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Thread: How to tell if a Gibson is a fern?

  1. #1
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    Default How to tell if a Gibson is a fern?

    I'm looking a a 2003 Gibson f5l to possibly buy and I'm told it's a fern. How can I verify it's a fern?

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    Gibson F5L Gibson A5L
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    Default Re: How to tell if a Gibson is a fern?

    Gibson F5L models have a fern as the headstock decoration ..I really can't say all F5L models have the fern abalone inlay .. other Gibson models have what is called a Flower pot .... the difference is easy to see. https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/i...W8IufGFfHfA9BY
    http://www.mandolinarchive.com/images/82932_peghead.jpg
    http://www.lutherie.net/f-5.hdstk.front.both.jpg R/
    Last edited by UsuallyPickin; Apr-26-2017 at 6:12pm. Reason: added photo
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    Registered User T.D.Nydn's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to tell if a Gibson is a fern?

    I've got a 2003 and the inside label is written "fern", not F5L...

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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to tell if a Gibson is a fern?

    Why not post a picture?
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
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    Registered User T.D.Nydn's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to tell if a Gibson is a fern?

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	156493 Signed by Danny Roberts, 2003 a legendary year for the Fern.

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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to tell if a Gibson is a fern?

    I think if I needed to verify that it was a fern I'd want to verify that it was a Gibson.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

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    Registered User KGreene's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to tell if a Gibson is a fern?

    Why not shoot Danny an email... He's been quickly responsive to questions I've asked of him.

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    Loarcutus of MandoBorg DataNick's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to tell if a Gibson is a fern?

    Multiple threads on this topic...read on Is an F5L the same as a Fern...in a nutshell the F5L was the top of the line Gibson from 1978-1999, Charlie Derrington made changes to the whole product line vs Bozeman and the F5L was re-named "Fern". It's the top of the line (appointments) lacquered F5; the "Master Model" is now the top of the line Gibson.

    Of course to make matters all the more confusing, technically the model designation is still F-5L, as Gibson's product description belies: F-5L "The Fern"

    Some people prefer their Ferns to Master Models; it's all about you...YMMV
    1994 Gibson F5L - Weber signed


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    Default Re: How to tell if a Gibson is a fern?

    They are called Ferns for a reason:

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    Gibson F5 'Harvey' Fern, Gibson F5 'Derrington' Fern
    Distressed Silverangel F 'Esmerelda' aka 'Maxx'
    Northfield Big Mon #127
    Ellis F5 Special #288
    '39 & '45 D-18's, 1950 D-28.

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    Bluegrass Mayhem marbelizer's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to tell if a Gibson is a fern?

    Here's the headstock of my '95 F5V and the label says "Master Model" What is it?!!! OMG!
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    '95 Gibson F-5V
    2017 Collings MF5
    2017 Martin OOO-28
    2002 Martin D-18GE

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    Registered User almeriastrings's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to tell if a Gibson is a fern?

    Gibson stick 'Master Model' labels on all kinds of things... a never ending source of confusion, mystery and fun.

    I like to say there are Master Models, some that never ever were Master Models, then 'Master', Master Models

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Going by the model designation, I would expect yours to be a Fern with a varnish finish...
    Last edited by almeriastrings; Apr-28-2017 at 3:26am.
    Gibson F5 'Harvey' Fern, Gibson F5 'Derrington' Fern
    Distressed Silverangel F 'Esmerelda' aka 'Maxx'
    Northfield Big Mon #127
    Ellis F5 Special #288
    '39 & '45 D-18's, 1950 D-28.

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    Default Re: How to tell if a Gibson is a fern?

    My understanding is that when Siminoff built the first F-5L the "L" meant that it was built to the exact specs that the original Loars were built to but later Charlie Derrington found that this wasn`t true so from then on when they built one they referred to it as an "F-5 Fern".....As far as the term "Master Model" it has been used on just about every F model Gibson and Gibson made Flatiron mandolins, it can get confusing since Gibson now makes one style of mandolin that is called "The Master Model"....Don`t get all hepped up about the names just play them and love them...

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    Default Re: How to tell if a Gibson is a fern?

    I bought it. It is in fact a fern. I can't play one tune (yet) but I can't blame my Chinese mando anymore! Thanks everyone!

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    Registered User f5loar's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to tell if a Gibson is a fern?

    Quote Originally Posted by marbelizer View Post
    Here's the headstock of my '95 F5V and the label says "Master Model" What is it?!!! OMG!
    I would need to see the rest of this one, but I've not seen a newer F5L, V or Fern without multiply binding on the headstock.

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    Registered User Hendrik Ahrend's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to tell if a Gibson is a fern?

    Quote Originally Posted by marbelizer View Post
    Here's the headstock of my '95 F5V and the label says "Master Model" What is it?!!! OMG!
    It's a Montana-made 1990s (probably around '96) F5-L with (spirit) varnish finish, hence the "V". Silver plated (Schaller) tuners and single-ply head stock binding are Monroe-model features.

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    Default Re: How to tell if a Gibson is a fern?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Eagle View Post
    It's a Montana-made 1990s (probably around '96) F5-L with (spirit) varnish finish, hence the "V". Silver plated (Schaller) tuners and single-ply head stock binding are Monroe-model features.
    Ah, yes, those Monroe models. Strange they would single bound a Fern in varnish, but they did do some custom orders in Bozeman.

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    Default Re: How to tell if a Gibson is a fern?

    Quote Originally Posted by f5loar View Post
    Ah, yes, those Monroe models. Strange they would single bound a Fern in varnish, but they did do some custom orders in Bozeman.
    They sure did. I used to own a 1993 custom F5L with flower pot and double-bound head stock, very nice mandolin.

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  29. #18

    Default Re: How to tell if a Gibson is a fern?

    Seems to me there was a thread (or more than one) here some years' back which described the changes that transformed the "F-5L" into the "Fern".

    Apparently that happened around 2002-2003 (?). The purpose was to correct some features of the F-5L to make it more resemble the appointments of the 1920's Fern models.

    Some of the changes if I recall correctly:
    F-5L - had grained ivoroid binding
    Fern - had pure white binding (little or no "grain" to it)

    F-5L - had more brown in the sunburst
    Fern - more red in the sunburst

    F-5L - peghead inlay was thicker, less coloration
    Fern - peghead inlay more "delicate", more coloration

    F-5L - top carving
    Fern - top graduation changed to be more in spec with older Ferns.

    I believe the neck angle may have been changed a little as well.

    Corrections welcomed if I have that wrong.

  30. #19
    Registered User almeriastrings's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to tell if a Gibson is a fern?

    The color of the abalone on the F5-L's can be pretty good.. definitely a "fatter" script and inlay than on the current Fern's, though.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Gibson F5 'Harvey' Fern, Gibson F5 'Derrington' Fern
    Distressed Silverangel F 'Esmerelda' aka 'Maxx'
    Northfield Big Mon #127
    Ellis F5 Special #288
    '39 & '45 D-18's, 1950 D-28.

  31. #20
    Registered User Hendrik Ahrend's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to tell if a Gibson is a fern?

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Albert View Post
    Seems to me there was a thread (or more than one) here some years' back which described the changes that transformed the "F-5L" into the "Fern".

    Apparently that happened around 2002-2003 (?). The purpose was to correct some features of the F-5L to make it more resemble the appointments of the 1920's Fern models.

    Some of the changes if I recall correctly:
    F-5L - had grained ivoroid binding
    Fern - had pure white binding (little or no "grain" to it)

    F-5L - had more brown in the sunburst
    Fern - more red in the sunburst

    F-5L - peghead inlay was thicker, less coloration
    Fern - peghead inlay more "delicate", more coloration

    F-5L - top carving
    Fern - top graduation changed to be more in spec with older Ferns.

    I believe the neck angle may have been changed a little as well.

    Corrections welcomed if I have that wrong.
    Gibson has never seriously tried to copy their 1920s Fern, except for a few appointments, such as the dovetail neck joint the white binding and (to some degree) the more red sunburst.
    The neck angles varied on the F5L. Due to the neck angle, most bridges are (or need to be) higher on the Fern. According to Charlie Derrington, the top graduation on the Fern is modeled after Loar-signed F5s, which may or may not be true. At least the '20s Ferns generally had higher, more pointed arching. The recent Fern and script inlays vary; the earlier (2000-2003?) script was kinda low on the peg head, like Almeria's pictured in post #19. The script pattern of the '20s was different anyway.
    Many recent Fern head stock scroll mitres point downward, and all the (small head stock) scroll cut-outs are larger than in the '20s. Hardly any recent Fern body scroll lacks the "eagle beak" binding mitre, and the body shape (especially between the body points) is quite unlike the '20s originals. I'd say the F5L was closer to the originals in both these respects.
    Last edited by Hendrik Ahrend; May-03-2017 at 8:18am.

  32. #21
    Loarcutus of MandoBorg DataNick's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to tell if a Gibson is a fern?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Eagle View Post
    ...According to Charlie Derrington, the top graduation on the Fern is modeled after Loar-signed F5s, which may or may not be true. At least the '20s Ferns generally had higher, more pointed arching...
    And according to Steve Carlson, they "started over" with the F5L in Bozeman and used Charlie Derrington's Loar as a prototype for measurements, etc....go figure!
    1994 Gibson F5L - Weber signed


    "Mandolin brands are a guide, not gospel! I don't drink koolaid and that Emperor is naked!"
    "If you wanna get soul Baby, you gots to get the scroll..."
    "I would rather play music anyday for the beggar, the thief, and the fool!"
    "Perfection is not attainable; but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence" Vince Lombardi
    Playing Style: RockMonRoll Desperado Bluegrass Desperado YT Channel

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