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Thread: Nice, clean notes

  1. #1

    Default Nice, clean notes

    … with no buzzing. At all. None. How long must I wait to be able to do them? Oh lordy-lordy … how long?

  2. #2
    two t's and one hyphen fatt-dad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nice, clean notes

    Thile had it down by the time he was like 12?

    I also struggle with the whole musical approach. Hitting the notes is quite easy in time. Controlling accuracy and dynamic range, that's a life journey!

    Hang in there!

    f-d
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Nice, clean notes

    Wondering if a radius(ed) fingerboard would help. The little finger is the major culprit; stretched waaaay up there onto the G-string - buzzes or "thubs."

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    Default Re: Nice, clean notes

    Quote Originally Posted by fatt-dad View Post
    Thile had it down by the time he was like 12?
    And yet many of us can often overlook that and enjoy his music...
    Craig Mandola
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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nice, clean notes

    Play slowly and listen. Make sure your fingers are placed properly just behind the frets. Build up speed over time. Listen critically and carefully. Listen.
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    Default Re: Nice, clean notes

    Quote Originally Posted by billkilpatrick View Post
    Oh lordy-lordy … how long?
    The only thing that helps me is a few times thru really slow. So slow you don't recognize the tune maybe. Clean descending runs with speed are a struggle for me. Always the muted note from a finger that refuses to lift out of the way in time.

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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nice, clean notes

    I have also found that a relaxed grip helps, as loose as possible with still maintaining control. Thile and other expert players make it look easy partly because they play with a relaxed grip, I believe.
    Jim

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    Default Re: Nice, clean notes

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    I have also found that a relaxed grip helps, as loose as possible with still maintaining control. Thile and other expert players make it look easy partly because they play with a relaxed grip, I believe.
    I think there's something in that for me at least, I often find myself gripping too hard. Funnily the left hand seems to follow the right, if I am gripping the plectrum hard then I find I am using too much left hand pressure.
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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nice, clean notes

    An idea to help with pinky problems:

    Move the ring finger with the pinky but land a fret lower on the same string.

    I do this on a lot of tunes.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

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  15. #10

    Default Re: Nice, clean notes

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    … Move the ring finger with the pinky but land a fret lower on the same string. …
    Just tried it - I'm in awe of your dexterity.

    Was cauzzes the buzzes for me is placing the pad of the finger on the string instead of the tip. If I think about it, it mostly works ok.

    Do players with a radius fretboard have this problem?

    Also wondering if it would help to make the neck on my Loar 600 a little thinner ...

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    Registered User T.D.Nydn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nice, clean notes

    I play both,radius and not,and I don't think it makes a,huge difference.the pinkie on the G string is probably the hardest to keep clean..I had to work hard at it,,pay attention to your finger pressure,and when descending,I hit that first pinkie note hard..

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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nice, clean notes

    I have both as well, and each one feels like a gigantic relief after playing the other.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

    The entire staff
    funny....

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  20. #13

    Default Re: Nice, clean notes

    Quote Originally Posted by T.D.Nydn View Post
    I play both,radius and not,and I don't think it makes a,huge difference.the pinkie on the G string is probably the hardest to keep clean..I had to work hard at it,,pay attention to your finger pressure,and when descending,I hit that first pinkie note hard..
    Right - me too. I launch that little finger out there like I'm going for gold and sometimes it works and sometimes not.

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  22. #14
    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nice, clean notes

    Quote Originally Posted by billkilpatrick View Post
    … with no buzzing. At all. None. How long must I wait to be able to do them? Oh lordy-lordy … how long?
    No waiting required. Just a lot of work to train both hands. Critical listening during practice is your friend, as well as quick remediation of errors, i.e., go back and do it right, right then. If you can't play cleanly at x speed, slow down to a speed you can fret cleanly, and build from there.

    Reinforcing sloppy notes won't help. But everybody breaks down at some speed, you just want that point to past where you normally need to play.
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    I may be old but I'm ugly billhay4's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nice, clean notes

    I find that a radiused fretboard increases difficulty with the pinky. If you think about it, you not only have to stretch a bit further, but also further down to reach a note on the lower strings with the pinky on a radiused fretboard. I'm intending on building an instrument with a sloped fretboard, sloping toward the e string.
    I have small hands, btw.
    Bill
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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nice, clean notes

    Something else. Don't hesitate to shift your hand up the neck, even slightly, when it makes something easier.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

    The entire staff
    funny....

  26. #17
    two t's and one hyphen fatt-dad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nice, clean notes

    Learn to play in E-flat. That'll work your pinky. No joke it's from my current practicing of Bach that I'm getting better with my pinky. That said, I've just thrown in the towel and gone to capo 1 for my current ambition - Bach's Invention #5. There was no way I'd have any confidence playing all those notes in E-flat! Now, I'm home in my D-scale fingerings.

    I don't know what to say about pinky dexterity. Even in friendly keys like G, there are passages where I'll just grab the seventh fret from my ring finger.

    Good luck, I haven't given up yet, but do appreciate the challenge of an abiding pinky!

    f-d
    ¡papá gordo ain’t no madre flaca!

    '20 A3, '30 L-1, '97 914, 2012 Cohen A5, 2012 Muth A5, '14 OM28A

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    The Amateur Mandolinist Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nice, clean notes

    You've been at it a lot longer than me, Bill, but I think I've recently found a way to use "basic, beginner" mandolin advice/techniques to change my left hand habits, and I think it's improving my pinky reach and helping with cleaner notes. I've begun to place my thumb differently (for me it's a little further down behind the neck just a bit, and pointed more toward the headstock) in order to straighten my hand more in line with the forearm, and increase the reach of the fingertips. I found inspiration for this in the following videos by Brad Laird and Barbara Schultz. Concentrating a bit on this, along with the advice from Jim Garber and Bill Wilson from the posts above, have had positive results.





    I know you are not the newbie that I am, but I thought I'd share in case any of this might help. This very subject has come up this week in the Woodshed Study Social Group.
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    Default Re: Nice, clean notes

    I really don't think there's a complete answer except time and practice...

    In my experience, wider frets feel like they help. But I don't know for sure.

    -- Don

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    Default Re: Nice, clean notes

    I think you can get so precise that you lose the emotion of the music. My music is very emotional.

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  31. #21
    two t's and one hyphen fatt-dad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nice, clean notes

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandoplumb View Post
    I think you can get so precise that you lose the emotion of the music. My music is very emotional.
    something tells me there's a logical conclusion there. . . ? And, right there with you!

    f-d
    ¡papá gordo ain’t no madre flaca!

    '20 A3, '30 L-1, '97 914, 2012 Cohen A5, 2012 Muth A5, '14 OM28A

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    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nice, clean notes

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandoplumb View Post
    I think you can get so precise that you lose the emotion of the music. My music is very emotional.
    So true. i'm often brought to tears by my playing
    Not all the clams are at the beach

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  34. #23

    Default Re: Nice, clean notes

    "Emotional" … I've been thinking about this. By emotional I hope you mean verisimilitude - being true to the song … in tune with the tune - and not some overly dramatic, blood sweat and tears "show." To me, emotional mandolin music suggests images of grimacing rockstars grappling with giant snails - locked in coital embrace and squeezing out notes like spermatozoa:

    Click image for larger version. 

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  36. #24

    Default Re: Nice, clean notes

    Quote Originally Posted by billkilpatrick View Post
    "Emotional" … I've been thinking about this. By emotional I hope you mean verisimilitude - being true to the song … in tune with the tune - and not some overly dramatic, blood sweat and tears "show." To me, emotional mandolin music suggests images of grimacing rockstars grappling with giant snails - locked in coital embrace and squeezing out notes like spermatozoa:
    It can go a bit deeper than that. Here's a classic you can reference - http://www.music-cog.ohio-state.edu/...es/Meyer1.html

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    MandolaViola bratsche's Avatar
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    Default Re: Nice, clean notes

    Haha, Bill, you almost owed me a new keyboard there... you have a way with words sometimes!

    You mentioned getting more buzzing when placing the pad of the finger on the string instead of the tip... I don't think that should have anything to do with it, really, as I find myself using the pads a lot when playing unusual reaches on long scaled instruments. It almost feels like a luxury sometimes to actually be able to use the fingertips! Hey, here's a thought - get a mandola, and play the things you're struggling with on it... then the reaches will seem small by contrast on the mandolin!

    Regarding the whole precision vs. emotion thing, that brings back a memory of how when I was very young, I tended to strive above all for note for note accuracy in my playing, so much so that my high school orchestra director gave me the nickname of "Computer", which he did not mean as a compliment! (Hard to imagine getting such a moniker as that in 1969, but it happened...) Emotion was something I really had to work extremely hard at to put into my playing, as my naturally reserved self did not want to "let it out" for quite some time.

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