Grisman's impact only as a mandolinist

[mcgroup53]

I know this is unfair; you can't divorce Grisman's playing from his amazing compositions. But imagine if he never wrote a single tune, no EMD, no Cedar Hill, never formed the Quintet. If his musical career had existed solely on the basis of his skills as a mandolin player working for other people, how would he be regarded?

Would he still be talked about in the same terms as Sam for his impact on mandolin playing? Would he be thought of like Ronnie McCoury or Adam Steffey?

[colorado_al]

It is unfair, because his impact on the mandolin world is so much more than his technical skill, which is quite good and distinctive. He brought forth so much more than playing the mandolin. Besides Dawg music & DGQ, he also played with so many other musicians in so many genres that the mandolin became more than a bluegrass instrument. Sure Jethro Burns and Tiny More played jazz, but they were fading into memory until Dawg played with them and brought them back to the fore. Playing with other great musicians like Stephane Grappelli, Svend Asmussen, and many more made his mandolin playing go in directions that no one else had taken it.

[Bill McCall]

From where I sit, most after him in the bluegrass related world was influenced by him, including Sam, Andy Statman, Ronnie, Adam, Emory and many others. Even if they didn't hear him first, folks probably heard people he had already influenced. If he didn't play anything other than his blazing smooth tremolo, that would be enough for me.

In 197x, when I subscribed to Mandolin World, he was the only mandolin player I knew by name, except for ol' Bill.

The door opened, I walked through.

[Marcus CA]

I guess you would have to look at Grisman playing tunes that he didn't write.

[William Smith]

Would he still be talked about in the same terms as Sam for his impact on mandolin playing? Would he be thought of like Ronnie McCoury or Adam Steffey?[/QUOTE]

I'm sure he would, where would those guys get some of their inspiration? and remember there is a bunch of players from the 60's and 70's whose style is their own, we can't forget the late GREAT John Duffey, My Uncle Gene Johnson I was told was playing Dawg style music at the same time as Dawg, Lets not forget the king of cross pickin and string splitting Jesse McReynolds, The GREAT late Buzz Busby. Bobby Osborne, I don't know I'm younger but to me these were mandolinists whose style was THE original Bad a____ No one plays really like their styles to me its alot of speed pickin.
Maybe I misunderstood the ?.but thats my take

[almeriastrings]

Yes. Undoubtedly.

Just the stuff he did with Tony Rice and Doc Watson alone would be enough - and he's done a heck of a lot more than that.

[AlanN]

Some good remarks so far, sure there will be more.

Yes, to the question - he would be regarded in the upper echelon. Even before the official Dawg era began (with Kaleidoscope F-5 release), he was playing some super cool stuff that nobody did - see his solos on T. Rice Rounder release (Temperance Reel, Rattlesnake); his Rounder Record had some very modern and heretofore not done solos - I Ain't Broke, Waiting On Vassar; Muleskinner - the tremble solo on Rain & Snow.

Surely influenced by Monroe, Osborne and others, he synthesized what he heard into a sound of his own. His playing was at the forefront of its day. And then, as Paul Harvey would have said, came "the rest of the story..."

[Stevo75]

The Doc and Dawg album is a great showcase of Grisman's abilities. Those are mostly (if not all) someone else's songs/tunes.

I would say he is top-tier based solely on technical ability. Certainly on-par with Sam Bush (although that's a tough one), Monroe, Steffey, etc.

Of course there are others that you could say are a level up (again only based on technical ability). Thile for sure, maybe Even Marshall, Dave Apollon, etc.

[NursingDaBlues]

In 1971 and 1972, I was a member of the union board that brought entertainment opportunities to the university I was attending. One of my most memorable times surrounded a three-day, 20-act showcase that we sponsored. During that showcase, I had the opportunity to sit, chat, and pick with two of my all-time heroes: John Hartford and Vassar Clements. Over the course of the three days, we spent four-plus hours together. Both were truly kind and considerate (obviously, to spend the kind of time that they did with a pretty clueless 19-year-old); and they pretty much deflected talk away from themselves, preferring instead to talk of their admiration and respect of others – including folks like Earl Scruggs, Waylon Jennings, and rising performer Jimmy Buffett, all of whom were at the showcase as well. They also spent a considerable amount of time talking of David Grisman when I said that I wished that he could have been part of the showcase. They spoke (and laughed) of his grasp of different styles of music and wanting to “mix it all together,” of his playing, of how he always shared the spotlight, of his ability to find and surround himself with great talent, of how he encouraged that great talent to stretch further, and of how they would play with him “anytime, anywhere.” High praise indeed.

I became aware of David Grisman in maybe 1965 when he was a member of the Even Dozen Jug Band. Since then, I’ve enjoyed his contributions through his various personae in Old And In The Way, Muleskinner, with Jerry Garcia, his collaborations, DGBX, and DGQ. I remain amazed that it seems whenever he asks, highly regarded talent are more than willing to perform with him. I continue to be impressed with his understanding of the nuances of a wide range in styles of music. I’m fascinated that it appears that he continues to be unafraid to experiment and develop and make whatever he plays his own.

There may be others that are more technically proficient. There may be some who broach multiple styles of music. There may be a few who can draw other highly-talented musicians into their midst. But none have the David Grisman's style or panache.

Although I’ve seen him perform several times, I’ve never had the opportunity to meet David Grisman. Even so, I confidently say, “yeah, people would still talk of him. He’s not only the man…he’s Dawg.”

[CarlM]

Speaking just in terms of influence rather than technical accomplishment, his playing on Ripple and a couple of other Grateful Dead tunes probably reached more listeners than about any mandolin playing. His later tours and work with Garcia was really nice and covered a huge range of material from reggae to jazz to George Jones, James Brown, Bob Dylan and old time.

I recently saw one of his shows with Del and even in their 70s those guys played as good of bluegrass as anybody.

I suspect your question would make Sam laugh out loud that you would even think that.

[Denny Gies]

I believe he'd be up there on the Mount Rushmore of mando pickers.

[f5loar]

Yeap, take out the Dawg trade name which would include his style of music based on instrumentals he wrote, he would still be regarded as a leading bluegrass mandolin picker. Maybe along the fame of Frank Wakefield, Buzz Busby, Bill Napier, Sam Bush, but not the fame of Bill Monroe, Bobby Osborne or Jesse McReynolds. It is hard to imagine what he would be without what he is. I just know he was pretty darn good back in the mid 60's after his New York Ramblers won the World's Championship in Union Grove, NC. He later played with many well known bluegrassers like Del McCoury which would have put him on the path to greater fame like Muleskinner, Old in the Way, association with Jerry Garcia. You could probably say the same thing about Tony Rice had he not met Grisman early on.

[Glassweb]

I was thinking of writing a long post here about all the ways David Grisman is THE man, but I'll just make it simple...

David Grisman is THE man. "Nuff said".

[bobby bill]

I remain amazed that it seems whenever he asks, highly regarded talent are more than willing to perform with him.

I don't know who asked whom, but don't forget that amazing tour with Stephane Grappelli. And it seems silly to pick out just one aspect of his playing, just as it seems silly to pick out one aspect of his talent (playing).

[Bill Foss]

I'll pile on to the concensus here. YES! Listen to the CD Early Dawg. Even though it has some of his originals, his playing on the bluegraas standards is original, though steeped in traditional influences, and is excuted with complete mastery.

[doublestoptremolo]

I usually listen to older bluegrass stuff and don't have a lot of his solo albums. But on two separate occasions, when I was listening to early Hazel and Alice (Pioneering Women) and Red Allen (Lonesome and Blue), I had to fish out the liner notes and see who was on mandolin because it was obvious he was just on another level. And I think he was in his very early 20s when he recorded that stuff. I also really like the latest album with Del and think that Grisman is a pretty good singer.

[AlanN]

And if we restrict to just his bluegrass things, a few that standout are

- Home Is Where The Heart Is
- Here Today
- OAITW

All demonstrate the mastery spoken of earlier - melodic solos, crosspicking, rhythm, all done with a synergy on how the mandolin fits in a band.

One early solo that caught my ear was on an Eric Thompson record called Bluegrass Guitar, the tune was Dixie Hoedown. I think the head was twinned (by likely himself with an overdub). Then, he did a takeoff solo, which was short, well-executed and was the perfect blend of old and new.

[sblock]

Are you kidding me?!?

IMO, Dawg's amazing work with the superstar band Muleskinner (with Bill Keith, Richard Greene, Peter Rowan, and Clarence White -- the best of their generation!) was enough, alone, to place him firmly in the pantheon of great bluegrass mandolinists for all time, alongside WSM, Jesse McReynolds, John Duffy, Bobby Osborne, Sam Bush, etc. Add to that his memorable work with Old and In the Way, Early Dawg, etc., and he's firmly established as one of the bluegrass greats. No need to "rely" on any original compositions -- just some fabulous mandolin playing! And let's not forget his incredible duo work with other greats, playing mostly non-Dawg music, such as these albums with:

Sam Bush (Sam & David)
Andy Statman (Songs of our Fathers)
Jerry Garcia (Jerry Garcia & David Grisman, Warfield Theater; Pizza Tapes)
Doc Watson (Watson & Grisman in Concert)

And how about all those great musical projects that, we must concede, really owe NOTHING to his original compositions, including these favorites:

Tone Poems
Tone Poets
Mandolin Extravaganza
David Grisman's Acoustic Christmas

Of course, Dawg would not really be The Dawg without Dawg music, but David Grisman would still be considered one of the very best players. So, it's not even close!

[MikeZito]

Grisman's recording of Nine Pound Hammer (with Doc Watson) was one of my earliest influences, and I listen to it regularly, even to this day . . .

[j. condino]

I was thinking of writing a long post here about all the ways David Grisman is THE man, but I'll just make it simple...

David Grisman is THE man. "Nuff said".

+1000

David made the mandolin as cool as Miles made the trumpet.

[Loubrava]

I got to see his Bluegrass band last summer and was surprised and blown away how good a 5 piece BG could sound I don't think there coulda been a better mando player up on stage than than him, maybe some equal or faster/flashier but none I'd call better.

[Charlie Bernstein]

Ditto on Grappelli!

[T.D.Nydn]

I first became aware of him in the early 70's ,,and saw him play in San Francisco in 1978,,and it was just an amazing performance,,with Tony rice and the full gang...

[Don Grieser]

If the only thing you heard was his tremolo, that would be enough. The best.

[Bill Foss]

I usually listen to older bluegrass stuff and don't have a lot of his solo albums. But on two separate occasions, when I was listening to early Hazel and Alice (Pioneering Women) and Red Allen (Lonesome and Blue), I had to fish out the liner notes and see who was on mandolin because it was obvious he was just on another level. And I think he was in his very early 20s when he recorded that stuff. I also really like the latest album with Del and think that Grisman is a pretty good singer.

Yes, those albums are completely underrated Grisman accomplishments.