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Thread: An open letter to Classifieds users

  1. #51

    Default Re: An open letter to Classifieds users

    So, ......., my criticism is if it's free let go of it, and if it's not, charge for it. A third answer is to follow the posting rules, where the moderators delete posts that don't meet the rules, so delete ads from the offenders. I'm sure posts outnumber ads by a large number so it may not be a large, additional burden. And if that takes unaffordable technology, perhaps you're at an entrepreneurial crossroads, suffering from a lack of capital investment to keep the site as you wish. I don't have an answer for that, except that many sites/businesses fail when they come to that junction. Not comforting I know,but I don't have a better answer for persistent offenders.

    If you don't get a flood of checks from the offenders, where does that leave you? And if you get a flood of checks, where does that leave you?

  2. #52
    Registered Muser dang's Avatar
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    Default Re: An open letter to Classifieds users

    I think you are taking the responses wrong...

    When you were asked if you would like to do all the programming and setup for this site to make money the answer is obvious - of course not. So why would this site do it for someone else?

    This isn't about a flood of money to upgrade the site, it's about people participating in a community.
    I should be pickin' rather than postin'

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  4. #53
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    Default Re: An open letter to Classifieds users

    If you have repeat offenders that refuse to donate appropriate action should be taken. 2% is a bargain compaired to Ebay or consignment. I know the thought has been to have community of like minded individuals and that donations are on the honor system. Every community has people take more than they give. Scott it is your site and you can do what you please but if it was me I would take a differant course.
    1) donations would no longer be optional. If you want to run a hobby or home business there are costs just like any other.
    2) if you don't make your donation you will be warned, second violation will end your posting privileges.

    In any business there comes a time when you have to draw the line.

  5. #54

    Default Re: An open letter to Classifieds users

    Or you could post an open letter to Classifieds use...oh, wait....

  6. #55
    Registered User Russ Jordan's Avatar
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    Default Re: An open letter to Classifieds users

    We are all different, but I for one, have never much appreciated unsolicited advice on how to run my affairs.........
    Russ Jordan

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  8. #56
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    Default Re: An open letter to Classifieds users

    Most rules and policies are intstituted in a business environment because somebody took advantage of you. Running a business is very difficult. People think you sit around and tell people what to do all day. Very few ever see the 16 hour days or the months where you may not get a day off. Running a business also isn't free, you can burn through a tons money operating a business. I understand where they are coming from. I don't think most do.

  9. #57
    Registered User Jill McAuley's Avatar
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    Default Re: An open letter to Classifieds users

    Quote Originally Posted by Russ Jordan View Post
    We are all different, but I for one, have never much appreciated unsolicited advice on how to run my affairs.........
    Nail on the head! I had dinner last week with an acquaintance who spent the entire time telling me what I should be doing with my business. This guy has zero experience working in my field and has never run his own business before yet felt quite comfortable giving me a laundry list of things I should be doing (many of which were completely unrealistic and unrelated to the field I'm in and the one or two things that were applicable I'm already doing) I never solicited his opinion or advice but he waxed lyrical for over two hours.

    Scott doesn't need to be told how to run his business - this fantastic website and community is testament to how well he runs it.
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  11. #58
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    Default Re: An open letter to Classifieds users

    About two years ago I sold a CA bridge to a Cafe member although I did not post it in the classified section, I PMed him and he somehow took his time (5 months) paying me for it so I contacted Scott and informed him that the member should be dis barred if he failed to pay and Scott took the bull by the horns and contacted the fellow and I got my money, by doing this I did not know what the guidelines were for the 2% payment since I didn`t use the classifieds but I will promise to make a donation to the Cafe after reading this message and it is only fair since I used and took up some of Scott`s time to get it accomplished...

    I am sure all of us understand now what the selling guidelines are and that is a good thing...

    Willie

  12. #59
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    Default Re: An open letter to Classifieds users

    If it was foolproof there wouldn't be an open letter and constant complaints about the same subject.You can solve the problem or you can choose not to.
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  13. #60
    two t's and one hyphen fatt-dad's Avatar
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    Default Re: An open letter to Classifieds users

    I've been both good and bad. This thread will make me better. I will say over the last 6 or 8 years, I've been mostly good. It's possible 10 years ago, when I didn't fully understand the internet and web sites in general, my perspective was not very well developed.

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  15. #61

    Default Re: An open letter to Classifieds users

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie Poole View Post
    ... I am sure all of us understand now what the selling guidelines are and that is a good thing...

    Willie

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  16. #62
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    Default Re: An open letter to Classifieds users

    I want to add my support again by saying, this is not complicated. Our M.C. is not free and takes much time and hard work. The Classified ads are a great opportunity that does not have to offered, but thanks to Scott, it is. We should just support it. If we sell something, we in turn should give something that will help forward the cause. "A word to the wise is sufficient."
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  17. #63

    Default Re: An open letter to Classifieds users

    Quote Originally Posted by dang View Post
    I think you are taking the responses wrong...

    When you were asked if you would like to do all the programming and setup for this site to make money the answer is obvious - of course not. So why would this site do it for someone else?
    I'm taking the OP as frustrated with some people's behavior and suggesting means to reduce that frustration. Perhaps that unsolicited advice is unwelcome, but it was given with the best intentions if not the best tone. I thought by posting he was looking for responses, and if not, I'll certainly stop. Clearly the initial post was aimed at the persistent offenders and not site users in general.

    My 'business advice' was to change the 'suggested (not required) donation (voluntary contribution) to required fee, as words have meaning, as he pointed out. He could deny the offenders the ability to post ads. Or don't let freeloaders bother him. And his comment about programming I see as just another part of that frustration in that upgrading code is a time consuming, formidable task for an environment that was quite possibly started as a labor of love a long time ago and is now much more difficult. And you may recall I suggested I support him in whichever direction he choses.

    i have run my own business, worked the endless hours and days, invested heart, soul and thousands of dollars, and lost. So I see the frustration differently than many and am wishing that it doesn't eat him up.

    And if it matters, and I don't think it does, I've never sold anything here.

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  19. #64
    Registered User Annette Siegel's Avatar
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    Default Re: An open letter to Classifieds users

    Removed
    Last edited by Annette Siegel; Aug-25-2016 at 4:19pm. Reason: Not helpful. :-(

  20. #65
    Chu Dat Frawg Eric C.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: An open letter to Classifieds users

    Scott isn't looking for advice. What he did was post an open letter to those who use the Classifieds, specifically those that make tens or hundreds of THOUSANDS of dollars and don't have the courtesy to donate for the service.

    He's pretty much saying to knock it off, aimed at I'm assuming the few that appear to be abusing the system.
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  22. #66
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    Default Re: An open letter to Classifieds users

    I'm not going to speak for Scott but I'll try and put this into some perspective. The problem isn't widespread, it's concentrated into a few users that have many hundreds of ads and/or many thousands of dollars in sales with near zero contribution to the site. When Scott is called on to referee one of those sales it is understandably frustrating. The regular advertisers on this site advertise here because this is the largest mandolin site on the web by a magnitude. Those advertisers pay for the privilege of being able to get your attention. When someone chooses to simply use that same goodwill for free it can get frustrating. This is a community of people that go out of their way to help each other out and that isn't going to change but like everything on the Internet it costs money. The free services you enjoy on the web are paid for in one way or the other. Google is free, right? People pay for ad words so they come up first in a search. Gmail and Yahoo and Hotmail are free right? Your personal data is mined so you can be fed ads. You use a free service to shorten a URL? That data is sold. Nobody can maintain a large site for free, it just isn't going to happen. I'm pretty sure Scott isn't looking for suggestions on how to make folks pay for ads, he knows how to do that.
    Last edited by MikeEdgerton; Aug-25-2016 at 3:29pm.
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  24. #67

    Default Re: An open letter to Classifieds users

    Hi - First post here - I am new to this forum. I really appreciate this resource. Thank you to all that make it happen. So far, I have neither purchased nor sold items on this site, but I am very happy to support with a donation. I have been experiencing technical difficulties making that happen and I will communicate separately to address that issue. However, I did want to toss out an idea - perhaps on the classified page there could be a listing of sellers that donate at least 2% of their sales proceeds, thanking them for their support and maybe even encouraging participants to patronize those sellers. I mention this only to make a positive contribution to the conversation. I am certainly not trying to tell anyone how they should conduct their business. Thank you again!!!!

  25. #68
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: An open letter to Classifieds users

    Not only am I super aware of the value of the classifieds, but I think the overall site that Scott and colleagues have given us is one of the absolute gem of the Internet. Not only do I donate after a sale but whenever I recommend anyone list items in the classifieds tell them that they need to donate the recommended 2% of a successful sale. Keep up the great work, Scott, et al!!
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  27. #69
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    Default Re: An open letter to Classifieds users

    If the problem is limited to a small group of offenders it is also much easier to solve.
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  28. #70
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    Default Re: An open letter to Classifieds users

    Folks....it should be remembered that this site is not only a place to buy and sell......for me it is a great source of entertainment, knowledge, and community. I rarely feel the need to post on blogs or threads of any kind, but in this case wanted to voice my support and thanks to Scott and whoever else may be behind the scenes. A small (but heartfelt) donation has also been made to hopefully offset some of the sellers who don't quite see things the way most of us do.

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  30. #71
    Registered User Tom C's Avatar
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    Default Re: An open letter to Classifieds users

    I think you should start a donation week like PBS does. It may give a reminder to all of us (Like myself) who do not sell things to still make a donation.

  31. #72
    Registered User Glassweb's Avatar
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    Default Re: An open letter to Classifieds users

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Tichenor View Post
    Free does not appear on the home page.
    Free does not appear on the ad submission page.
    Free does not appear in Replies sent to ad users.
    Free does not appear in emails sent to those placing new ads.
    Free does not appear in my opening post in this thread.
    Free does not appear in the posting guidelines.

    The only place I know of is where we state anything like that is the statement "Like to make sure this resource stays free?" next to donate buttons. Are you confused that means you shouldn't pay for all those ads you've placed when you make a sale? If you're just buying, I'm fine. If you're selling and I'm lining your pockets and you don't support us, what's to clarify, really? Everything I've said has been clearly stated. There's no problem here other than people too cheap to be a part of the what's asked and is fair. I'll take it you mean well, though I could be wrong, but that's an unfortunate and clumsy statement on your part. That or you just didn't read anything else I've already clearly stated above.

    So that you aren't further confused, I'll edit that statement appropriately.

    EDIT: there, no more confusion, edited out! Good grief. That's certainly a stretch. The only way you would know it was there was because you've placed enough ads.
    the fact is Scott that i DID mean well with my post, and if you perceived what i wrote as "clumsy" then i really don't know what to say about that. i do feel however, that it didn't warrant the "personal" kind of response it received. my post was sent in good faith but, as they say, perception is everything. unless i'm mistaken i do remember sending The Cafe over the years hundreds of dollars, bottles of expensive spirits and boxes of the finest French chocolates to enjoy. The Cafe is a great service and is, indeed, enjoyed and used by many. Congratulations!

  32. #73
    poor excuse for anything Charlieshafer's Avatar
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    Default Re: An open letter to Classifieds users

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom C View Post
    I think you should start a donation week like PBS does. It may give a reminder to all of us (Like myself) who do not sell things to still make a donation.
    Not a bad idea at all..

  33. #74

    Default Re: An open letter to Classifieds users

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    Not only am I super aware of the value of the classifieds, but I think the overall site that Scott and colleagues have given us is one of the absolute gem of the Internet. Not only do I donate after a sale but whenever I recommend anyone list items in the classifieds tell them that they need to donate the recommended 2% of a successful sale. Keep up the great work, Scott, et al!!
    One of the better suggestions I've heard so far. Nice!
    Patiently tolerated by mandolins since 2013.

  34. #75

    Default Re: An open letter to Classifieds users

    Bazinga!

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