Tonal comparisons: emandos and eguitars

[Christian McKee]

I'm curious how you all (especially those of you who play single course electrics) would describe the difference in sound between an electric guitar and an electric mandolin. I ask because to the acoustic mandolin fans out there, we sound just like electric guitars, but to the electric guitarists out there, we *don't*. I'll try and take a stab at it, based on my experience with a custom 5 string, a Ryder EM-44, a Mandobird, and a late 50's Fender:

1) E mandos seem to have sharper, more distinct attack. Notes almost always sound more aggressively plucked on a mandolin instrument than on a guitar. The notes seem to Attack! and Decay! right away, instead of blossoming a bit, if that makes any sense.

2) Relative lack of low-mids. Even on an instrument with a C string, these little things don't have much going on down there.

3) Puh-lenty of high end frequencies. My biggest EQ challenge is getting the clarity I like out of my lower strings, without torturing the neighborhood dogs, bandmates and prospective fans with The Mandolin Icepick. On the other hand, you can use an electric mandolin with a fuzz pedal to repel intruders...

Other thoughts?

Christian

[250sc]

When I hear Tiny Moore play I can't tell the difference between mando and guitar. It might depend on the player/gear.

Michael Kang is another that I can't tell the difference with.

[JeffD]

When I hear Tiny Moore play I can't tell the difference between mando and guitar. It might depand on the player/gear.

I agree.

Then I heard Marty Stuart on an electric, playing with Asleep at the Wheel, and his tasty solo was so very mandolin like.

[Christian McKee]

I have to admit to not knowing much Tiny Moore, but a lot of Kang's playing was on a "baritone" scale length instrument that got way closer to 25 inches, wasn't it? Seems like that would go a long way towards blurring the sonic lines between mando family and guitar family.

Christian

[Perry]

I think you summed it up pretty well Christian.....

the biggest thing I miss when playing an electric mandolin is the ability to make as much a rhythmic impact as I could with either an electric guitar or an acoustic mandolin......

[jefflester]

I have to admit to not knowing much Tiny Moore, but a lot of Kang's playing was on a "baritone" scale length instrument that got way closer to 25 inches, wasn't it?

No, Kang's Ronos are more like 18", like mandola scale length.

[mandroid]

At 25" it's more a MandoCello , Ovation's is like that, an 8 string, low CGDA ...

[Daniel Nestlerode]

eMando players tend to slide more and bend less than electric guitarists.
And yeah, I think the shorter scale length leads to a quicker attack and decay than on a guitar. Maybe it sounds a little more brittle than a guitar because of the shorter scale too.

Daniel

[flatt]

..... the biggest thing I miss when playing an electric mandolin is the ability to make as much a rhythmic impact as I could with either an electric guitar or an acoustic mandolin......

I agree; I've just got an 18" octave electric mandolin and I'm finding the chords shapes just aren't there for any kind of chordal attack.

Yes, it's great for some things ... and allows me to play solos that I wouldn't be able to do convincingly on a guitar, but - I can put my 'Keith Richards hat' on when I'm playing the mandolin, and I haven't yet found how the EOM can give me that rhythmic punch.

Maybe it will come, with time, confidence (and a lower action? )

[Martin Jonas]

Chris,

How about dropping the top E to D on your OM and using bouzouki chord shapes?

Martin

[jlsmandolin1952]

There is a sound clip from Don Julin on www.jazzmando.com playing one of my (4-string) solid bodies, that might be of interest in this discussion. Click on the builders block, and then click on j.l. smith in the list, and click the link, just above Don Julins Photo.
John

[Ted Eschliman]

Here's a more direct link to Don Julin's MP3 from the JL Smith Review on the site:

http://www.jazzmando.com/sound/JLSmithdemo.mp3

Another thing you have to factor in as far as sustain is the instruments' range. Remember a guitar E string is an octave lower than a mandolin. Stand in front of an open piano, push down the sustain pedal and pluck any of the lower strings. Do the same for the highest strings, and you'll hear a dramatic difference in length of sustain.

[GTG]

2) Relative lack of low-mids. Even on an instrument with a C string, these little things don't have much going on down there.

3) Puh-lenty of high end frequencies. My biggest EQ challenge is getting the clarity I like out of my lower strings, without torturing the neighborhood dogs, bandmates and prospective fans with The Mandolin Icepick. On the other hand, you can use an electric mandolin with a fuzz pedal to repel intruders...

Other thoughts?

Christian

Not sure I have the same experience. I find, with my Mann (5-string) I relate a bit more to the 'weak E-string' issue that was previously discussed. The CGDA all sound quite good, but the E is very thin unless I really crank the treble (which then makes everything sound quite shrill). In fact, I'm only starting to experiment with this, but I find I'm getting the best emando sound with a bunch of effects - a bit of crunch, compression and delay or phaser. Needless to say, I'm not really after (or getting) anything ressembling an acoustic mando sound here.

[Travis Wilson]

Christian, reading your posts over the years has been very interesting and helpful. And I think what you describe above is mostly true.

But I find that the emando sound does not necessarily have a definition. I think with the equipment/electronics available today coupled with the necessary playing skills, you can really get to any type of sound--providing you have the cash and inclination.

If I didn't know Michael Lampert was an emando player, then I could have been easily fooled into thinking I was hearing an electric guitar.

My old rig was quite simple: Ryder EM-44 >> Digitech RP-150 >> solid state Peavey Rage 258. Using this setup I could employ a combination of amp modeling, compression, equalization, and reverb to get very near the type of sound Lampert produces. Obviously the Peavey--not being a Polytone--and my relative lack of ability were the limiting factors.

[Joel Glassman]

>The notes seem to Attack! and Decay! right away.

This is why I always use a compression effect
and reverb (though not too much of either)
It will lessen the attack sound and boost the volume
of a decaying note, sustaining it.
For anyone not familiar with compression
re: electric guitar check this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compres...ectric_guitar)

[Shelby Eicher]

There is a tonal tibre difference in my opinion. It's created by the difference in scale lengths. I designed mine with a 16 3/4 scale length to support the mandola tuning ADGC. It sounds more guitar like than a standard emando because of the longer scale and lower tuning. My rig is very simple. Alto guitar (my emando) plugged straight into a blacktop vibrolux or princeton. I'm mostly a Jazz player so all of the effects don't interest me. Good spring reverb and soak those tubes. The best compliment I've received was after playing a set a guy came up to me and said, "I love your guitar playing." It doesn't hurt that it's shaped like a small byrdland. I've found most people listen with their eyes. Emandos never sound like guitars to me. Part of it is most people play it like a mandolin player then the tibre of the instrument gives it away. If you want to sound like a guitar player you have to play like one.
Shelby

[Dfyngravity]

Emandoist sound like eguitarist when they play up past the 12th fret.

Listen to Sam Bush play the emando.....sounds likes any great eguitarist just gettin it up around the 12thfret....at least to me.