Gold Tone mandocello -- thoughts?

[catmandu2]

Personally, I wouldn't ever consider buying a mandocello with a humbucker and volume knobs like this. Mandocellos are acoustic instruments first and foremost. This just isn't the right 'cello vibe (IMO). If it's more marketable with an installed pickup, then include a decent bridge or internal contact pickup wired to a 1/4" jack at the tailpiece.

At this point, we're still testing out prototypes, however, it will most likely have a pickup. Based on our mandolin sales (including the Bouzouki/Mandola/Octave Mandolin), we tend to do a lot of pickup installations..

GT instruments, imo, are geared at an 'economy' market (perhaps, in this case - not the m'cello 'purist' but rather the basement/open-mic dabbler wanting a cool toy) - which is probably why folks want pickups in them - to get the most out of an instrument that likely isn't such a great 'all-acoustic' (compared with finer-grade, highly resonant) instruments. Remember what made ovation, takemine, yamaha so successful..

No knock at all on GT - they do what they do very well. I've enjoyed their banjos.. Thanks Wayne!

[foldedpath]

Sure, I can understand an installed pickup from a marketing perspective. I just think this would look better and attract more sales if it was an invisible "acoustic" style pickup under the bridge or under the soundboard. Visually it reads as an electric guitar. I don't think most people interested in a mandocello will respond to that.

[catmandu2]

Ah, gotcha. But it could appeal to the jazzers who want to go 5ths, NST, et al. I would expect this to be generally compaeable to say the Samick JZs - great guitars for the price, btw. From what I've gleaned here - it seems as much guitar as mandolin anyway..?

Also, fwiw i'd rather have a neck p.u. - over a piezo - for fatter tone. Oh, and I didn't mean "toy" in a negative sense - it's obviously an instrument capable of making splendid music.

[Marvino]

Seemed more like a video demonstrating a musicians musical abilities than a video demo of an instrument. When video was done, I just sat there thinking..."that was strange"...was August Rush not available?

[mrmando]

I will definitely try it out if I get a chance. Maybe I'm the only one.

I hope it does end up with a mandocello neck. I have an Epiphone jazz guitar converted to a mandocello, with the same configuration as this, and it sounds great but can't get used to the neck.

[dchernack]

Sure, I can understand an installed pickup from a marketing perspective. I just think this would look better and attract more sales if it was an invisible "acoustic" style pickup under the bridge or under the soundboard. Visually it reads as an electric guitar. I don't think most people interested in a mandocello will respond to that.

I agree. An internal pickup would be great... I just think the humbucking pickup is gonna be one more thing that'll make non-mandolin players say, "hey, neat guitar!"

[catmandu2]

Seemed more like a video demonstrating a musicians musical abilities than a video demo of an instrument. When video was done, I just sat there thinking..."that was strange"...was August Rush not available?

Maybe they were just going for as many minimally-filtered parts as he/they wished to render in a short clip - showing a few different ranges .. no doubt they weren't going for all the marbles they might have.. Demo perhaps not optimal - but I could hear several adequate aspects of the instrument.

[Marvino]

... Demo perhaps not optimal - but I could hear several adequate aspects of the instrument.

"adequate aspects" isnt a good thing, but is an accurate description. Phenomenal musician, wrong style and technique of music for a mandocello demo, IMHO.
Gold Tone, you need Mike Marshall.

[Barry Wilson]

The piece of music was the luthiers original piece. I like the pick up myself. I hadn't noticed the specs on nut width and I have to agree with the others. I don't plan on being serious about mandocello. I have more instruments than I have time to learn/play as it is. It looks great to me, sounds decent for the odd recording I will do with it and it adds to the collection of something I don't have.

and it comes with a hard case. I really enjoy all my gold tone instruments

[Bernie Daniel]

I was just going from memory, but the narrower the nut width the better for me. I don't have an old Gibson cello to measure, but I know they are no bigger than 1 1/2".

Santa Cruz got that right in their guitar body mandocello build.

Yes Gibson mandocellos are 1.5" at the nut -- it would be a big mistake to issue another new mandocello with an arch top guitar neck, fret board, and nut. That is too wide, too wide, too wide. Take a survey of mandocello players please.

[MikeEdgerton]

Wow, they managed to make it sound just like an electric guitar. :-\

And that's a shame. It isn't too hard to simply go to Youtube and search for Mandocello. The first 5 or so listings might give you an idea of what you might want them to sound like.

[Emmett Marshall]

I don't like the sound of that thing. To my ear, there were only a few (bass side) notes that somewhat resemble a mandocello, but maybe I'm just spoiled by having heard this one and my expectations are too unrealistic?:

[foldedpath]

I don't like the sound of that thing. To my ear, there were only a few (bass side) notes that somewhat resemble a mandocello, but maybe I'm just spoiled by having heard this one and my expectations are too unrealistic?

I don't think it's at all unrealistic. That Marshall clip with the Monteleone was one of the first times I ever heard one too. There may be a bit of cultural conditioning going on here, with the few showcase examples we have. But there is also the historical precedent, the fact that mandocellos were originally designed as "big Gibsons on steroids" for the mandolin orchestras of the '20's. We know what that looks and sounds like, because some of those old Gibsons are still around and still being played.

You can get close to that sound, maybe even duplicate it on a very well-made guitar body 'cello, as in the recent examples posted here of the Northfield prototype and the new Weber cutaway GBOM. But for me, it's always a big mandolin and not an 8-course guitar. So big A and F style 'cellos are the shapes I enjoy seeing (and hearing).

Here's another of the few players associated with the instrument -- Simon Mayor on a Mike Vanden 'cello:




Listen to that huge low C note!

[catmandu2]

Beautiful music (and a superb example of instrument demo - ).

As with any level of instrument - the finely made will tend to sound superb to the econo-grade. I guess what Wayne is interested in knowing: does the world need more econoline instruments? The folks in the cbom forum seem to indicate - yes

[Emmett Marshall]

Listen to that huge low C note!

My gosh that mandolin sounds great. I can just "feel" the power emanating from that sound. I hear you about the old Gibsons. I was lucky enough to try one of the really, really old "pumpkin" model mandocellos at a music shop in Minot, ND last year. It had a big, deep sound also. I wanted to purchase it so badly, but it was just in for "repairs."

It doesn't rub me the wrong way when builders stray a bit from the traditional, but when it changes the sound so much, yet they still call it what it once was, (a mandocello) then I get rubbed against the grain a bit. I'm not an expert on the mandocello, but as an example, I am totally cool with Weber's cutaway design mandocello because the sound is that of a nice mandocello. On the other hand, their "Octar," looks like a beautiful guitar, but doesn't fully capture the OM sound that I'm familiar with and like to hear - yet they define it as an octave mandolin. Perhaps because of the tuning and double courses? I'd have been thrilled if they'd just put the thing in a class by itself, called it an "Octar," (as someone obviously knew to do) but also describe it as somewhat like an OM. To me, that's a much more accurate, and dare I suggest, "true" picture of things.

I realize that not everyone's ears are the same, judging sound is subjective, and some people are looking for different things in an instrument - and in selling instruments, so it's definitely business as usual and not the end of the world. I'm a bit of a "purist" when it comes to certain things. I understand that sacrifices have to be made in materials and manhours to achieve a certain price point, but on the other hand, I've played <$500 mandolins that sound like $5000 dollar mandolins, so I know that this is possible as well. When the day comes that sounds start drastically changing, and when scale lengths start running amuck, should I just start calling all these stringed instruments "lutes" and be done with it? When so much is changed or modified, a unique name for the instrument model might better reflect a manufacturer's innovation?

Anyway, I think I'm starting to think like you! And it scares me.

[Tom Liston]

Curious, has Goldtone ever made or thought of making an A model cello?

[Barry Wilson]

Curious, has Goldtone ever made or thought of making an A model cello?

check post 12 in this thread from Gold Tone

[catmandu2]

Oops - above I meant 'as with any instrument' - not 'level of..'

Well it seems to me - as I believe its particular asset would be as an e-m'cello (consistent with the other GT mandolin-family products) .. my given recommendation would be to add another string course - that would make this particular beast more fun, for me. Albeit I'm personally not in the market for e-axes .. I'm sure they have their appeal to others.

[Jeff Budz]

Would 5 courses fit well on a guitar width neck? If they have to go with guitar body and neck pickup why not go way out and do 5 course also?

[musicofanatic]

The Goldtone product seems so far off the mark, if the above two videos represent the standard for this type of instrument. Whilst the guitar body concept bothers me less than some, The "Gibson ES-175" vibe of the design is utterly off-putting. I am quite confident that I will be far happier to continue to play my 1950s Harmony arch top tenor guitar, single-strung with a 1/2 set of mandocello strings than I would anything resembling the offered prototype. Additionally I will continue to gnash my teeth in remorse for not purchasing the $1200 Kalamazoo KK-32 I played at Lark St Music some 5 years back!

[Jeff Hildreth]

Leave the nut width wide. The 1 1/2 nut widths are too narrow.

Eastman mandolin family suffers greatly from NNS ( narrow nut syndrome)

The tuners need to be moved away from the nut.. this would also solve the problem of the headstock being far too long.. aesthetically challenged .

If anything..
Bag the usual uninspiring cutaway. I prefer full bodied arch tops.

If the cutaway must stay... go to a Sel/Mac style cutaway and a snakehead.

No visible knobs, no visible pickup.

This appears to be a re hash of the Eastman at a lower level.

Given the tone and playability of the Eastman, and the reason they languish on dealers racks...I believe this has to do with making a mando cello from a standard archtop pattern. It didn't work.

I believe the only thing that would sell the GT would be the lower price point.
Otherwise there is really nothing of distinction about the instrument.

As to the video, self serving and really had nothing to do with a new model intro that would benefit, or wow, a potential customer with tone playability, features innovation etc. And no specifiactions which many would like. How about a little patter.

I see the mando cello in a classical setting , a Euro trad mode.. but not in an American blue grass or jazz or folk or "celtic".. perhaps jazz ; Particularly in a traditional American archtop format.
It is misplaced and mis marketed in my opinion. I see it as a novelty.

I would prefer an A style.. and do not see how it could be more expensive.. there is the side bending thing and the cutaway etc.






I

[mrmando]

I bet 5 courses could work at 1 11/16".

I suppose it's true that Eastman mandolin necks run a bit narrow ...

And it's true that the Eastman mandocellos have playability problems ...

but other than that they both concern Eastman instruments, those two facts are not related. Eastman cellos have playability issues because the necks are too wide, not too narrow, and because the string spacing is off.

[Jeff Mando]

I liked the two clips posted of Mike and Simon. Very nice on so many levels. Great playing, as well. BUT, I have to ask, other than the fingering what am I getting over my 12-string guitar? Assuming, you play guitar, as well as mandolin. I do hear the wonderful low resonances, but for myself, I'm wondering if it is enough to justify having............speaking for myself, of course. Some of the older members will remember that we once tuned a 12-string acoustic to C# and capoed for standard tuning, due to the tension.

[foldedpath]

I liked the two clips posted of Mike and Simon. Very nice on so many levels. Great playing, as well. BUT, I have to ask, other than the fingering what am I getting over my 12-string guitar? Assuming, you play guitar, as well as mandolin. I do hear the wonderful low resonances, but for myself, I'm wondering if it is enough to justify having............speaking for myself, of course. Some of the older members will remember that we once tuned a 12-string acoustic to C# and capoed for standard tuning, due to the tension.

That's a very good question, and probably a clue to why mandocello is a rarely seen beast out in the wild. The high cost of a good archtop version is another factor, I think.

What it offers compared to a 12-string guitar is mainly that "zing" and "chorrnng" sound, because they're usually tuned with double courses at the same pitch instead of the octaves on the lower strings of a 12-string guitar. And also the sound of an archtop. Not that many archtop 12 string guitars around, so that makes for a more focused tone. They just sound different, in a really cool way, if you're playing music that's a good fit for the instrument.

Speaking of which, you have access to all that fiddle/cello repertoire, if your fingers can handle it. There is a huge amount of music out there written to be played on an instrument strung in 5ths. It can be adapted to guitar, but something like the Bach cello suites just fit the instrument beautifully.

That said, it will always be a niche instrument, I think. I'm a fan of the sound, but I play guitar (acoustic steel and nylon string), mandolin, and octave mandolin. The octave mandolin gets me close enough to this sound. I would love to have a big Weber mandocello in the collection. But these days, I'm thinking less in terms of having a collection, and more in terms of the music I'm actually playing. Nothing I'm playing now -- mostly Scottish/Cape Breton/Irish trad -- is a good fit on it.

So I admire mandocellos from a distance. I could actually be tempted by one that came in under $1,000 just to fool around on, but it would have to be something very different from this Gold Tone electric jazz guitar version.

[Jim]

I'll echo what has been said above. Leave the headstock alone ( def not an F style machine head). A narrower neck would help playability no doubt, I like the floating pickup but a naked version and/or an internal (not bridge) piezo soundboard pickup would be nice.
I would also like to hear one played acoustically. I expect Mike Marshall ( post 37) was recorded in a better space with great equipment, I would like to see this instrument demo in a similar way. I understand Mr. Marshall might not be available but if he were he would make the Gold Tone sound as good as it could. As for the demo I enjoyed the piece played but don't think it showed off the low end of the Instrument. It did give me some ideas to try on my own looper ;-)