A Potentially Touchy Question

[Tobin]

If you choose to go with one instrument over the other because a bunch of strangers on the internet told you to, then you're not really being true to yourself. Only you can decide which instrument makes you happier, or which one you feel most connected to and which will give you the most utility.

This is a mandolin forum, remember. Which way do you think the answers are going to swing?

I, like most multi-instrumentalists, have a similar dilemma. Life is very busy and I have limited time to play each day. I can't put the amount of effort into the guitar, mandolin, banjo and fiddle that I want to. But I'm not willing to choose only one. For my situation, I'm happier being able to play all of them at a mediocre level rather than limiting myself to only one instrument and focusing solely on that. But if you feel that your time and ability require you to pick one, then pick the one that calls to you. But for heaven's sake, don't ask a bunch of mandolin players whether you should choose the dobro!

[Bill McCall]

Of course you should play dobro. You never see 6 dobro players at a jam, but you may see 6 Mando players.

Let's not even bring up banjos.

[sblock]

I was at a jam once with 6 Dobros. It wasn't pretty.

[red7flag]

I was in a jam with 2 dobro players trying to outdo each other and it wasn't pretty. Well for that matter I have been in a jam with one really obnoxious banjo player that was definately not pretty.

[Mike Scott]

Thanks again. I think what I will do is emphasize the mandolin for my daily playing. Here in The Bend area we have 3 Irish sessions monthly (1 "normal" at a cafe and 2 slow learning sessions at a private home). There are also 3 jams called bluegrass jams although the variety of music is wide ranging as far as genres go...... anyway while I can play maybe 10 Irish tunes (only one up to tempo) I can do on the mandolin there what I do with the reso at the bluegrass jams which is tastefully noodle around in the key adding some backup until (if) I ever get up to tempo on more tunes. I am generally the lone mandolin player at these plus no one (even me) can hear the mandolin anyway, so if I'm enjoying myself-who cares-I think I've been looking for perfection here, which just isn't going to happen.

At the bluegrass jams I'll take the mandolin and dobro. There's usually 5-6 mandolin pickers. I can take breaks and lead songs on it and pull out the dobro for backing and fills on some.

I really enjoy my daily playing of mandolin way more than dobro, so I guess for now that's the plan along with my poor guitar blues finger picking which isn't fit for public consumption...... once again thanks so much for all the comments. Those and a thread on The Session helped me to this decision. Of course subject to change as early as tomorrow-ha ha

[catmandu2]

Of course subject to change as early as tomorrow-ha ha

Nailed it

Here's why the forum is such a great thing for us: who else is going to listen to us ruminate endlessly and validate our neuroses about our toys and hobbies..?

*And btw, I doubt if there are many who're more neurotic about this than myself - I currently play half-dozen or more instr families...and this is completely other than guitars, banjos and mandolins, with which my hands are no longer able to cope. I experienced tremendous angst, especially, over giving up guitar - which I'd been with for several decades and had much identity with..

[NursingDaBlues]

When most acoustic instrument players think of gifted musicians, they tend to think of the Chris Thiles, the Bela Flecks, or the Doc Watsons of the industry. And rightly so. Musicians of this caliber are few and far between.

But there is another, substantially larger group of musicians that are gifted. These are everyday musicians who are able to grasp and understand what chords are being played, the key, and how their instrument can blend with other instruments just by listening to a song. They are able to sit in any given jam session with just their knowledge of chord progressions, pentatonic scales, and the basic understanding of the nuances in the style of music being played. They are able to learn new licks, new chords, new tunings, and new ways to adapt what they’ve learned into their playing with a few days or maybe a few weeks of practice sessions. They know where the fingers of their left and right hand are and what they’re doing without really thinking about it. With a couple of runs through a song they understand the concept, so they start focusing on the lyrics, or start developing ways to make the song their own. They are able to do all or parts of all this without having to stop and think; their eyes, their ears, their hands, and their mind are in sync. Folks who are able to do this and more are truly gifted, although they may not realize it.

However, these everyday gifted musicians may not have really stopped to consider the rest of the world. And I don’t know if these musicians can truly understand the struggles everyone else may have.

Those of you who teach or may have taught a group acoustic instrument class, and those of you who have taken a group class to learn how to play an instrument, have you ever thought about the drop-outs and why they dropped out? Many do because they feel that they are unable to keep up. They drop out because they struggle with basics of finger positioning and developing muscle memory. They drop out because they can’t grasp the concepts that are being presented. They drop out because, while they have good intentions at the beginning of the day, they abruptly find themselves at the end of a busy, busy day without an opportunity to practice – day after day after day. Or they drop out because their brain, while it may be excellent at accounting, medicine, law, mechanics, carpentry, or any number of other things, just doesn’t have that musician “wiring” established yet.

But then…there are those few who are not “gifted,” but they hang in there as best they can. They may have the same problems or issues as those who dropped out. But their love for music and their desire to learn to play an instrument is just as strong as the “gifted” musicians. These folks who hang in there may continue to labor over finger placement with each chord change; they may struggle with keeping up with other musicians in a jam; they may become frustrated at their pace or lack of progress. To which I challenge them to think about where they were before they started, and what they are able to do now. If a person has a catalog of ten songs after ten years of study, then that’s ten more songs than what they had when they started. No matter how you look at it, it’s still progress. And if they are progressing, then they should be proud of that catalog.

Not everyone can be a Chris Thile, a Bela Fleck, or a Doc Watson. Not everyone is destined to be on stage. Not everyone is destined to get to a pro-level of expertise. But if you have a love of music and have that desire to play an instrument, then by all means continue on. And continue on with as few or as many instruments as you want. Music is one thing you can do for you.

[Payton]

I'm with what both Tobin, and NursingDaBlues have said. I'm kinda jealous though cause I'm not on tract for being able to play that many tunes regardless of tempo when I reach the amount of time you've been playing. :-)

[allenhopkins]

I think a lot of Post #32 above is spot-on. I would just add that experience, especially experience in playing with others, supplies a lot of what others may see as "talent."

I've been playing pretty seriously for about 50 years now (Aack! That long..?), and lots of that playing experience was at jams, sing-arounds, informal living-room sessions where I was not the leader or the main instrumentalist. I just wanted to fit in, so I listened to what others were doing, and tried to fit my own playing around what was going on. This may have meant picking up the chords, trying to copy the melody others were playing, or improvising a part that would complement the melody, provide a harmony or counterpoint.

So you do this long enough, and you can get good at it. Now, people will ask me, "How can you play along with this song I just wrote, that you've never heard before?" It's a combination of learning all the standard progressions, the melodic cliches (sorry that sounds like a negative, but not intended as one) that writers use frequently in building a song or tune, the variations that are often associated with different musical styles -- bluegrass, old-timey, jazz, Celtic, klezmer. It's gotten to where I can "hear the changes coming" before the tune gets there -- circle of fifths, relative minor, two/seventh chord before the five chord, whatever.

Not that I've ever felt like this was a special talent, just the results of listening to and playing acoustic instruments for a half-century. I will also add, that a little bit of theory (I picked up most of what I know in a middle school music class) has been helpful: how you build a chord, what makes it "major," "minor," "seventh," "diminished" etc., why some intervals sound like harmonies, others like dissonances. I don't consciously draw on this knowledge, but it's been internalized sufficiently to be ready when needed.

So perhaps it's more accumulated experience, than natural talent. Both are needed, but one can actually be acquired -- through persistence, and love of the music.

[multidon]

Hey guys, referring back to post #6 where Willie won't allow a Dobro in his band because Bill Monroe didn't have one...

Years ago I had the opportunity to see Dr. Ralph Stanley and his band. Now, that's a Bluegrass pedigree at least almost as good as Ol' Bill's, isn't it? Well, he had a Weissenborn player in his band. Please excuse my ignorance, but isn't a Weissenborn basically a non-resonator version of a Dobro? Just wondering. At the time I had never heard of one before, and I thought it sounded really good in that setting.

[Mike Scott]

Well, I'll jump in here. The squareneck reso is typically tuned to open G (GBDGBD) at least for bluegrass , while the Weissenborn to open D (please correct me if I'm wrong). The latter is used in all types of music. If you dig the sound check out some Ben Harper stuff......

[Jim Garber]

[QUOTE=Mike Scott;1568372 Basically I only have time to play either the mandolin or the squareneck reso. Both have pros and cons to them. [/QUOTE]

Is it really either/or? To be ridiculous, what are you so busy with? You have played both instrument for years so why give up one?

Also, I think I may have suggested this for mandolin on another thread: if you are comfortable playing a dobro or guitar with fingerpicks try using them on a mandolin. Nothing wrong with trying and see if that works better for you.

[catmandu2]

If you dig the sound check out some Ben Harper stuff......

I did want to go down the Weissenborn hole there for a while - was into BH, but Lindley well before that (BH tells how he used to hear DL playing in his parent's store - apparently was his entree into the instrument as well).

Oh well...cant do it all

Re: if you're anything like me, you'll not rid yourself of 'the sound' of steel guitar, try as you may. But I was hit early - as a young boy emulating the Looney Tunes theme on an old broken guitar. (There'll likely be a burgeoning number of players in the future: what with all the steel in Spongebob SP, not to mention Mr Dave, the crossover success of JD, et al - I think the pedal steel is the instrument of the future...then again maybe the electric guitar, or synth )

[ivantotakeuhigher]

Playing the Dobro is cheaper, because there's no such thing and Dobro Aquisition Syndrome. At least, not that I ever heard of.

I know someone who owns about 30 Dobros by various builders. I own 6 and I plan to keep them

[Petrus]

Well there are reso-mandos, and maybe you could retune one in GBDG and play it with a slide, sort of have your cake and eat it too?

(Or is it eat your cake and have it too? Sounds weird but that does make more sense chronologically.)

[Johnny60]

A BIG +1 to Nursing da blues and Allen Hopkins for posts 32 and 34. Absolutely spot on. Practise, learn, challenge yourself, play with other people and learn lots of songs and tunes. The structures of so many songs follow certain frameworks. So you're playing along to a country, folk or bluegrass song that you've never heard before in G - it's a fair bet that it's going to go to C or D next. Or possibly Em.

Or you're playing along to a blues or rock'n'roll number that you've never heard before, in E. Next chord? Probably A or B.

You're playing a country, folk, bluegrass, blues or rock'n'roll song that you've never heard before in G. It comes to the chorus/middle 8 - there's a decent probability that this section might also have an A in it. You might miss it the first time around, but it'll be there the next time.

Why? Because, as Allen pointed out, there are tried and tested formulas that hundreds of thousands of songs have been written around so, if you play enough of them, you'll soon be able to think "ahh, it's a 1,4,5 progression" (G, C, D). Or one of those C, Am, F, G kinds of songs.

And yes, we all learn at different levels and speeds, and we're all wired differently too. But most of us should be able to make progress with practise and dedication - it's just that, for some, the progress will be rocket-powered, for most it will be slow and steady, and for a few it might seem painfully slow. But it's also all about the journey.

Have fun!

Johnny

Of course, there are a lot of songs that don't follow these old formulas, but the majority do.

[Jim Garber]

Playing the Dobro is cheaper, because there's no such thing and Dobro Aquisition Syndrome. At least, not that I ever heard of.

The Internet has exacerbated all kinds of Acquisition Syndromes. I was talking to a fellow instrument enthusiast the other day and we started talking about cast iron cookware. He directed me to a site ina parallel universe that looks like this one and where people collect vintage cast iron fry pans and the like. Who knew?