Untapered tuning machine posts?

[colorado_al]

I traded for a great 2011 Collings MT that arrived today.
I was restringing it and found that the tuning machine posts are cylindrical, not conical, like I am used to. I have never seen untapered posts. Is this normal or a manufacturing mistake? The tuners are also very stiff. I lubricated them and worked them without strings on and it helped some, but not a lot.
I'm thinking I might have to replace them. I know that Collings offers Grover 309 tuners as an upgrade, so I'm guessing that they likely will work. I also like the look of the Rubner tuning machines.
I just e-mailed Collings repair to see what they would recommend, but I thought I would also put it out here and see what the unwashed masses of the interwebs might say.
Thanks!
Al

[colorado_al]

Well that was fast!
Mark the Collings Customer Service Manager e-mailed me right back!
He says the lack of taper is a replica of 1920's Loar era tuning machines and they are supposed to be that way.

Regarding the stiff operation he says "your mandolin from 2011 is from an era where there was a minor defect in the design of these tuners that made them somewhat stiff feeling.
I would highly recommend contacting Stew Mac to get a warranty replacement set. I'm sure they will send you a set of their new design at no charge."

I'll have to give Stew Mac a call in the AM
Thanks Mark for your rapid reply!

[Jstring]

Hi Al,
I had the same issue with a Collings MF that I bought a year ago. Nice mandolin, except for the un-turnable tuners.

The people at Collings were very sympathetic and helpful... They asked me to call Stew Mac and ask for replacement tuners... Stew Mac shipped them right away, I swapped them out, and mailed the bad ones back to Stew Mac. The new tuners worked perfectly.

So, no reason to spend money on tuners when Collings will help you out. They really do stand behind their product.

[MikeEdgerton]

The Stewmac page explains the post shape if anyone else wants to know about it.

http://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_...in_Tuners.html

The bad batch of tuners is a known problem and has been discussed here before.

[Dave Hanson]

My 1917 Gibson A has this type of tuners.

Dave H

[MikeEdgerton]

Those style of tuner posts weren't just in the Loar years, that's the way tuners were made.

[colorado_al]

Period authenticity is great, but those posts are a pain in the ass! I think I'm going to switch to Rubners.

[MikeEdgerton]

If you haven't seen this method of restringing it might help you.

[HonketyHank]

If you haven't seen this method of restringing it might help you.

When you go to Mike's link, be sure to click "More" on the bottom of the page to see what applies to us. That method is really helpful. 1) It prevents slippage of the strings after they are tuned up. 2) It makes it much easier to get the strings off when restringing than if you use some other methods to prevent slippage (that I and many others have used before learning this trick).

[colorado_al]

StewMac is sending me a replacement set of the Golden Age tuning machines. After my overnight education in mandolin tuning pegs, I see that the super pricey (and apparently very good) Waverly tuners also have a cylindrical post. I get that they are used partly as tradition and partly so that there is a consistent diameter for tuning. Still, the tapered post of more modern designs is made to lock the string under its own tension without any fancy string techniques. Wrapping the string around itself can cause uneven winding and can lead to irregular pressure and tuning. So, I placed an order for Rubner tuning machines. I think I'll use them, and keep the replacement Golden Age tuners boxed up should I need them in future.

FYI- you can checkout Rubner tuning machines here:
For A style headstocks
http://www.rubnertuners.com/mandolin-machines/

For F Style headstocks
http://www.rubnertuners.com/new-page-1/

Also, 15% discount with code GFA15

Thanks everybody for your help!

[foldedpath]

StewMac is sending me a replacement set of the Golden Age tuning machines. After my overnight education in mandolin tuning pegs, I see that the super pricey (and apparently very good) Waverly tuners also have a cylindrical post.

FYI, I replaced the Schallers that came on my Lebeda mandolin with Waverly tuners a while back, and have never had a problem with the vertical posts. I use the "twice around and through the post, coming out under the top wrap" method (once around on the wound strings) and it works fine.

The Waverly tuners are beautifully machined and have a smooth action. Still a bit pricey for what they are, but it's a niche market.

[colorado_al]

FYI, I replaced the Schallers that came on my Lebeda mandolin with Waverly tuners a while back, and have never had a problem with the vertical posts. I use the "twice around and through the post, coming out under the top wrap" method (once around on the wound strings) and it works fine.

The Waverly tuners are beautifully machined and have a smooth action. Still a bit pricey for what they are, but it's a niche market.

They sound like they are the top of the line, but I can't afford $400+ on a set.

[colorado_al]

Rubners showed up today. Ordered them on Friday and arrived on Monday! Super quick shipping.
They were pretty easy to install. I reused the center screw hole and screw from the Golden Age tuners and plugged the other 2 holes from the Golden Age tuners since the screw locations of the Rubners didn't match up.
The quality of the Rubners is very good. I purchased their simplest set with black buttons and no engraving. I like the look of them with the nickel plates and gears and the black bolts and shafts. They are so much smoother than the Golden Age tuners that they replaced. In fact, they are the smoothest working tuners I have ever felt on a mandolin. I'm guessing that is due to the moldflon PTFE bearings. The only con is that the shaft mount protrudes through the baseplate a bit more than flush. It is proud by a fraction of a millimeter, but enough that the baseplates are not quite flush.
They strung up quickly and easily with the tapered shafts locking the string end automatically. Even under tension, they turn more smoothly than the Golden Age tuners do without strings. I don't know if that is due to the manufacturing defect that Collings spoke about, but that must be quite a defect if they are even hard to turn without strings on. I'll compare to the new set of Golden Age tuners that Stew Mac is sending out.
Anyhow, very pleased with the Rubner tuning machines!

Pretty sweet for $60 shipping included!