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Thread: Date of Monzino Lombardic (Milanese) mandolin

  1. #1
    Registered User tonydxn's Avatar
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    Default Date of Monzino Lombardic (Milanese) mandolin

    I have just taken delivery of my latest project - a Lombardic or Milanese mandolin by Ant. Monzino with a minor structural issue. I would be grateful if anyone could give me any guidance on the date of this instrument:

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    The label in the last shot says '5202' and would originally have been covered, presumably by a slab of MoP.

    Also a couple of bits of further information: It has a hole in the end. Does this mean it should have an endpin? If so, what should it look like?

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    Finally, I would appreciate any guidance on string gauges for the standard GBEADG tuning.

    Thank you

  2. #2

    Default Re: Date of Monzino Lombardic (Milanese) mandolin

    Monzino didn't put date on their labels (except for their finer violins) and they were also large scale distributors of instruments made by other makers (but often labelled by just Monzino label), so it is hard to date a particular instrument. It appears that more modern instruments with the blue label have only via Rastrelli address. By the instrument look I'd roughly date it a turn of a century, but it is more an educated guess though and it could be a later one. The end pin could have been there originally, but could also be a later addition. Any wooden end pin will suffice.

    As for correctly dating the instrument I wonder if the Monzino fund could be of help? I'd write to them for that purpose...

    http://www.fondazioneacmonzino.it/en/la-fondazione/
    Last edited by vic-victor; Apr-18-2017 at 7:02pm.

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  4. #3
    Registered User tonydxn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Date of Monzino Lombardic (Milanese) mandolin

    vic-victor - many thanks for your observations. My gut instinct was along the same lines, but it's good to have that confirmed by someone who knows more about it. I will certainly contact the Monzino Foundation - great idea. (I hope they speak English . . .)

    Do you have any idea about strings gauges?

  5. #4

    Default Re: Date of Monzino Lombardic (Milanese) mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by tonydxn View Post
    Do you have any idea about strings gauges?
    Sorry, have no idea. Dave Hynds (mandolinluthier.com) was recently selling a lombardic beast he has restored and mentioned a particular set of strings for a Lombardic mandolin on his website, you should probably ask him. Good luck.

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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Date of Monzino Lombardic (Milanese) mandolin

    My guess would be 1890s. I have a Lombard mandolin by Serafino Casini that is dated 1896. It seems like most of these were made within a decade or so on either side of the turn of the twentieth century.
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    Registered User tonydxn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Date of Monzino Lombardic (Milanese) mandolin

    Update: I contacted Aquila Corde in Italy and they worked out string gauges for me. They recommended these strings: 145D 108D 88NNG 66NNG 52NNG 42NNG. These are Nylgut strings, for the traditional GBEADG tuning, A=440, string length 303mm.
    I also found on their web site a link to very useful string gauge calculator for materials other than steel (gut, Nylgut, nylon, fluorocarbon, brass, iron) https://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/m.../wwwscalc.html
    It uses Java, so you must have Java enabled on your computer or it won't work.

    I also contacted Monzino Foundation about dating the instrument, but got no reply. Maybe they would have replied if I had written in Italian (or maybe not).

    Here are some photos of the finished result:
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    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Date of Monzino Lombardic (Milanese) mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by tonydxn View Post
    Maybe they would have replied if I had written in Italian....
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    Mick

    Very nice restoration work, btw.
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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Date of Monzino Lombardic (Milanese) mandolin

    I had mine originally in the official Lombard tuning and bought a set of gut strings but the high string is very thin and did not last long. They I figured that learning the oddball tuning is a but much so I had Aquila spec out a set of octave guitar tuned strings. To be hoinest I actually have yet to string it up but you remind me with this beautiful Monzino instrument.

    There is something quite lovely about these instruments. Both have scallopped fretboards.

    Here is my Casini:

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    Default Re: Date of Monzino Lombardic (Milanese) mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by tonydxn View Post
    Update: I contacted Aquila Corde in Italy and they worked out string gauges for me. They recommended these strings: 145D 108D 88NNG 66NNG 52NNG 42NNG. These are Nylgut strings, for the traditional GBEADG tuning, A=440, string length 303mm.
    I also found on their web site a link to very useful string gauge calculator for materials other than steel (gut, Nylgut, nylon, fluorocarbon, brass, iron) https://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/m.../wwwscalc.html
    It uses Java, so you must have Java enabled on your computer or it won't work.

    I also contacted Monzino Foundation about dating the instrument, but got no reply. Maybe they would have replied if I had written in Italian (or maybe not).

    Here are some photos of the finished result:
    Click image for larger version. 

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Views:	196 
Size:	647.1 KB 
ID:	161195Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	161196Click image for larger version. 

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    Wow. What a beautiful instrument!
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    Registered User Tavy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Date of Monzino Lombardic (Milanese) mandolin

    Looking great - lets hear it! -;

  16. #11
    Registered User tonydxn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Date of Monzino Lombardic (Milanese) mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by Tavy View Post
    Looking great - lets hear it! -;
    Oh dear - I suppose I should have known someone would say that. OK here's a link to me trying to play a simple tune: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMc4linW1RE

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    Registered User Russ Donahue's Avatar
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    Default Re: Date of Monzino Lombardic (Milanese) mandolin

    Nice restoration. Very cool little instrument! Thanks for the youtube clip.
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  19. #13
    Registered User tonydxn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Date of Monzino Lombardic (Milanese) mandolin

    I might add that it's a very awkward instrument to play. Being completely round (unlike a normal bowlback) it wants to slide round in your lap until it's horizontal. I suppose people get used to them.

  20. #14

    Default Re: Date of Monzino Lombardic (Milanese) mandolin

    Quote Originally Posted by tonydxn View Post
    I have just taken delivery of my latest project - a Lombardic or Milanese mandolin by Ant. Monzino with a minor structural issue. I would be grateful if anyone could give me any guidance on the date of this instrument:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	t112d.jpg 
Views:	251 
Size:	439.2 KB 
ID:	156163Click image for larger version. 

Name:	t112f.jpg 
Views:	190 
Size:	341.2 KB 
ID:	156164Click image for larger version. 

Name:	t112g.jpg 
Views:	171 
Size:	294.3 KB 
ID:	156165

    The label in the last shot says '5202' and would originally have been covered, presumably by a slab of MoP.

    Also a couple of bits of further information: It has a hole in the end. Does this mean it should have an endpin? If so, what should it look like?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	t112e.jpg 
Views:	155 
Size:	321.0 KB 
ID:	156166

    Finally, I would appreciate any guidance on string gauges for the standard GBEADG tuning.

    Thank you
    Hello, it certainly dates before 1893. Starting from 1893 Monzino labels indicate only the shop in via Rastrelli and not the via Orefici shop anymore.

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  22. #15
    Registered User tonydxn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Date of Monzino Lombardic (Milanese) mandolin

    Great information, Guidal, many thanks. This instrument went to its new owner long ago, but it's very valuable to have the information on here for anyone looking for it in the future.
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