New (to me) Idea on Learning by Ear

[Mandobart]

I was recently asked to provide instrumental Christmas music for a company party at my favorite BBQ brew pub (tough life of a hobbyist musician). Now for me a typical two hour gig means about 30 - 40 songs. I thought "no way do I know that many Christmas tunes." However, having grown up celebrating and singling Christmas carols I started making a list of the standard ones I've sung all my life (and of course checked it twice). Not having a lot in the way of sheet music, and most hymnals have these in choral/horn keys anyway, I just started picking them out by ear. It was amazingly easy! Now I've read music for the past 40-some years, and played by ear for over 30, but this really demonstrated the truth of the axiom "if you can hear it in your 'mind's ear' you can play it."

So if you are struggling with ear training, and you are familiar with Christmas carols, this is a great thing to practice.

[Mandoplumb]

Strange you should say Christmas songs are easy to play by ear I would say just the opposite. I've been playing mostly by ear 50+ years and can pick out the melody of most songs almost like sight reading, but Christmad Carols throw me, not that I can't find them it just seems that the sound fools me. If I know or learn the tune of most songs and try to play it My fingers just seem to know the next note is 3 frets higher or the next note is 2 frets lower, with CC it seems I must do a lot of trial and error like when I was first learning 50 years ago.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Some folk find 'playing by ear' easier than others,as in many other things. If i have a tune firmly 'in my head',i can usually play it after running through it a few times,but i do have to have the tune 'in there' so that i can play it 'in my head'.That's how i've taught
myself to play banjo / guitar & now mandolin. It takes a while to get there,but the more you do it,the easier it becomes. Some folk however,just don't have that ability & they fall back onto TAB,which in one way is a good thing,but in others can be not so good.
I think that everybody should at least try to learn by ear.It really comes into it's own when playing with others if a tune that you're not familiar with comes into the arena. I find that i can pick up on the key & the main chords of a tune pretty quickly,after that it's down to my own ability to 'fill in the spaces',
Ivan

[onassis]

I'm right there with you, Mandoplumb. For me, some of them seem easy-ish at first, but then I have a hard time figuring out one section. This is the first year that I've really tried to learn Carols by ear, and it's felt like a worthwhile exercise. A lot of these centuries-old melodies just seem to favor slightly different intervals than the BG melodies I tend to play, if that makes sense. More arpeggio-y. It's taken some effort and time to feel like I've gotten the nuances down. It sometimes seems a bit easier for the guitar and banjo players who are accustomed to picking these out uf chord shapes. Also, the chord structures often fall just a bit outside of the familiar 1-4-5, and it takes a bit of experimentation to find a structure that we're all happy with.

[Mark Miller]

Report from a relative newbie: when I started out, no way could I pick out a tune by ear. So I'm impressed that some people learn instruments that way! But now that I've been playing for a little while, I've started to try some simple things. A friend I jam with was learning Rhiannon Giddens' version of Shake Sugaree on guitar, and I picked out the melody on the mandolin pretty quickly. Then I tried a version of Two Dollar Bill / Long Journey Home. Then I listened to what Bill Monroe was playing on Old Gospel Ship with Charlie and did (an approximation of) that. In all cases it was easier to remember than songs I learned from tab--once I figured it out I had it down. Of course I'm talking about very basic versions here. But there's something about picking it out by ear that seems to involve more of the brain being active, and therefore sinks it into the memory better. Still, I never could have started this way, and what I can do this way is similar to things I've already learned.

[David L]

"Christmas Carols" covers a wide range of styles, complexity, tempos, etc. It is hard to generalize about them. The only thing that makes them "easy" is that you already "know" how the tune goes. some, like "Silent Night" are folk-like in quality and difficulty. Others, like "Sleigh Ride" are fast and complex. If you already know how to do folk-style fingerpicking, "Silent Night " won't be a stretch. Likewise, if you are fluent in 30's and 40's jazz, "Sleigh Ride" will be easier.

[Mark Gunter]

"Christmas Carols" covers a wide range of styles, complexity, tempos, etc. It is hard to generalize about them. The only thing that makes them "easy" is that you already "know" how the tune goes. some, like "Silent Night" are folk-like in quality and difficulty. Others, like "Sleigh Ride" are fast and complex. If you already know how to do folk-style fingerpicking, "Silent Night " won't be a stretch. Likewise, if you are fluent in 30's and 40's jazz, "Sleigh Ride" will be easier.

True, that. But many of the old Christmas Carols of the hymnal variety are simple to me because many are written in strict adherence to the major scale. In fact, while practicing/playing around with the major scale, for me, I find Christmas hymns just materializing automatically, since they are so familiar and adhere solidly to the major scale.

[JeffD]

Mandobart's point, I think, is that Christmas music is something very familiar to most of us. We carry it around in our heads for most of our lives. As fodder for learning by ear and practice it is readily available wherever we are.

I don't think Christmas music is, necessarily, better, or more of a work out, or will improve our playing more than any other music, its just so ubiquitous we might as well use it.

[farmerjones]

Yes indeed! Even, Walking in a Winter Wonderland, and Nat Cole's Christmas Song seem to come right out of my fingers.
Don't know if they're in the right key or not? Strange or not, if I just think of a tune, and start to play it, chances are it will come out in D. Sometimes G. That doesn't mean I can't move it to the common key. But it must come from starting so many phrases with my index finger on B on the A string, or an open D. D is in the middle of my singing range, so it may be, but I have learned to trust it. Like whistling. Do you stop and think of the next note? I know I don't. I just trust in my whistle to be right, and it is.

[Ciaran]

Glad to know I'm not the only one who learns CC's on the mando, was slightly concerned

[spufman]

Christmas carols are fun to play on all instruments, being as you've all said, so ingrained in the brain. On the rare occasions when I bust out my Theremin, invariably I end up playing Christmas tunes!

[terzinator]

Like whistling. Do you stop and think of the next note? I know I don't. I just trust in my whistle to be right, and it is.

I've always found this to be the most amazing thing.

We always play our best when we're in the zone, right? (Meaning, not thinking about it.)

Also, like throwing a baseball. Don't think about it. (Just ask Chuck Knoblauch.)

Gotta trust and let go.

[catmandu2]

Many "jolly tunes" are easy, intuitive, and come naturally on an instrument, particularly, such as melodeon (diatonic button accordion) - an instrument developed in Gemany and probably itself conceived to play exactly this repertoire and other folk-style by 'amateur' players. Pick up a box (not a 'semi-tone' though - that's a bit different), give it a squeeze, and you'll quickly hear the melodies emanating forth -

[SincereCorgi]

On the rare occasions when I bust out my Theremin, invariably I end up playing Christmas tunes!

Who wouldn't long to be present, beside the crackling fire on Christmas eve, when Spufman busts out his theremin for a few rousing hours of Christmas carols?

[farmerjones]

Gotta trust and let go.

I know this isn't the "how do I improvise?" thread, but I think the obstacle is the same.
If one has busted one's hump for thousands of hours, the reward is to be able to let one's fingers do the playing. John Hartford said, "just a pair of eyeballs floating in the Music."
Detach.
Loose the fear of playing the wrong note.
Kenny Werner says to learn to Love that wrong note.
A wrong note (there's really no such thing) is but a step to the right note.
Merry Christmas

[lenf12]

What pick and strings combination do you use on a theremin? "I'm thinkin' of good vibrations, she's giving me excitations..."

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[Ivan Kelsall]

There is a 'downside' to learning by ear as i posted on here a while back. I've been learning song/tunes by ears for over 50 years & i'm pretty good at it by now - however !. If a tune is a little less than straight forward,& you don't hear it in such a way as to get it 'right',you can kid yourself that you've got it correct when you haven't. I did that a few years ago with 'Old Daingerfield'. I thought i'd got the second bar of the tune correct,but i hadn't. I played it the way i thought it should go, until one day i heard the 'wrong bit' loud & clear. It simply stuck out & i realised that i'd got it wrong. I got the TAB for the tune,something i very rarely use & tried to learn it correctly,that was when i hit the brick wall !. I'd played it wrong for so long,i couldn't get the wrong way out of my head, & it was lousing up my attempts to play it correctly. So,i employed my usual tactic - leave it alone for several months. I re-strung my Weber 2 days ago & yesterday, while still playing the strings in,i decided to re-visit OD without TAB. I could now hear the right way 'in my head' without the wrong way butting in,so i spent a half hour getting it right & close to another 4 1/2 hours playing it over & over & ......... !. The result is that i'm on the right track with OD for the first time.
It simply needs me to play the dickens out of it for a few weeks,so, i'll maybe play it a half dozen times a day until it's as natural as the 'wrong way' was. It's taken me that long to 'un-learn' & 're-learn' the tune,so as i said,learning by ear can have it's downside occasionally,
Ivan

[Mandoplumb]

There is a 'downside' to learning by ear as i posted on here a while back. I've been learning song/tunes by ears for over 50 years & i'm pretty good at it by now - however !. If a tune is a little less than straight forward,& you don't hear it in such a way as to get it 'right',you can kid yourself that you've got it correct when you haven't. I did that a few years ago with 'Old Daingerfield'. I thought i'd got the second bar of the tune correct,but i hadn't. I played it the way i thought it should go, until one day i heard the 'wrong bit' loud & clear. It simply stuck out & i realised that i'd got it wrong. I got the TAB for the tune,something i very rarely use & tried to learn it correctly,that was when i hit the brick wall !. I'd played it wrong for so long,i couldn't get the wrong way out of my head, & it was lousing up my attempts to play it correctly. So,i employed my usual tactic - leave it alone for several months. I re-strung my Weber 2 days ago & yesterday, while still playing the strings in,i decided to re-visit OD without TAB. I could now hear the right way 'in my head' without the wrong way butting in,so i spent a half hour getting it right & close to another 4 1/2 hours playing it over & over & ......... !. The result is that i'm on the right track with OD for the first time.
It simply needs me to play the dickens out of it for a few weeks,so, i'll maybe play it a half dozen times a day until it's as natural
as the 'wrong way' was. It's taken me that long to 'un-learn' & 're-learn' the tune,so as i said,learning by ear can have it's downside occasionally,
Ivan

That down side is why fiddle tunes differ depending "which side of the ridge" you come from. Sometimes I prefer one over the other the one I play or the one I just heard. Who says which is right.

[Ivan Kelsall]

I'm a firm believer that the 'classic' songs/tunes should be played the way that the originals were. 'For me',the definitive version of Old Daingerfield is Bill Monroe's version from the album ''Master of Bluegrass'' & that's the way i want to play it. Other players can do what they want with it,but i've heard many 'classic' tunes loused up completely because either the player couldn't play it properly, or they decided their own stuff was better,which it very seldom is (IMHO). I'll stick with 'original',at least folk will know what tune i'm playing (i hope). I have a version of 'Foggy Mt Breakdown' played by a very well known & respected banjo player,but 15 seconds into the tune you wouldn't recognise it,
Ivan

[farmerjones]

Good point Ivan. It seems even worse when it comes to comp chords. I can mash any lyric into, ii, V, I, or some variation of I, IV, V, or I, vi, IV, V. What fits and what's proper can be two different things. On the other hand, I've heard many negative comments from people trying their best to play from both real books and fake books. The transcriptions are often inaccurate to say the least. Let me say this is all pop stuff, or modern day standards. What's a Cover Band to do? To be honest, I've gone the Johnny Cash & Kenny Baker route. I play it as best I can, be it from artistic license or from stupidity, and I will leave the verdict up to the listener.

[Ivan Kelsall]

FJ - I've met a lot of folk who, having learned a tune from TAB,can't improvise on the tune. It might be that their inability to 'learn by ear' comes with an inability to play anything that isn't 'written down'.That doesn't meant that they can't play what they've learned well,many of them can,but ask them to improvise a break in a song / tune & they simply can't. I feel that TAB is sometimes seen as an 'easy way' to learn,& it does have it's place,but it should be used along with a lot of 'listening' to the tunes being learned. For me,that's the only way to get the 'feel' of the tune - the rhythm,the tempo etc. Take that away from your playing & there's just a lot of stale notes & it shows !.
Having spent most of my 50+ years as a 'bedroom banjo picker',learning tune after tune after.....,i decided that i'd concentrate on what i like best,learning how to be a good back up player. Earl Scruggs is the finest back up banjo player i've ever heard. Listening to the songs he played with Lester Flatt & the Boys,you can hear a rock solid melody line all the way through every song & for me,that's awesome. I decided early on in my mandolin playing,that as well as learning a few choice mandolin tunes,i'd concentrate on learning to play back up as well as i could & learn how to develop my own 'breaks' in tunes. When i hear some of the pros.out there,it's a daunting task to try to emulate their skill,but they were where i am at one time & they made the grade so they're my own inspiration to learn & it's fun !!,
Ivan

[Mark Gunter]

FJ - I've met a lot of folk who, having learned a tune from TAB,can't improvise on the tune. It might be that their inability to 'learn by ear' comes with an inability to play anything that isn't 'written down'.That doesn't meant that they can't play what they've learned well,many of them can,but ask them to improvise a break in a song / tune & they simply can't. I feel that TAB is sometimes seen as an 'easy way' to learn,& it does have it's place,but it should be used along with a lot of 'listening' to the tunes being learned. For me,that's the only way to get the 'feel' of the tune - the rhythm,the tempo etc. Take that away from your playing & there's just a lot of stale notes & it shows !.
Having spent most of my 50+ years as a 'bedroom banjo picker',learning tune after tune after.....,i decided that i'd concentrate on what i like best,learning how to be a good back up player. Earl Scruggs is the finest back up banjo player i've ever heard. Listening to the songs he played with Lester Flatt & the Boys,you can hear a rock solid melody line all the way through every song & for me,that's awesome. I decided early on in my mandolin playing,that as well as learning a few choice mandolin tunes,i'd concentrate on learning to play back up as well as i could & learn how to develop my own 'breaks' in tunes. When i hear some of the pros.out there,it's a daunting task to try to emulate their skill,but they were where i am at one time & they made the grade so they're my own inspiration to learn & it's fun !!,
Ivan

When I first picked up an instrument (Dad's guitar), he showed me a couple of chords then gave me a book and left me with it. I learned my first tunes from paper (On Top of Old Smokey, Shenandoah) out of that beginner guitar book. Then I tried to figure out some of the popular tunes of the day by ear (Elvis, Beatles, Herman's Hermits) . . . My Dad also had some song books and sheet music - Burl Ives, Hank Williams, Tennessee Ernie Ford.

And throughout my life I've continued using fake books and tab to learn tunes, and playing by ear to learn tunes. If I want to play a tune, usually I will look for tab or chord charts first, try them, correct or modify or otherwise make my arrangement, then rehearse, rehearse rehearse. If nothing suitable is found, I'll make my own arrangement from scratch, by ear.

I know that YMMV, and "to each his own", etc. etc. - but I suppose it's because of my own experience that I have a hard time understanding the either/or mindset in discussions about using written music vs playing by ear.

[fatt-dad]

I liken it the larynx, which (if you sing) we play by ear.

f-d

[Kevin Stueve]

I liken it the larynx, which (if you sing) we play by ear.

f-d

Unless of course you are reading parts to sing from.

[fatt-dad]

Unless of course you are reading parts to sing from.

That doesn't make sense to me, but OK.

f-d