or standard mandolin on this song?
Band: Don't care.

Me: Do you like the guitar bodied octave or the A shaped octave mandolin?
Band: Don't care. They both sound fine.

I have a sneaking suspicion as to what the answer might be if I asked about the tonegard.

[treidm]

Here are a few users....

Ricky Skaggs
Chris Thile
David Grisman
John Reischman
And they actually use them and play out with them
And on a Loar
Well, what would they know, anyway...
Just Sayin'

[V70416]

The recent viddy with Ricky playing Bill's Loar with a genuine Toneguard on it should shine a whole nother light
on the subject.

[Bill McCall]

Here are a few users....

Ricky Skaggs
Chris Thile
David Grisman
John Reischman
And they actually use them and play out with them
And on a Loar
Well, what would they know, anyway...
Just Sayin'

Much bigger list of players without them including:

Alan Bibey
Tom Rozum
Ronnie McCoury (all on Loars)

with

Adam Steffey
Sierra Hull
Nathan Livers
and too many others to list not using them.

Just shows, YMMV

[DHopkins]

Much bigger list of players without them including:

Alan Bibey
Tom Rozum
Ronnie McCoury (all on Loars)

with

Adam Steffey
Sierra Hull
Nathan Livers
and too many others to list not using them.

Just shows, YMMV

So, maybe they don't know what they're missing???


(I thought unsubscribed but apparently it didn't take. Maybe I'll just hang around.)

[Bill McCall]

So, maybe they don't know what they're missing???

Maybe they do

[sblock]

Isn't this getting silly? You guys seem to have resorted to trading lists of great players who do and don't use ToneGards. What does that demonstrate? The fact that a good many of the top players like and use ToneGard suggests to me that they find these devices to be worthwhile (they're not paid endorsers). The fact that not every great player uses a ToneGard suggests to me that it is not an indispensable item for making music on the mandolin.

After all: all it does is keep your mandolin back away from getting damped by contact with your belly. If you naturally play in a position that holds the back well away from your belly, or if your belly is pretty flat, then you obviously don't really need it. Even if you make belly contact when you play, if you don't care that the sound gets damped by this contact (say, you don' need/want the extra volume, or you play amplified), then you don't need it. If the small bit of extra weight bothers you, or if you are concerned about the tiny marks it might (or might not) leave, then you might not want it.

But if it makes an audible improvement -- and to me, it surely does (Alas, I've a developed a belly in my older years...) -- then that is a good reason to use it. My mandolin sounds much louder and clearer when I play standing up with the ToneGard in place. And I can hear my own playing better while playing seated. So I like what it does to the sound. And so do lots of other folks. So we use the ToneGard.

Love it or hate it, it may not be for everyone. But for those whom it helps, it helps significantly. Worth it to us? Definitely! Worth it to you? Maybe. Maybe not.

[MikeEdgerton]

It is probably the only mandolin gizmo I recommend, and I do recommend them. Don't like them? Cool. Haven't tried one, you should.

And by the way, as far as I know Bill Monroe never used one. If that's reason enough for you not doing it I'm good with that too. I still think they are an excellent addition. If you're built anywhere near the way I am it will help you out.

[George R. Lane]

Mike,

Thanks, well said.

[MikeEdgerton]

I'm not much into lists but some folks might want to visit this page. I see some names there that are appearing above.

[soliver]

Well said sblock

[Bernie Daniel]

Tone guards and similar products (e.g., tone enhancers) do seem to work -- the question is are they worth the effort and bother? After a few years of owning several of them I decided they were not worth the bother and sold them. Never looked back. As far as physical condition goes I prefer working out in the gym every day -- but yes that's a bother too!

[Jeff Mando]

We have discussed the way Monroe held his mandolin before on this forum. Very few players today hold a mandolin they way he did while performing. First, his strap is only over his right shoulder and NOT over his head and back like most people wear a strap. This allows for the mandolin to pivot away from the body as his normal playing position -- keeping the belly muting to a minimum. More than likely he heard how the body can dampen the sound early on and figured out his own solution, IMHO.

[sblock]

We have discussed the way Monroe held his mandolin before on this forum. Very few players today hold a mandolin they way he did while performing. First, his strap is only over his right shoulder and NOT over his head and back like most people wear a strap. This allows for the mandolin to pivot away from the body as his normal playing position -- keeping the belly muting to a minimum. More than likely he heard how the body can dampen the sound early on and figured out his own solution, IMHO.

Err, that's not quite the full story. The main reason Bill Monroe wore a strap over his right shoulder only, and not over his head, is that he and the Bluegrass Boys wore large Stetson hats! A strap worn around the head won't go easily over that wide hat brim, forcing removal of the hat every time to get the instrument on and off. A strap worn over the right shoulder allowed him to keep his hat on at all times, and also to exchange instruments rather easily (he sometimes switched to a second mandolin set up with "Get Up John" tuning).

Also, if you look at videos of Bill Monroe playing, you'll see that he frequently did have his mandolin back held close against his body. In fact, he played with it against his body most of the time! He only tended to push it away for some solos, and especially when he was trying to reach out to work a single microphone, as they so often did back in the day.

Earl Scruggs used the very same strap arrangement with his banjo, incidentally, as did many other Bluegrass Boys. And for the same reason: the Stetson hat. Volume control is not an issue on the 5-string!

This has been documented in past interviews with these musicians.

[treidm]

I'm not much into lists but some folks might want to visit this page. I see some names there that are appearing above.

Awesome list, thanks....

Yep, some on his don't fly list, actually DO have tickets for the flight

[Jeff Mando]

Not sure, I buy the Stetson hat theory.........you can undo your strap at the endpin then reattach it and leave your hat on -- very simple. OR, you can take your hat off for two seconds, put on your mandolin, then put your hat back on -- at the end of your gig simply reverse the process. You are out four seconds, no biggee, as far as I can see........

Freddie King wore his strap that way didn't even wear a hat! (or a tonegard!)

And, you're right, it's getting silly, but that is what we do here -- talk about a bunch of small details that brings enjoyment to our hobby, hopefully. So, it is a worthwhile goal even if most of this stuff has already been talked to death, IMHO.

[sblock]

Not sure, I buy the Stetson hat theory.........you can undo your strap at the endpin then reattach it and leave your hat on -- very simple. OR, you can take your hat off for two seconds, put on your mandolin, then put your hat back on -- at the end of your gig simply reverse the process. You are out four seconds, no biggee, as far as I can see........

Freddie King wore his strap that way didn't even wear a hat! (or a tonegard!)

And, you're right, it's getting silly, but that is what we do here -- talk about a bunch of small details that brings enjoyment to our hobby, hopefully. So, it is a worthwhile goal even if most of this stuff has already been talked to death, IMHO.

Except this not some theory, and no one is asking you to "buy it." Earl and Bill supplied this as a reason when they were asked why they wore their straps over one shoulder. This is not based on some speculation on my part; I remember reading it years ago in interviews. I'm sure there are plenty of former Bluegrass Boys who can confirm this. And many bluegrass musicians copied this way of using the strap.

[Mark Wilson]

On a side note, I've bought 2 of these used in fair condition, where the paint had chipped off, and missing felt. I was able to referb both to like new condition. The fellow who makes them sells the felt and hose pieces. If you still have the original black tubing - the replacement tubing (like on the newer ones) works better imo. The original design have the felt body protectors held onto frame by pieces of slit black tubing(removable) and the body grip arms were shorter. I really prefer the original design but I can see where the newer model would be better for some.

They work as advertised imo.