The more I learn; the less I know! What does 80/20 mean concerning strings? And cryogenic? But probably as soon as someone tells me, I'll find something else that I don't know. It's difficult being a newby at my age.
The more I learn; the less I know! What does 80/20 mean concerning strings? And cryogenic? But probably as soon as someone tells me, I'll find something else that I don't know. It's difficult being a newby at my age.
"Cryogenic" relates to the deep freezing of stuff, maybe so that, ya know, once they find a cure for your disease in a hundred years, your cryogenically frozen corpse can be thawed and cured and you'll be brought back to life. "Cryogenic" relative to strings has proven, IMHO, to be equally as woowoo-based, where some believe that deep freezing causes some internal stress relief, or molecular adjustment, or aura enhancement that makes strings sound better and/or last longer - hopefully just in time for your reconstituted body to take the spotlight at center stage.
80/20 refers to the chemical composition of wound strings meaning that actual facts are involved, so I'll let someone else explain.
- Ed
"Then one day we weren't as young as before
Our mistakes weren't quite so easy to undo
But by all those roads, my friend, we've travelled down
I'm a better man for just the knowin' of you."
- Ian Tyson
With roasting the wood and freezing the strings ? what new pointless things can we think of do to our instruments so gullible people will buy them.
Dave H
Eastman 615 mandola
2011 Weber Bitteroot A5
2012 Weber Bitteroot F5
Eastman MD 915V
Gibson F9
2016 Capek ' Bob ' standard scale tenor banjo
Ibanez Artist 5 string
2001 Paul Shippey oval hole
I became a believer in roasted wood when I played the new Gibson J 45 vintage. Superior to other new Gibsons....or could it be the hide glue?
Silverangel A
Arches F style kit
1913 Gibson A-1
Roasting the wood dries it out. Dry wood makes better instruments than green, wet wood. Why would that not be an improvement?
The different types of strings, 80/20, phosphor bronze, nickel bronze, refer to what the string is composed of. Try each and see what you like.
Soliver arm rested and Tone-Garded Northfield Model M with D’Addario NB 11.5-41, picked with a Wegen Bluegrass 1.4
Chris - 'Roasted' (Torrefied) wood,is different than normal dried wood,whether dried naturally,or 'kiln' dried. It's 'supposedly' a method of 'ageing' wood rather than simply drying it out.
You can read about some aspects of it here :- https://bourgeoisguitars.net/our-new...oustic-guitar/
Whether it really works or has any tonal advantage over other woods is up to the ears of the listener to decide - as it should be,
Ivan
Weber F-5 'Fern'.
Lebeda F-5 "Special".
Stelling Bellflower BANJO
Tokai - 'Tele-alike'.
Ellis DeLuxe "A" style.
Uh, cryogenic treatment is not "woowoo-based". Just as heat treatments are proven to provide stress relief in manufacturing (I spent several years in heavy steel manufacturing, working closely with companies who do post-weld heat treatment), cooling also affects the metal structure. I'm sure you've heard of quenching metals after they are forged or welded? Do you claim this is "woowoo" stuff as well?
Cryogenic treatment is highly misunderstood. What it really does is convert retained austentite to martensite. This can have a hardening effect, creating more durable steel. But it also fills the microvoids in the metal via the "precipitation of micro-fine Eta-carbides". And the repeated cryogenic cooling process provides thermomechanical compression which helps create a more dense, stable, hard metal.
I don't believe any manufacturers are claiming that cryogenically-treated strings have better tone. It's all about improved durability, strength, and life of the string. And given the success of this treatment in tool steel, I see no reason to blow it off as "woowoo-based" nonsense. With that said, I don't think it's a life-changing thing that makes strings better by orders of magnitude. But it certainly is an enhancement in manufacturing technology which, like many other improvements over the decades, makes for better instrument strings.
Keep that skillet good and greasy all the time!
Thanks Tobin ..... good explanation ..... science is too cool ...Har har ... R/
I love hanging out with mandolin nerds . . . . . Thanks peeps ...
I have been using the GHS A270 Cryogenic strings since February and I just changed the strings on my Yellowstone last night. Normally I would change them every month, when they would not stay in tune. These "Frozen" ones seem to last a lot longer. I still have one more set and will see if they make it to July.
Tobin -
Thanks for responding with a good measure of sanity to my, uhmm, blowing off a bit of late-night steam. Had just gotten home from a trip where the plane pulled away from the gate on time, then sat for two and a half hours before even taking off. Yes, on United. No, no kicking or screaming ...
- Ed
"Then one day we weren't as young as before
Our mistakes weren't quite so easy to undo
But by all those roads, my friend, we've travelled down
I'm a better man for just the knowin' of you."
- Ian Tyson
80/20 is an 80% copper/20% Zinc bronze alloy, and it describes the wrap wire that is on the lower strings. This bronze wire is wrapped around a steel core wire (or sometimes a silk & steel core). There are many other types of winding wire that are used, the most common is called Phosphor Bronze, which has a lower Zinc content and has non-metalloid Phosphorus as well. You can get nickel wound, stainless wound, and can get different wire shapes for winding. Flatwound uses a ribbon wrap wire instead of a round wrap wire. Flat-top is a round wire that is then ground to a flat top.
Here's what Strings and Beyond says about 80/20:
"80/20 Bronze Acoustic Strings offer a bright tone. Players like this 80% Copper, 20% Zinc string due to its brilliant "true brass" tone out of the box.
Phosphor Bronze Acoustic Strings offer a rich, and warm tone. Players like this 92% Copper, 8% Zinc composition due to its consistent, slightly warmer tone (compared to 80/20 Bronze) out of the box."
Cryogenic treatment can also be used to retain a metal in it's heat treated state. Aluminium used in aircraft manufacture very often has to be annealed (softened) before a 'forming' process. A stock of Al.Alloy can be annlealed,cryogenically treated & retained in it's annealed state for weeks. When it's required,it's removed from the Cryo.stock & the forming process will take place within a certain length of time. After that time,the Al.Alloy will return to it's normal state,
Ivan
Weber F-5 'Fern'.
Lebeda F-5 "Special".
Stelling Bellflower BANJO
Tokai - 'Tele-alike'.
Ellis DeLuxe "A" style.
I tried the cryogenic strings a couple of times on my guitar and always found them to be very dead sounding to my ears. I very much like the bright sounding ring of 80/20 bronze strings. I have the John Pearse 80/20s on my Eastman now and am very satisfied with the tone.
Eastman MD515 with K&K pickup
Lakewood acoustic guitar with K&K pickup
I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that only the high-strength steel core was cryogenically-treated. This is typically done at the wire factory, or sent to a third-party afterward drawing and heat-treating the wire (but before sending to the string company who puts on the winding). Usually the outer winding is made from soft alloys like the phosphor bronze you mentioned, brass, nickel, etc. These don't benefit from cryo treatments.
So I'm not sure how much of the sound difference you're hearing has to do with the cryo treatment of the core.
Keep that skillet good and greasy all the time!
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