Hornpipe rhythm vs reel; mandolin vs fiddle on hornpipes

[s1m0n]

English country dance 'hornpipes' - in 3/2 rather than a swung 4/4 - have nothing in common but the name with Irish hornpipes. Different rhythm, different melody, different steps, and they're a century earlier. They're not the same tunes at all. Totally a different musical category.

[HonketyHank]

English country dance 'hornpipes' - in 3/2 rather than a swung 4/4 - have nothing in common but the name with Irish hornpipes. Different rhythm, different melody, different steps, and they're a century earlier. They're not the same tunes at all. Totally a different musical category.

Interesting. Could you post an example?

[Gelsenbury]

Interesting. Could you post an example?

Here's one: https://youtu.be/Epw5WBuwvig

[Ausdoerrt]

That's way cool, now I gotta try playing some of those. Any recommendations?

[cbakewell]

Rust Gulley (as performed above) is one that plays well on mandolin.

I love the 3/2 Hornpipes, and have collected just about every one that I could find in the ABC archives.

FWIW, these are not the 'English Style' Hornpipes I referred to my previous post - definitely wouldn't try dancing a sailor's hornpipe to any of these

[Ausdoerrt]

I found this rendition, and I like it a lot:

[foldedpath]

And from one player to another.

Hornpipes in general swing or bounce more than a reel, like dotted eighth sixteenth, (apple apple apple apple) but I have rarely seen a hornpipe written out that way. If I play a hornpipe as if it were a reel, with straight eighths (watermelon watermelon), to me it just sounds boring.

That's how I think of it too. Hornpipes need a little bounce to sound lively, but the degree will vary tremendously from one player to another, or one OldTime jam or Irish session gathering to another. There is still always a wee bit of bounce in there somewhere, or it doesn't sound like a hornpipe to my ears.

I error the other way. I tend to bounce my reels a little too much.

Ah, but reels are self-correcting in that respect. As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, you can't bounce 'em too much if you're playing at anything close to actual dance tempos. There just isn't time between the notes.


With reels at dance tempo (circa 105-112 bpm counted as 2/2) we're free to concentrate on other things, like getting a good drive and pulse going with the rhythm.

As general advice to the OP, I'd say beware of YouTube examples for getting the rhythm feel of a reel, unless they're played close to actual dance tempos where you can hear the subtleties of drive, lift, and degree of emphasis (or not) on the backbeat. With all due respect to my fellow mandolinists, many examples by amateur players on mandolin are just too slow. I'm often guilty of this too, when practicing mandolin at home. Playing in a local session is a good corrective for that, where I'm reminded of the degree of lift and drive the fiddlers, whistlers, and pipers manage at faster tempos.

The example linked early in the thread of Kevin Burke and John Carty is a good tempo to shoot for. The Beare Island reel at the end of the clip runs about 108 bpm (counting 2/2), which is about the tempo I hear reels played in many local session. Some higher-end sessions might go a bit faster, and if you're playing for dancers they might like it closer to 112-115 bpm. But I think somewhere around 108 bpm is a good target for learning, and of course it sounds great in Kevin's hands. If you're playing at that tempo you won't be swinging dotted quarter notes because there just isn't time. Focus on the straight-ahead pulse instead.

I'll leave y'all with this clip I've posted before from fiddler Jamie Laval, where he literally walks you through the reasons why reels are played in this range of tempos: