Martin Mahogany Mandolins?

[HonketyHank]

I have a mid to late 1920s Martin style A mandolin. When I bought it some time ago, the seller stated that the top, back and sides were all mahogany. I doubted that, given that I had never heard of Martin 'all mahogany' mandolins, but I had heard of Martin 'all koa' mandolins. I did not attempt to correct the seller's description.

Now I am wondering who is right - I think it is model A-K (aka "all koa"). Did Martin ever did make a mandolin completely of mahogany? If so, how do I differentiate between an 'all koa' and an 'all mahogany'. I can say that the wood is definitely not the standard model A Martin wood.

If there was a mahogany model, I can post some photos to help sort things out.

[pops1]

Hank, you may be right, post a pic, koa is definitely different than mahogany and should be easy to see in a pic. I would love to have a koa martin, I just got a 20's spruce mahogany martin. Haven't got it strung up yet, sent me the wrong strings so waiting to see what it sounds like. Used to have a koa martin guitar and it was killer. enjoy

[Ray(T)]

Ther's no mention of mahogany in Mike Longworth's book but koa was used for the "AK" which was mand between 1920 and 1937.

[CES]

Suspect it's Koa. I have a 70s spruce/mahogany that's quite well built, especially considering the decade

[Jeff Mando]

A lot of people seem to confuse mahogany with koa. And some does look very similar. Post some pics.

In my way of thinking, when I see "mahogany" that I think looks a little "too pretty" and has a "glow" about it, it usually is koa.

[HonketyHank]

Well, I am not a wood ID expert but I know that there are lots of different mahoganies and when I look at pix of koa and mahogany, they do look similar. Here are some photos. I hope we can see the grain clearly enough. The originals are pretty high res, so I can make blowups if necessary. Anyway, if there is no such thing as a 'all mahogany' Martin from the late 1920's, I am quite confident this is koa.


Serial number is 13305.

[pops1]

It looks like koa to me, not very flamed, but koa. Congrats should be a great sounding mandolin.

[mandroid]

Yea, like Ukes do, they used Koa for the top, back and sides,

the mahogany back and sides ones have a Spruce top..

Necks are Mahogany..

[Ray(T)]

Looks like koa but can see why you thought it might be mahogany - compare the neck with the body.

That serial number places it in 1926, they made 150 of them that year and, as a relatively late number for the year, the original owner was probably hit with a price rise - looks like the price went up from $30 to $35 sometime in May. (Bet they were annoyed - they were back to $25 in 1932!)

[NEH57]

When I was first researching my USAAF model, I was wondering what wood it was. I found these refs.
The 1919 catalogue 'suggests' there may have been 'all' mahogany versions, but, it may just have been talking about the body.....although by 1924, the non AK model specifies a spruce top and mahogany body and if anything can be gathered from the images, the '19 is darker than the '24.
http://acousticmusic.wpengine.com/wp...19-Catalog.pdf

http://acousticmusic.wpengine.com/wp...24-Catalog.pdf
It led me to wonder before confirming it was Koa / a 1924 AK, because 'some' of the images of Koa instruments have what I guess is called "highly figured" wood and mine looks quite ( if not very ) plain by comparison.....almost Mahogany'ish, in truth.....

[JeffD]

Beautiful mandolin Hank.

[MikeEdgerton]

That is an AK.

[fifths]

Wow Hank, that's a beauty. I have an early 20s Martin style 1k Uke of my grandfather's, and it is very similar color and has the same straight grain/no flame koa. Maybe the tall, straight, ancient trees they were cutting then just weren't as stressed as those that are available now? They must have had a log or three. Very nice!

[tonydxn]

Some of the koa Martin used was really quite plain and could easily be mistaken for mahogany by someone who didn't know about it. Yours is a really nice one, Hank.

[bbcee]

I had never heard of Martin 'all mahogany' mandolins, but I had heard of Martin 'all koa' mandolins. I did not attempt to correct the seller's description.

So Hank ... are you going to go back to the seller and give him some extra money, since it's all koa??

[JEStanek]

That's a sweet mandolin. Those koa Martins have great voices.

Jamie

[HonketyHank]

So Hank ... are you going to go back to the seller and give him some extra money, since it's all koa??

I refuse to reward ignorance. But I do regard it as a reward for having learned from my own ignorant transactions.

[JeffD]

That's a sweet mandolin. Those koa Martins have great voices.

They really do. I have heard a few and almost owned one.

The only weak one I heard, the player had light strings on it.

[HonketyHank]

I have to say that when I received this mandolin, I thought "If this really is an A-K, I don't hear what it is that makes folks rave about the sound." Granted, the strings looked a bit old, and my hi-freq hearing is a bit deficient, but still ...

I ordered some genuine Martin 80/20 'Standard' strings, got the strings but never got around to changing them on until today. First off I measured what was on the mandolin -- .008, .011, .026, & .036. Wow. I didn't even know you could get a .008 string and I never heard of a .011 A string either. Ultra ultra lights. But the D and G strings were more like mediums. Weird. The Martin Standard strings are .010, .014, .024, & .034, slightly light but the Martin has no truss rod. Anyway, I got the old strings off.

Hmmm. The bridge is stuck to the top. No wonder it didn't respond to my nudges when it was under tension. I gently tried to move it and it wiggled but remained stuck. Gave it just a little bit more of a nudge and it came loose without pulling up any finish. A layer of very thin double sided tape had been holding it in place. Thank goodness it wasn't something like cyanoacrylate. Got the tape loose and checked the fit of the bridge - did a small amount of sanding to get a better fit.

Installed the new strings. Man o man, what a difference. Now, it sounds a lot more like something you can love.

[MikeEdgerton]

Wow Hank, that's a beauty. I have an early 20s Martin style 1k Uke of my grandfather's, and it is very similar color and has the same straight grain/no flame koa. Maybe the tall, straight, ancient trees they were cutting then just weren't as stressed as those that are available now? They must have had a log or three. Very nice!

What do the tuners look like? I have one with violin style friction tuners that I inherited.

[pops1]

What do the tuners look like? I have one with violin style friction tuners that I inherited.

Mike I have a late 20's spruce and mahogany and it is waverly geared tuners. I have never seen friction violin pegs in a mandolin before, interesting.

[HonketyHank]

What do the tuners look like? I have one with violin style friction tuners that I inherited.

see post #6. pretty plain, standard looking tuners for the 1920's I guess. On the other side, the posts are straight cylindrical and not very tall.

edit: oops, I think yall'uns is talking about ukes. sorry. carry on.

[fifths]

What do the tuners look like? I have one with violin style friction tuners that I inherited.

Hi Mike, if you mean the uke, it, and the other more humble style 0 from the late 20s, both have wooden peg/violin style tuners. I think they are dyed maple?
I love how light they are, and simple!

I have seen 20s sopranos with original (looking) friction tuners, I think the transition from pegs to friction was a little haphazard.

I have a tenor as well ('29-'31, no decal, embossed headstock), that one has patent tuners that seem original.

cheers

[pops1]

I missed that too Hank, Mike sorry.

[allenhopkins]

Hi Mike, if you mean the uke, it, and the other more humble style 0 from the late 20s, both have wooden peg/violin style tuners. I think they are dyed maple? I love how light they are, and simple! I have seen 20s sopranos with original (looking) friction tuners, I think the transition from pegs to friction was a little haphazard...

According to Tom Walsh and John King's book The Martin Ukulele: The Little Instrument That Helped Create a Guitar Giant, published 2013, Martin used wooden friction pegs made of "'alimqui,' also known as bulletwood or South American mahogany. Later Martin experimented with ebony pegs...Later the wood pegs they used were made of 'ebonized' maple..." (p. 126). Martin started using metal "patent" friction pegs on its higher end ukuleles in 1921, but "The new Style 0, and the Style 1 and Style 1K, would continue to be equipped with wooden pegs until 1927. By February of 1927, all Martin ukuleles were being shipped with patent pegs." (p. 127).