Gibson F-9, Guitar Center - Help?

[MikeZito]

Sometime in the past few hours, Guitar Center has listed a used 2004 Gibson F-9 on their website (no photo yet) for $2100. If it is still there when I get off work, I'm going to check it out.

Apart from he usual set-up type stuff, any advice on what the keep a specific eye out for on something like this? (I have only had the opportunity to play 3 Gibson's in my life, and 2 have been Lloyd Loar's - so my Gibson experience has been limited, and skewed.)

Thanks.

[Hendrik Ahrend]

Well, when it sounds like any of those two Loars, go for it.
Seriously, I'd suggest to look for any open seams and cracks in the body, neck/head stock, head stock scroll, nut, bridge and machine head buttons.
Press down a string at two points (as a ruler) to check for a (fairly) straight neck. Just looking down the neck is sometimes not enough. An ever so slight relief should be fine. In the case of more relief, can it be adjusted with the truss rod? In two recent Ferns I found the truss rod to be hardly working at all.
Also, in some Gibsons I found a bump around the 15th fret. A turn of the truss rod seemed to have made this even worse.
Is the bridge well fitted to the top or lifting up somewhere? Is there room enough to adjust the bridge both ways up and down?
Is there any buzz, possibly due to a nut slot filed too low or any other cause?
Is the tail piece cracked anywhere? (more of an '80s/'90s problem)

And if you like the sound, you may have a good one there.

[jaycat]

That's a good price if it checks out.

(Sorry about your rough weekend - confirmed Nats fan here.)

[MikeZito]

I have told this story on another thread, but the first Lloyd Loar that I played was back around 2003. It was for sale at a music store directly across the street from where I work, and was (comparatively) very inexpensive (maybe $25,000); but it was horrible - essentially unplayable. The 2nd one formerly belonged to New England bluegrass legend Joe Val, it it was a nice as it should be. (I was playing a Rigel R-100 Custom at the time, so I knew quality.)

Hopefully this F-9 will be more comparable to the 2nd Loar than the 1st one.

[JeffD]

I have liked the sound of the few F-9s I have played. Very nice instrument.

[Northwest Steve]

The pictures are up, but very poor. Still it looks in decent shape. If the playability and sound are good it is a good deal, if not?
You are tempting fate by posting on the café. More than one mandolin has disappeared after being mentioned here.

[mee]

Love my F-9. Good thing about guitar center is you can return it if you don't like it, usually 30 days I think unless it is vintage and only get 3 days.
I see they have one of those 1970's Gumby mandolin

[J.Albert]

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Gib...le-Mandolin.gc

Looks to be from the production period just before the flood.

Pictures aren't the best, but one can zoom in a bit and it looks to be in pretty good shape. There's a little wear on the back near the lower point.

The price is nearly as good as you'll find on one of these.

[DataNick]

Mike,

Good intentions but you did take a risk posting on this site.

There is this thing called a telephone and all a person (dealer likely) has to do is pick up the phone call and buy it with credit card on a slight gamble; get it in-house, set-it up and voila it will be on the classifieds for $2800-$3000...hope you get it first...YMMV

[multidon]

It might be the lighting, but it looks to me like someone buffed the matte finish to a semi gloss. I don't like the he look but some do, obviously.

Nice flame on the back. Some of these I've seen are plainer than plain.

Note that it is listed in "good" gondition. There could be scratches, scrapes, dents, etc. that are not showing up in the lousy photos. That said, it is probably a low risk purchase since they have such a liberal return policy.

[MikeEdgerton]

I wouldn't expect that to last too long.

[Josh Levine]

You get 30 days with used gear. Buy it and take it to a professional. Good luck on getting it before someone else on here does.

[dhergert]

The GC definition of "GOOD" condition:

"
This product is completely functional and shows some signs of use.
It may have surface scratches and/or dings and dents.
"

According to the factory specifications, these instruments have a thin lacquer finish which I can attest is easily marred by any hard or sharp object. Having a 2002 model which displays plenty of honest wear, I would imagine this condition description is a kind way of saying "rustic" looking. That said, mine and the handful of other F9s that I've seen and heard all have that characteristic Gibson F5 tone and power. If this F9 is in fact intact and "fully functional", it is a pretty remarkable price too, especially coming from GC.

Hmmm, too bad, if that one picture of the body had been at a slightly different angle, we could have read the serial number on the generic Master Model label.

[mee]

There's an A-9 in the classifieds now if you want to save some cash. But that F-9 sure would be nice for ya

https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/110266#110266

[Charles E.]

And it's gone. That did not take long. The A-9 that is.

[MikeZito]

Quick update:

I just got back from giving the above F9 a test drive . . . and the eight words that best describe the experience are: "A waste of two hours of my life."

To be brief - the playability and sound were worse than my son's off-the-rack Rogue. I may be exaggerating, but it almost looked like somebody covered over the original satin finish with a spray can of high-gloss Rust-Oleum. Even with the bridge all the way down, the action was high and stiff. One of the 'A' strings was buzzing like crazy, and would not stay in tune for more than 1 second - so, I am guessing that there was a a problem with the nut. At a quick glance, the neck looked a little funky, but not too bad. As I sat and quickly looked it over, I almost began to wonder if it was a fake - but I was so disgusted by the whole experience that I didn't stay to examine it further, and was in and out of the store in no more than 5 minutes. The only positive thing about the mandolin was that it came with a nice strap!

With a price tag of $2100, I MIGHT have considered buying it . . . if they gave me a 90% discount!

So - the hunt continues . . . .

[Troy Engle]

Quick update:

I just got back from giving the above F9 a test drive . . . and the eight words that best describe the experience are: "A waste of two hours of my life."

To be brief - the playability and sound were worse than my son's off-the-rack Rogue. I may be exaggerating, but it almost looked like somebody covered over the original satin finish with a spray can of high-gloss Rust-Oleum. Even with the bridge all the way down, the action was high and stiff. One of the 'A' strings was buzzing like crazy, and would not stay in tune for more than 1 second - so, I am guessing that there was a a problem with the nut. At a quick glance, the neck looked a little funky, but not too bad. As I sat and quickly looked it over, I almost began to wonder if it was a fake - but I was so disgusted by the whole experience that I didn't stay to examine it further, and was in and out of the store in no more than 5 minutes. The only positive thing about the mandolin was that it came with a nice strap!

With a price tag of $2100, I MIGHT have considered buying it . . . if they gave me a 90% discount!

So - the hunt continues . . . .

There was a rash of fake F-9's popping up, it's a possibility. The guys at GC would be hard pressed to tell if it's a fake. Update: After looking at the pics, it doesn't look like one of those fake F-9's to me. Those were just the dark brown finish ones, not the sunburst like this one.

[MikeEdgerton]

That's a real F9, like most things it probably just needs to be setup. Barring serious damage most of what folks see as disasters aren't. It's OK to not want to buy something. Somebody will buy that thing and enjoy it.

[dhergert]

Regarding the GC F9 in question, it sounds from your description of the action like there may be a problem, or perhaps a "repaired" problem, with the dovetail neck joint. As you know, the action should not be that bad with the bridge all the way down. And the buzzing would also be disconcerting; did that appear to be related to heavily used fretwork (ruts)?

As an owner of an earlier 2002 F9 I can say the factory-original fit and finish of mine were at least somewhat rustic. I'm the second owner of my F9 and like me, the first owner contributed some honest wear-and-tear, but there still remain some original "marks of the maker" details that are not at all as polished as some similar details on other even less-expensive mandolins that I've seen.

This GC F9 having been previously owned, the cause of the "high-gloss Rust-Oleum" effect may never be fully understood. I know my F9 top's satin finish has become polished by gentle and consistent wear, although there are some significant finish differences between the 2002 F9 models and the later F9 models with the sunburst finish.

Related to buzzing, the previous owner of my F9 liked seriously high action. When I brought the action down to my playable range, there was noticeable fret buzz, so I had to level and dress the frets. Also, the original nut broke on my F9, so I replaced that with a nicer bone nut. Currently playability, tone and volume are very good with this instrument.

The functional issues you've observed with this particular GC F9 would have also been disappointing to me. Some of these issues may be setup related, but I'd also be particularly concerned that there is not sufficient bridge adjustment space and I'd want to have a close look at the fit and finish of the external neck joint area for signs of repair or detachment. Questions about this kind of detail may be the reason that this mandolin has not sold yet.

I hope you find something that plays well, sounds great and pleases your eye!

[Dave Hanson]

I tried out 2 F9s before I bought the one I have, the first one sounded like a Far Eastern plywood box, the second one, which I bought was the cheapest of the 2 and sounds and plays like you would expect a Gibson to sound, brilliant.

You must try before you buy, they are not all good ones.

Dave H

[MikeZito]

Don: My guess is that the buzz is not from fretwork, simply because only one of the 'A'-strings is buzzing, and it is buzzing all the way up and down the neck - so I would be willing to bet it is a nut issue. As you mentioned, the fact that there is no amount of space for bridge adjustment was the last and deciding factor in running away from the instrument. Finding something that "plays well, sounds great and pleases your eye" would be a dream come true!

Dave: Unfortunately, try before you buy is almost impossible in my area - but I am very glad that I made the 2 hour round trip, otherwise, (even though I could easily have returned it), it would have been a huge disappointment to have such high expectations, and end up with such a poor instrument.

Mike: Although the F9 is probably real, the overwhelming problems with the instrument are, unfortunately, just as real. Two of the salesmen at the store told me that the mandolin has gotten 'lots of attention' since it came in . . . but so far it remains on the shelf, despite the excellent price.

My guess is that this was once an fine instrument, but somebody who knew next to nothing about instruments and/or mandolins tried to 'customize it' and/or do a set up, and simply ruined it. The mandolin could probably be brought back to life again - but considering that it is not a 'classic' instrument, and that it has a $2,100 price tag, plus figuring in the the amount of money it would cost to have it fixed, it would probably be much smarter to simply buy one that is not already a wreck, and save yourself the time and hassle.

A very sad story, indeed.

[MikeEdgerton]

And again, I'm still guessing it needs a decent setup. I'm going to guess that the vast majority of vintage mandolins that come out from under beds after decades come out in the same condition. I don't think many mandolins are total losses due to a setup being done by an inexperienced person. I just don't think it's a total loss. I'm not saying it doesn't have issues.

[multidon]

This has been an extremely entertaining discussion to follow. We saw a Gibson F9 come up for sale at a price seemingly too good to be true. One of our members checks it out and it's a dog. Then several of our members say it probably just needs a set up. So many folks here are such die hard Gibson fans (except for the 70's of course, that's the exception) that it seems to me like they think it's impossible for Gibson to make a bad instrument. They go on and on in seeming endless discussion threads about how wonderful the luthiers there were, and are, and I have read numerous discussions singing the praises of the F9. Well, someone checked it out personally and has judged it as lacking. In other words, a dog. But Gibson can't produce a dog. It is beyond the realm of possibilities. So the only possible conclusion is, it must be the set up!

Isn't it possible that, once in a blue moon, Gibson might actually make a bad instrument? And they sell it anyway, knowing somebody will buy it, if for no other reason than it says "Gibson" on the headstock? Because they're a business. If one turns out not so great, do they take a bandsaw to it? Or sell it regardless of how it turns out?

There can be all sorts of theories about why this one is not so hot. It needs a set up, someone fooled around with it, yadda yadda yadda. But sometimes, a dog is just a dog. Anyone can make a bad instrument. Even the mighty G, I suspect.

[MikeEdgerton]

In other words, a dog. But Gibson can't produce a dog.

Sure they can. So can Bruce Weber, I'm sure he created hundreds. So can Bill Collings. So can Steve Gilchrist. I'm sure Mike is a nice guy and has serious mandolin chops but I'm just not ready to write it off as a disaster, totally worthless because one member didn't like what they saw. There are people here that have made a living buying real disasters, doing the setup and re-selling them. To be honest I've never played a Weber or Collings or Givens that did anything for me. Do I think they are all disasters? Nope, I think they probably weren't setup to my liking. It's that simple. I agree, anyone can make a dog but I'm of the opinion that with a little work every dog can bark. It's really OK to not like a mandolin.

[MikeZito]

I'm sure Mike is a nice guy and has serious mandolin chops

Mike - you're a smart guy with a lot to contribute to all of us . . . buy, wow, are you WAY off on that one!