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Thread: Newly installed Schaller tuners

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Newly installed Schaller tuners

    I got a set of Gold-ivoroid A's.
    My Iphone pix can't match that Schaller shot but here's a comparison with Grover 309. Traditionalists will want to skip both but if you are looking for performance under $500 either of these will work. Clearly a different look for the Grand Tunes but exceptionally well built. Why Grover insists that the plates be so huge I can't understand. Also the plating on the Schallers looks so much better. And the buttons, no comparison. The Schallers a wonderfully swirly. The Schaller plates are thicker and more stiff than the Grover and everything about the Schallers is tight and precise.
    However... the feel when turning them off the mandolin, the Grovers are much smoother and more even feeling from one post to the next. The Schallers have a catch in them as you spin them. Some posts are looser than others. The Grovers are nearly identical from one to the next. I attribute this to their use of teflon bushings. If there's any in the Schallers they aren't visible. However I bet that this problem will dissapear once they are installed and strung. Unfortunately that might be some time for me.
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  2. #27
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    Default Re: Newly installed Schaller tuners

    All parts is listing these as in stock, the gold A styles are listed for $252.00. Is that gonna be the going price? I'd love to put a set of these on my Red Diamond A. The old Schallers are shot, the top A string slips and doesn't hold tune very long at all. I guess the years of road life with Micheal Kang has worn them out. I've tried the Grover 309s and there just a hair too long for the head stick.Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	160007. I couldn't live with that so I sent them back. Any of you that have had these in your hands, would you expect these to be a direct drop in replacement for the old Schallers. I don't mind to spend the money and this instrument definitely deserves them but I'd like to not have to drill additional screw holes if at all possible.
    Collings MF
    Parsons A1
    Kentucky 805

  3. #28

    Default Re: Newly installed Schaller tuners

    Quote Originally Posted by ChCollins View Post
    Any of you that have had these in your hands, would you expect these to be a direct drop in replacement for the old Schallers. I don't mind to spend the money and this instrument definitely deserves them but I'd like to not have to drill additional screw holes if at all possible.
    As far as post spacing goes, the new Schaller GrandTunes should be a direct drop-in if the original holes are properly spaced. I suspect that Don MacRostie uses the StewMac drilling jig so the holes should be very accurate on your Red Diamond.

    A problem could arise with the bushings. If your mandolin has the original Schaller bushings that came with the set of tuners, you would have to leave them in and use them with the new "GrandTunes" to avoid filling and re-drilling. That's because the old style Schaller bushings require a larger diameter hole than the new style or any other brand of tuner that I know of. Using the old Schaller bushings (in properly spaced holes) should be fine although I suspect that Schaller would recommend against it.

    If your bushings are not the original Schallers, (some makers swap them out for smaller more traditional looking bushings) you may or may not be able to install the bushings that come with the new "GrandTunes" without reaming the existing holes.. The GrandTune bushings require a peghole diameter of .348" (letter drill "S") which is the same as the "Golden Age" tuner bushings. If the Red Diamond uses Golden Age bushings, the new Schaller bushings should fit right in. If the Red Diamond uses the traditional, stamped grommet style bushings, I would highly recommend reaming the holes for the new Schaller bushings. The grommet style bushings have too much "slop" for the precision machining of the GrandTunes.

    Summing up,using the bushings that come with the GrandTunes is the best option as the fit is right and the material superior for wear and low friction. Using other existing bushings may be OK if they have a good fit on the GrandTune shafts. (not too sloppy).

    As for screw holes, I don't know if they are the same as the old style Schallers. If the holes do not line up perfectly, you would have to fill and re-drill. Ill fitting screw holes can put stress on the mechanism that results in poor function.

    In my experience, the majority of problems with any tuners come from improper installation issues but get blamed on the tuners.
    www.apitiusmandolins.com

    What is good Phaedrus? and what is not good?, need we ask anyone to tell us these things?

  4. #29
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    Default Re: Newly installed Schaller tuners

    Thanks for the information Oliver. I'm pretty sure what I have is the more traditional bushings.Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	160014 Would I be correct? I do believe I'm gonna go for it.
    Collings MF
    Parsons A1
    Kentucky 805

  5. #30

    Default Re: Newly installed Schaller tuners

    It's hard for me to tell for sure if you have the traditional stamped grommet style or gold plated Golden Age bushings that are made to look like the stamped type. Although I'm leaning towards stamped.

    If they are stamped, I would not use them for the new GrandTunes. Rather, ream out the peghead side of the hole to .348" using an "S" letter drill bit. The reamer that StewMac sells requires a 1/4" pilot hole to guide it in, otherwise it will likely make a sloppy mess.
    Before using the size "S" drill, it is a good idea to champher the edges of the existing hole a little with a hand held counter sink or a larger size drill held between you fingers and gently rotated to "break" the edges of the hole. Be very carefull with the letter drill. I like to use a hand drill for this (the original cordless ) but a variable speed drill can also be used. Wrap some tape around the drill bit to act as a depth guage. The Schaller bushings should then press in with light force.

    If the bushings you have now are Golden Age, the Schallers should be direct replacements. I use a hardwood dowel to push out the old bushings from the back side of the peghead.

    If needed, the old screw holes can be filled with a drop of glue and a round toothpick. Alternately, a small dowel can be whittled from a piece of hardwood. When the glue dries, carefully trim off any protruding dowel with a small, sharp chisel or an exacto type blade. You can now re-drill the holes even if they are very close to the original holes. I believe that the Schaller GrandTunes come with instructions on how to drill accurately placed holes for the screws. This is also important to do if you want to get the maximum benefit from the new tuners.

    Anyway, I'm sure you can do it if you just take your time and do it right.
    www.apitiusmandolins.com

    What is good Phaedrus? and what is not good?, need we ask anyone to tell us these things?

  6. #31
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    Default Re: Newly installed Schaller tuners

    Thanks again! I will definitely proceed with caution. For those who might be shopping for these the best deal I could find was at TouchTone Tonewoods in the U.K. 103e for gold A style, came out to $147usd with shipping. That's still $100 cheaper than the only US supplier that I could find showing these in stock. https://www.touchstonetonewoods.co.u...-machine-head/
    Collings MF
    Parsons A1
    Kentucky 805

  7. #32

    Default Re: Newly installed Schaller tuners

    Addendum: Some of the info that I posted is not correct. The Schaller GT tuner bushings do require a .348" diameter hole but the Golden Age tuners use a .328" hole (21/64ths)
    So, you will have to enlarge the bushing holes in either case to .348" (letter "S" drill).

    If your present bushings are the Golden Age (not stamped) you could probably get away with leaving them in there but you would not get the benifit of a better fit and better alloy.

    Sorry for the confusion. I was typing from the top of my head and also, apparently, out of a lower part of my anatomy.
    www.apitiusmandolins.com

    What is good Phaedrus? and what is not good?, need we ask anyone to tell us these things?

  8. #33
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    Default Re: Newly installed Schaller tuners

    Those look like the stamped "traditional" bushings. I would highly recommend replacing them. This is a good place to use modern technology over traditional looks. This may have made some sense when the option was those old Schaller monsters but not now.

  9. #34
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    Default Re: Newly installed Schaller tuners

    I received the Grandtune's today. Exactly one week from the U.K., that's good service. Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	160180. All of the screw holes but the very top line up perfectly. They do have way too much space inside of the old bushings. Thanks to the help mentioned above I'll go ahead and aquire the proper .348 s drill bit before proceeding.
    Collings MF
    Parsons A1
    Kentucky 805

  10. #35

    Default Re: Newly installed Schaller tuners

    Be very careful with that drill. Sometimes, when enlarging a hole by just a small amount, the bit can grab and pull it's way down the hole very rapidly, causing all kinds of tear out. That's why I prefer a traditional hand-crank drill for this purpose. A variable speed cordless can do but proceed slowly and with great caution. A brand new well sharpened drill bit should help. As I mentioned before, it's a good idea to bevel the edges of the holes slightly with a hand held countersink before drilling.

    Good luck! Please post photos of the completed install.
    www.apitiusmandolins.com

    What is good Phaedrus? and what is not good?, need we ask anyone to tell us these things?

  11. #36
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    Default Re: Newly installed Schaller tuners

    Well I finished up the install of the Grandtunes. I must say they are a huge improvement over the old Schallers. Now that I've got new Evo frets, thanks to John Hamlet, and tuners that will hold tune this old girl never sounded better!Click image for larger version. 

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    Collings MF
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    Kentucky 805

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  13. #37
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    Default Re: Newly installed Schaller tuners

    Any distributor in USA that sells these Schaller Grandtuners for a F5 ?
    My two favorite pastimes are drinking wine and playing the mandolin but most of my friends would rather hear me drink wine! Adapted from quote by Mark Twain

  14. #38
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    Default Re: Newly installed Schaller tuners

    Allparts.com stock these Schaller GT tuners !
    My two favorite pastimes are drinking wine and playing the mandolin but most of my friends would rather hear me drink wine! Adapted from quote by Mark Twain

  15. #39
    Registered User Billy Packard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Newly installed Schaller tuners

    I've had a new set of GrandTune installed on my Gilchrist A3. They are wonderful and smooth as budda. They excude quality. I got the satin silver with ebony buttons and they look so good.

    My friend, Greg Merkin, who installed them mentioned a bit about the slightly different hole size. The installation came off just fine.

    I bought directly from the owner at Schaller, Dr. Lars Bunning who replied to my every email personally. I think that was cool! The cost to my door was $211.07 US. (Eu was 175.95 complete.)

    I had been frustrated with the old Gotoh tuners Stephen Gilchrist had installed during the original build in 1993. Admittedly they were 24 years old but they were not holding up. Heck, I have a Gibson from 1923 and those tuners work fine.


    Billy

    billypackardmandolin.com

    ps Stephen Gilchrist did recommend this product to me.
    Billy Packard
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  16. #40
    Registered User Jill McAuley's Avatar
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    Default Re: Newly installed Schaller tuners

    Anyone put the GrandTunes on their Collings MT/MTO? I'm wavering between these or Rubners.

    Cheers,

    Jill

  17. #41
    music with whales Jim Nollman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Newly installed Schaller tuners

    My Altman has Rubners. My BRW has Grand Tunes. I think the Rubners have slightly more zing, but only because, after 18 months, I still pause to admire the finely detailed black against silver metal etching. Then again, I also like the copper poles against ebony buttons of the Grand Tunes. Mechanically, the two brands are equally smooth. I'd say the grand tunes are built slightly more beefy, but not to any real world advantage.

    Maybe you can tell me what it is about A strings that no matter what tuners I use, those particular strings still don't stay in tune for more than half an hour.
    Explore some of my published music here

    óJim

    BRW 3-point #65 (2009)
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  19. #42
    Registered User Lane Pryce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Newly installed Schaller tuners

    Grand Tunes with ebony buttons are available where? Lp
    J.Lane Pryce

  20. #43
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    Default Re: Newly installed Schaller tuners

    Quote Originally Posted by Lane Pryce View Post
    Grand Tunes with ebony buttons are available where? Lp
    allparts.com out of California
    My two favorite pastimes are drinking wine and playing the mandolin but most of my friends would rather hear me drink wine! Adapted from quote by Mark Twain

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