D R mandolin strings

[Ivan Kelsall]

If by ''intonation'',we mean how sharp or flat a string(s) will sound against how they should sound, then i have to admit to not understanding how intonation problems can arise by using ''different'' string brands. Personally,i've tried 5 different brands of string with no 'intonation' problems at all. Some strings i didn't like the sound of,but the intonation was always ok. I've also changed string gauges with no problems either. The only problem i had was with a rogue G string in a set of J74's 3 years or so back - a new string put that right.

My 3 mandolins sound great with the strings i currently use,but having tried GHS A270's which sound superb on my Ellis,on my Weber,they just didn't suit at all. The .016" A strings were way too bright sounding. If i had intonation problems,i'd be checking nut slot depth,bridge placement,string height etc. Ultimately,a string is a string, & one brand of (say) 'A' string of the same gauge as another brand & fitted in exactly the same way,might sound tonally different,but IMHO,the intonation shouldn't be affected unless something other than the string changes = very odd !,
Ivan

[Willie Poole]

Billy, John Duffey once told me that he always found that new strings intonate on the sharp side, I have never noticed this but when I install new strings I always check the intonation and I find that some different brands and different gauges do cause intonation differences, I have talked this over with Ivan before and can`t understand why he doesn`t find a difference but I am sure he knows what he is doing and saying....

One other thing, if you don`t cut off the excess string for 24 hours then you must not play the instrument during that time as the DR strings and J-74`s always seem to have about 11-14 inches of too much strings...Lol

I also got a free set of strings from DR, the Dragon Skin strings and I cannot tell any difference in those being coated than I can with the regular strings...They have been on now for about two weeks and sound pretty good except for the E strings which seem dead....The A strings also are a little shrill up the neck but I don`t play way up there very much so I don`t mind that...I will say that I will not change from my regular strings, GHS A-270`s and start using the DR`s, I am sure they cost more and aren`t really any better to my ears, everyone to their own taste though...

I all ways enjoy the comments that you and Ivan post on here so keep them coming...

Willie

[Billy Packard]

Ivan,

Regarding my comments on intonation, I am referring only to the wound strings. I didn't make that clear at the outset. The plain wire strings are predictably consistent.

Specifically, from the open position with both strings tuned the same, when fretted at the 5th fret one of the strings has gone quite sharp. Fretted at the octave shows even more increase.

Wound strings have a lot more going on with a steel core wire, then another wire made of a different material and a different gauge wrapped around it. When brought up to pitch the core wire is taking the tension directly, hence differently than the wrap. The wrap wants to slide and/or rotate. This creates a different pattern of stress along the string. In a post above I showed how after I removed the first set I measured the diameter of the wound strings every couple of inches and found much variation along the length. The replacement set DR sent me showed variations also but less pronounced. This could be from inconsistency in the wrap's diameter OR, (more likely), irregular spacing. All of the plain wire strings were very consistent in diameter. The DR replacement set is the one I just removed yesterday. DR has a bit to say about the issue on the inside of the box the strings were packaged in titled, "Prevent Dead Strings & Avoid Loss Of Intonation".

Again, I like this new set a lot. It drives the Weber Fern to sound quite powerful with great sustain. It seems to me to be the same as the set it replaces.

Willie, I plan on trying the GHS at some point. I was listening for any intoning to the sharp side (not the 'Dark Side!") and watching the computer readout of actual pitch & I couldn't tell. I understand how changing gauge could affect things...

Billy

[pops1]

I am also a GHS fan, but I rarely use the mandolin strings these days. I use the White Bronze guitar strings and take the ball ends off. It's a pain, but I like the fact they aren't so bright at first, in fact just right, and a month or two down the line they don't get dull sounding like phosphor bronze does. I am thinking of having them make me sets of loop end strings of the White Bronze, but I have to but 144 sets for them to do it. How long will I live, how many string changes will I do? Seems like it still may be worth it.

[Billy Packard]

Dang, I'm back at it again.

Today is the first day of playing the latest set of MD-11.

The D course, actual 5th string, is bogus. I have two tuners, one on my iPhone that includes a numerical read out and a boss chromatic and the both indicate the SAME THING! ARG!!

In the open position the string is tuned D, showing the same on each tuner.

As I go up one fret at a time it gets progressively more FLAT ! At the octave harmonic the string is more than a semi-tone flat.

The three other wound strings all play correctly.

??Think I'm nuts? Skipe me or FaceTime me and I'll show you.

I'm so frustrated because otherwise the rest of the strings sound great. But this one D string is really bad.

Billy

831-588-2738

[Stevo75]

Billy I had the same experience as you. Same string course. I replaced them and now use GHS A270s. I didn't like the DR's anyway, so it was no big loss for me.

[Billy Packard]

Steve, I will give the GHS a try next.

For now, I'm calling DR first thing tomorrow and see if they'll overnight a replacement.

This is crazy.

[Ivan Kelsall]

From Billy - " The plain wire strings are predictably consistent.". Thanks Billy - that seems to rule out any fret / set up problems. It could be that the G & D nut slots are a tad shallow & the strings need pressing down a bit harder so they're over stretching & going sharp to a tiny degree ??. On guitars & banjos with much slacker strings,that's no problem,but with mandolins & their 'high tension' strings, it could cause a problem. You could try lowering the action at the bridge by a tiny amount to see if that helps.
From what you describe about the string going flat as you go up the neck,i had the same problem with a rogue G string in a set of J74's a few years back. It was the inner string. I swapped the G strings over. inner to outer, & the problem swapped over = a bad string. I put a new one on & it sorted the problem out.

With regard to GHS A270 strings,i use those on my Ellis & i'm sticking with them as they sound superb. The intonation of the Ellis is 100% (or as close as you'll ever get). When i first bought it,i did put a set of DR MD11's on it & they sounded great & there were no intonation problems whilst i used those either. Eventually,after contacting Tom Ellis regarding some info.on my mandolin (i bought it 'used'), Tom told me that he liked the GHS strings ,so i bought some,tried them & decided that i liked the 'sweeter' tone on my Ellis. Our friend Willie had mentioned to me many times how much he likes the A270's - a terrific string for 'some' mandolins,but my Weber liketh not the .016" "A" strings.

Willie - 'coated' strings aren't supposed to sound different. The coating is there as an anti-oxidisation prevention to extend the life of the strings for those folk with sweaty,high acidity hands. That said,it's hard to think that the 'extra' coating doesn't add or remove ''something'',
Ivan

[Willie Poole]

The reason I got a free set of DR Dragon Skin strings is that I also had a D string that did what Billy describes as his is doing, I contacted them and they sent me a new set, these are OK...The information on the Dragon Skin package says that these are the first coated strings that sound like uncoated strings so from that I took it to mean that a coating does alter the sound of strings, the DR`s are my first time trying coated strings, I always like to try as many different makes of strings as I can and hope one day I will find the "holy grail" set, of course when a person owns more than one mandolin he will have to try a lot of strings to see if any one brand sounds OK on all mandolins and I doubt that it will ever happen...As far as intonation goes, all of the strings on my mandolin intonate close to perfect except for the A strings, they note flat as I go up the neck, I tune them so that they are spot on at the 5th fret and that's allows them to be close enough at all points, something I have to live with I guess...

Willie

[Billy Packard]

Hi Ivan!

It is a "rouge" string indeed. Sooo annoying. I have been very active playing the mandolin for many decades and the DR strings are the only ones I've ever had issues with. As you know, the various brands will sound this way or that but none have had this issue. It's so weird the way the string goes continually more flat up the fretboard to where at the octave it's more than a semi-tone flat. Bizarre.

I sent an email to DR last night and spoke with them this morning. They will be sending out another set right away. All I need is one D string but it's all or nothing. I appreciate their prompt customer service. I will circle back and attempt to talk to someone in Tech to get an idea about the physics of this thing.

I do really like the sound of the MD-11 on my Fern.

Billy

[Atlanta Mando Mike]

I've had a single D strings be bad in about 60 sets of strings-happened last week. I like the strings so much, I've decided I can handle the good/bad ratio. I'm sure they would replace if I asked. Good thing I buy in bulk and had another D laying around.

[Billy Packard]

Michael--60 sets!! Do you mean literally that many bad ones?

[Atlanta Mando Mike]

Ha, no, I mean 1 bad string in total out of 60 sets. So that's 1 bad string out of 120 D strings or so.

[Willie Poole]

WHEW!!!!....sometimes we don`t read what we read...

[Ivan Kelsall]

Regardless of brand,i'm sure that because nothing is ''perfect'',rogue strings will crop up from time to time. I've never had any intonation problems on banjo,but i did have one lower D string (4th), that had all the tonal qualities of a rubber band once. It was obviously a bad string & i had to raid another set for a replacement & as single strings aren't (or weren't at that time) available,i had the rest of the set for years !. They were Stelling ''medium heavies'' made by GHS. I can put up with the odd bad string, as long as it happens very rarely,but it is annoying & often very puzzling as it's something we don't expect.

Billy - My own Fern was the first to have DR MD11's on it & i simply couldn't believe the difference they made. Oddly,when i first put them on,i didn't notice much difference, maybe because the mandolin was 'cold'. But the day after,sitting in my warm living room, the mandolin took on a whole new dimension in sound. All the 'tone' was there ie. it didn't sound tonally 'different',it just had one heck of a punch with it. I was truly amazed - i still am !. I always buy 2 sets of any new string,just in case i need a spare,but i put the second set on my Lebeda to see what they'd do for that & got similar results. The MD12's i tried on the Lebeda ware a tad disappointing. The D, A & E strings sounded ok,but the G strings were a bit dull unless you really whacked 'em. I left them on until i'd got 2 more sets of MD11's then put those on.

I won't say that i'll never try any other strings,but i honestly can't imagine any other brand/gauge being more pleasing to my ears. One UK Cafe member who'd read my thread on the DR's tried a set of MD11's on Summit F5 mandolin & e-mailed me a single word e-mail - WOW !!,
Ivan

[Billy Packard]

FWIW !!

I went down to the quirky little music store in town and purchased a single D'Addario loop-end 026 phosphor bronze string to replace the 'rouge' DR string mentioned above because I got tired of waiting for the replacement to arrive.

I put it on and it intonate's correctly. More importantly--I can't hear a difference between the two strings, they sound alike!

Billy

[Ivan Kelsall]

Hi Billy - You might notice some difference in a week(s) or so as the strings get played in. The D'Addario string 'might' loose it's tone more quickly - your observations on that would be of interest. My DR's seem to last a long time,far longer than the J74's that i used to use. So - an A/B comparison on the same mandolin,being played for exactly as long at the same time would be fairly unique,
Ivan

[Billy Packard]

Ivan,

My thoughts as well. As I mentioned above, the DR set lasted very well, in fact even though it was 'done' by the beginning of January it was still nice enough to put off the tedious string-change another month.

I will definitely keep you posted on this little string laboratory experiment. I certainly would not have done this intentionally. The D'Addario even has a bit of an advantage being the 2nd in the corse.

Billy

[Charles E.]

Thread bump, Just installed a set of DR medium (11-40) on my mandolin last week and with the D strings being perfectly in tune open, by the time you get to the 12th fret the two strings are off by almost 20 cents, neither being in tune. I will go back to D'Addario strings.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Charley - When i changed over from J74's to DR MD11's i changed nothing - bridge position / height - nothing !. After reading your post yesterday,rather than depend on my memory - i checked my Weber & Lebeda which have MD11's on, & they were a tiny fraction sharp at the 12th fret as you'd maybe expect as the strings are being pressed down further. Even my ''spot on'' Ellis isn't 100% perfect up there with GHS A270's on it.

Whatever is causing the DR strings to be so far out,isn't IMHO,purely down to the strings,or we'd all be noticing 'something' similar,
Ivan

[Beanzy]

I've ping-ponged between them & J74's on my Kentucky but not had it go adrift up the board yet. I've had only the DRs on the Davidson it was specced to use them & they're spot on so can't say if swapping to the J74s would reveal anything. I suppose it might be worth a try on my next string change just to see if they go the other way. I wonder if the heavy/ medium thing could make any difference?

[Billy Packard]

An update,

I had my Fern to a local luthier April 17 during which he put on a new set of strings, J74's....so that's off my bucket list!. They were pretty ok but not particularly noteworthy for a max of 3 weeks when I started thinking about them when I played. For me, that's the "end sign" for that set. Usually I'll wait another week or so before I get around to changing them which is where I am now.

I put a set of Mapes Phosphor Bronze on my Gilchrist A3 Feb. 21 and I've noticed no change of tone in that time. In all fairness I must say I play that mandolin about 25% of the time. Having said that I'll add that they sound fine if a tiny, tiny bit dark which I think is from the "Appalachian Moonshine" they are cured with. They are in no way muddy and thumpy sounding like other coated strings I've tried.

Mapes also makes a set that is 80/20 brass that I want to try on the Fern. I expect them to be brighter starting out. I'll order them today and update soon! I do still have two sets of DR, MD-11's which I'll likely use at some point in the future.

Billy

[Charles E.]

Charley - When i changed over from J74's to DR MD11's i changed nothing - bridge position / height - nothing !. After reading your post yesterday,rather than depend on my memory - i checked my Weber & Lebeda which have MD11's on, & they were a tiny fraction sharp at the 12th fret as you'd maybe expect as the strings are being pressed down further. Even my ''spot on'' Ellis isn't 100% perfect up there with GHS A270's on it.

Whatever is causing the DR strings to be so far out,isn't IMHO,purely down to the strings,or we'd all be noticing 'something' similar,
Ivan

Hey Ivan, I think the D strings a faulty. I switched out the strings two at a time so nothing about the set up changed. The other strings are fine so I am going to try an experiment. I will buy two .024 loop end, ph bronze strings from the local guitar store this weekend and switch them out and report back.

[Steve Martin]

I've had the same problems with the DR wound strings as others noted. They go sharp as you play up the neck but not in unison. One is sharper than the others. I contacted DR last fall and they sent a set of replacement strings. I changed strings again in March, same problem. I gave up and ordered some D'Addario J74s which work perfectly.

[Beanzy]

I wonder if someone in the handmade process is getting their winding wrong or being inconsistent & the qc isn't catching it?
I had ordered some from a uk online company as mine are a 6 months old and have had a lot of playing so probably due a change. Anyway there was a message on the home phone yesterday saying they haven't been able to get any since early spring, but there should be a new batch arriving in July. I've not had a chance to call them yet to see if there's any background info to be gleaned.

I may stick some heavier Dogal or Fisoma strings on to experiment & hear how those sound.
The thing is the J74s don't hold enough 'clang' for more than a couple of weeks, but the DRs have that light feel for similar output, but keep the new sounding brightness for months. I like the brasher sound especially when playing tunes alongside the fiddles.