70281 Loar has been worked on by Steve Gilchrist

[Hendrik Ahrend]

This image here is one of the cooler ones I've seen so far through Loar documentation.. the exposed FON under the signature label! This is quite a cool thing as FONs on "unsigned" loars are very very close in FON

A cool image, as you say, Dan. May I humbly point out that Loar #79835, signed Dec. 1924, has the exact FON as the "unsigned" Loars. And according to Joe Spam, both FONs 11065 and 11985 are from 1923.
I still suspect that all Loar F5s, except maybe for the Fern Loars - which are significantly different - were made in 1922 and 1923, sans tuners and signature label until just prior to shipping.

[danb]

A cool image, as you say, Dan. May I humbly point out that Loar #79835, signed Dec. 1924, has the exact FON as the "unsigned" Loars. And according to Joe Spam, both FONs 11065 and 11985 are from 1923.
I still suspect that all Loar F5s, except maybe for the Fern Loars - which are significantly different - were made in 1922 and 1923, sans tuners and signature label until just prior to shipping.

Yes, I've heard a convincing theory that the order book was basically just a common receipt book paired with a simple ink stamper that lets you change the digits. The logic went that one of these books reached 999 or 9999 you'd get a new one. Sometimes the numbers jump around a little making some boundaries confusing, but generally they go in the sequence that they were built.

There are other theories that there were specialists or consultants involved in building the F5s- not all done by the same guys working on the main volume builds. Could be. There's a convincing case that Ed Heron-Allen was a finish consultant, as much of the _violin making as it is and was_ book seems on the mark for Loar finish.

Back to 70281- yes indeed it is the earliest known signed Loar. I expect that there were a couple more with earlier serials built (so likely shipped!), and then probably more that never made it out the door. It's a leap of faith to say that these "great" sounding ones (the '22s I've seen are unusually mighty) were made as a completed whole without any research or castaways or mistakes too!

But essentially it boils down to a couple things:
- probably 95% of the factors to make great mandolins existed before and after Loar at Gibson
- The early ones show experimental phases and features, the later ones are more uniform.. the changes probably involved scaling up operations, making more at a time.
- the signature labels correlate with a lot of the great ones, hence they command great value and certainty

Even from just those sound clips, I already think that 70281 is perhaps more interesting as the best-sounding Loar I've ever heard.

[Atlanta Mando Mike]

Lord that mandolin sounds good in Grisman's hands...but then again, so would a cardboard cutout of a mandolin. Nobody has better tone than Dawg.

[Drew Streip]

Let's see...

Sounds more like Monroe Tone than Monroe's axe...

Both received damage...

Hmmm.....

Now where'd I put that hammer....

I took my mandolin to Asheville this weekend and was not able to insulate my mandolin from the cold weather. Then I read this thread and started thinking, a crack might not be the worst thing in the world!

[Phil Goodson]

Just heard that the entire story of this repair, described by Steve Gilchrist and complete with pictures will be published in the January issue of the Fretboard Journal #38. Can't wait. BTW, a partial article is on their website.

[Mike Black]

Just heard that the entire story of this repair, described by Steve Gilchrist and complete with pictures will be published in the January issue of the Fretboard Journal #38. Can't wait. BTW, a partial article is on their website.

It's there now!

https://www.fretboardjournal.com/fea...s-second-life/

[f5loar]

It's been what 94 years and there has not been another one to surface between this June 1 and the next one at Nov. 28. I'd say there ain't another one. Likely this June 1 kept going back for experimental re-dos. There are however a few missing serial nos. from the Nov. 28 and Dec. 20. dates so possible one of those missing ones could be another proto-type.

[Hendrik Ahrend]

It's been what 94 years and there has not been another one to surface between this June 1 and the next one at Nov. 28. I'd say there ain't another one. Likely this June 1 kept going back for experimental re-dos. There are however a few missing serial nos. from the Nov. 28 and Dec. 20. dates so possible one of those missing ones could be another proto-type.

As Joe Spann indicates, roughly, the ser.-#s can be linked to shipping and warranty purposes, the FONs to the manufacturing process. Since we actually have a pick guard with a #70279 stamp, there should be a good chance for an F5 #70279 to have existed at some point or even exist - a pre #70281 F5, that is.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Mike - My grateful thanks for the Fretboard Journal link. We all knew that the mandolin had been badly damaged,but i was horrified to see just how severe the damage actually was. This has to go down as a spectacular restoration alongside Charlie Derrington's Bill Monroe Loar restoration (IMHO). Truly awesomer skill & workmanship. I wish somebody would do the same for Bill Monroe's Loar - maybe someday when the whole stupidity of keeping it in a glass case to be gawked at is realised,but i won't hold my breath !,
Ivan

[Phil Goodson]

Mike - My grateful thanks for the Fretboard Journal link. We all knew that the mandolin had been badly damaged,but i was horrified to see just how severe the damage actually was. This has to go down as a spectacular restoration alongside Charlie Derrington's Bill Monroe Loar restoration (IMHO). Truly awesomer skill & workmanship. I wish somebody would do the same for Bill Monroe's Loar - maybe someday when the whole stupidity of keeping it in a glass case to be gawked at is realised,but i won't hold my breath !,
Ivan

Are you suggesting re-doing Charlie Derrington's restoration????

[HoGo]

Are you suggesting re-doing Charlie Derrington's restoration????

Now that's impossible as CD used epoxy to glue it back together. And he had to darken the finish considerably to hide the repairs. I believe the repair could be cleaner if he just took the time and glued it back splinter after splinter with HHG (now loking at the pics of 70281 the damage of Monroes Loar looks like quite starightforward job). Gilchrist didn't have the comfort of clean fresh surfaces but ugly mess of chips and old filler and crossgrain cuts and breaks. And once he wants to redo the work, his use of HHG makes it possible.

[Ivan Kelsall]

In answer to Philpool's question - Of course not. IMHO,Bill's iconic mandolin should be inspected by somebody like Steve Gilchrist, & if anything needs doing to put it in good playing order,it should be done. I'm thinking more in terms of a neck re-set / re-fret etc. rather than 'body work'.
Is Bill Monroe's mandolin inspected periodically to ensure it's stability,or is it simply left to deteriorate ?,
Ivan

[Fretbear]

Just subscribed to FJ to be sure to receive the full article and pictures. There is one shot of the top at an acute angle where you can see the top "filler", which reassured me that SG is still actually a human being; as he says, when looked at straight down, you can imagine that nothing happened. An absolutely outstanding restoration.

[Tavy]

Just subscribed to FJ to be sure to receive the full article and pictures. There is one shot of the top at an acute angle where you can see the top "filler", which reassured me that SG is still actually a human being; as he says, when looked at straight down, you can imagine that nothing happened. An absolutely outstanding restoration.

+1.

Close up it looks like the mess of lines where it was put back together are visible, but compared to what it was before it's amazing. Besides as Steve said, best cosmetic solution was to just replace the whole of one side of the top, or failing that at least refinish. The most important thing is that it's stable, playable, and sounding great again. And of course that the owner is happy - whoever they are I bet they are too

[mandotool]

Steve has put up an overview of the restoration on his site ..
Lots more photos and detail....and a sound clip..
Good on ye Steve .

http://www.gilchristmandolins.com/70281-restore

[JAK]

Seems like it should have an additional label, reading, "Restored by Steve Gilchrist, October 2016."

[mandotool]

More music from Steve Gilchrist..
Playing the Monroe tune "Jekyll Island" and backed by an original lineup of bluegrass boys..Tom Ewing (guitar), Blake Williams (banjo), Glen Duncan (fiddle) and Mark Hembree (bass)....And some nice twinning with Mike Compton.
Monroe camp 2015 concert at Carter Vintage..

[mandotool]

Hmmm...lemmy try that link again..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9q7ohjAc6E

[JAK]

There is a video on You Tube posted today (11/26/16) of Mark Maglashan playing this mandolin.

[Hendrik Ahrend]

There is a video on You Tube posted today (11/26/16) of Mark Maglashan playing this mandolin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxUVeyNk9Ig

[Don Grieser]

Old Ebeneezer Scrooge. Love that E string. Let me embed that for posterity.

[Fretbear]

That original fret placement is so outrageously off; Steve's picture puts an end to any argument on that matter......

"Gibson fretboards are terrible, and the Loar years the worst......"

Norman Blake