Sound advice appreciated about tenor, Chinese or decent "Vintage"

[fox]

Hi Michael, I think you could do better with different strings.
You choices offer tensions of 21.5lb 32lb 24.5lb 18.3lb not very even!
You might want to try .13 .20 .30 . 45 that would give you 21.5lb .24.5lb 21.5lb 21.5lb
Perhaps just try changing the A & G

[michaeloceanmoon]

Hey thanks mate!! I'll try that. I would like a fatter low end, but maybe your suggestion would add some ring and more balanced finger pressure too? The store didn't have 20's or 30's available in bronze, which I like from the Regal.. I was shooting for those gauges. Do you know of a set, even a guitar set or anything that would give me that spread?
How do you figure out those tensions anyways? Is it a tool or is that stuff written on the packages and I've just never realized?

And another question,.. Any advisement for dialing in the intonation? There seems like there is enough life left on the bone saddle for a well done compensated saddle. How do I find the best set up in my town, what questions should I be asking etc.?

Thank you Fox and others!
Michael

PS: (more personal note here) I may pay it off early and take it to another shop for the set up. So long as my daughter is picking it up for my b-day I might as well take the time to have the BR completely ready when the ladies gift me..

[fox]

There are on line string tension calculators although getting to grips with them is a bit like learning to play GDAE
I buy all my strings as singles but I can assure you that 13p 20w 30w 45w work very well.
Here is one of the easier ones .... http://www.mcdonaldstrings.com/stringxxiii.html

[michaeloceanmoon]

Fox, it's amazing to have someone to talk to about this... So I've started learning Fifths in CGDA (on my regal) , but ironically,.. I'm already gearing up for GDAE on the BR. Are there any manuals etc. that are specific to the low G tuning, or did you just adapt the C fifths charts to low G?

Michael
PS: this stuff is forcing me to really think like a musician

[fox]

There is this one in both tunings http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1906207054

[Lord of the Badgers]

OK, speaking for the UK in terms of availability:
my Buchanan cost me just over 1K (GBP) but a lot of Luthiers will build you one. Nigel Forster's been quoted - I also tried Phil Davidson's - 2K GBP (and fantastic, rivalling Nigel's for tone & volume), but also he's behind cheaper ones made in Vietnam etc. In the UK one lot of those are in Hobgoblin (Ashbury) and I rated those over the Blueridge in personal taste.
These though, he assured me, are better - http://www.acousticmusicbox.com/index.php?cPath=24 but I have yet to find out if that's true.

Please note, that although I know Phil, I love my Buchanan, and wish i could afford either the Forster or Davidson made ones as an upgrade. They're exceptional instruments.

Let's add a Fylde into the mix... 1400 GBP though

[michaeloceanmoon]

Ok these are all exceptional guitars, my wife will be thrilled that after I eventually acquire my Martins I will keep on with my obsession with tenor guitars!! Who needs a retirement savings, I'll support my habit by busking into old age.

Thanks for the low G info Fox,. And one more shout out for string guage assistance. I've got the high four strings of a Martin set on my Regal (21" scale) 13, 17, 26, 35. I love the sound for DGBE and I've even tuned it up to CGDA, but the two high strings are a bit stiff. Knowing I'm liking heavier guage strings to swing back down to guitar tuning, what would you recommend as a more balanced 'heavier' set?

Taks amica
Michael

[fox]

21" scale CGDA .10p .15p .26w .34w in theory you can use a .11 for the A but I prefer a .10
GDAE .14p .20w .32w .48w - .50 can be ok on some guitars but I don't like the feel so much.
That is what I have found to work best for me but of course those sizes are not set in stone.

[michaeloceanmoon]

Ok so quite a difference between the Chicago and CGDA set, thanks a million!
I may still try to fudge shifting tunings, but now I know the ideal. Great, Michael

[mrjop1975]

Michael, this was a question I pondered when I decided to get into playing tenor guitar earlier in the year. I started on standard 6 string back when I was 16, and wanted to learn something different when I turned 40.

I bought at first my Ibanez mini-dreadnaught tenor, as at the time, Blueridge was backordered on several sites. My rational of thinking was that I know Joni Mitchell used the George Benson model Ibanez electrics live in the late 1970's early 1980's and if Ibanez was good for her, that it would be good for me. It did not really matter to me that they are off-shore made. My only complaint, if any, was that it did not have a case so had to get a case separately.

About a week after that, I was on eBay and stumbled upon the Harmony tenor I got. I found someone that buys older acoustic guitars, then refurbishes them and sells them. It did come priced with a case, which was good. Yes, it was a bit more then the Ibanez, but it had a case, and was refurbished, and frankly, the action is really great on it.

Sound wise, it's like comparing apples to oranges. Both have distinct voices, at least I think so, but a friend I'd played over the phone to could not tell which was the Ibanez and which was the Harmony.

In conclusion, yes, if you get a good refurbished instrument, there you go, but there is not shame in the game with an offshore made instrument, unless you decide to splurge on a handmade one.

[michaeloceanmoon]

Gonna bug you one last time Fox. Did you post your optimal suggestions for CGDA tuning with the 23" scale? It'll be a while til I find a plectrum so I won't hopefully be hassling you soon about guages

Thank you Mr Jop for your consideration in replying to the off shore question. I'm purchasing my Blueridge second hand yet will always hope that the folks who built it were well compensated for their work. Saga was friendly and helpful and the instrument is lovely for the price. I still would like to learn more about the larger impact, so it's an open question for me. Yet, I'm buying a Blueridge so I'm trusting in things which are beyond my understanding and control. I guess a lot of life is like that.

Be well all, Michael

[fox]

Well that is a more difficult one in my experience, the standard recommended .10 string for the A is under almost 24lb of pull weight and is prone to breaking! However .9 does not quite sound right on some instruments..
I am not a great fan of CGDA on my longer scale tenors but on the blueridge I found .9 .14 .20 .32 was pretty good although .10 .15 .22 .34 is what I would call a heavy set that some folk might prefer
I have seen quite a few people saying they like 10 14 24 30 but I did not!
PS - I sent you a pm....

[Explorer]

Just as a handy rule of thumb regarding breaking points:

At 25.5" scale lengths, the breaking point of a string is at or just past G#4. If the string is thinner, it takes less tension to get to that pitch, but it's not as strong. If the string is thicker, it's stronger, but needs more tension to get to pitch. The strength/tension converge at that pitch as the breaking point.

So, if i want to easily know the breaking pitch of the highest string string at other scale lengths, I can easily look up a fret placement calculator like the one at stew mac, using a scale length of 25.5 inches, and then subtract enough frets to get to the scale length I'm looking for, while also raising the pitch by a half step for each fret I've subtracted.

The first fret is 1.4" from the nut, so I"ll round up (25.5 - 1.5 = 24”) to determine that a string will break at (G#4 plus one half step =) A4 at 24”.

The second fret is 2.782" from that 25.5” nut, so at 22.7", the breaking point is A#.

And so on.

I normally calculate my target string tensions based on what known string tensions I've already liked, while also going for progressive tensions (higher tensions the lower you go).

Anyway, my point is, at 23" scale length for A, all strings will be just a half step short of the breaking point, regardless of the gauge.

[michaeloceanmoon]

Hey btw. I just played a Stella Tenor and a Silvertone tenor today and while they each had compelling characteristics, I was very grateful that I decided on my Blueridge after the experience. Both of those instruments seemed relatively quiet. Perhaps with a better set up they may have felt more tonally balanced. The Silvertone's neck had a nice feel but possibly needed a fret job because the first three to five frets seemed pretty off with their intonation. I could see really wanting to set up those instruments as best as possible yet still at the end of the day wanting more of a tiger in the tank. Both were cool as a part of a conceptual arsenal, yet limited acoustically. But I know it's very hit or miss, maybe some of those older models are more impressive than others.
Michael

[michaeloceanmoon]

Fox, just to have all your string guage wisdom at the ready..
What are your DGBE recommendations for guages on both the 21" and the 23"?

Thank you again and again!
I'm shifting tunings between my instruments and wanting to have all the proper guages at the ready when I experiment.

Mivhael

[fox]

Well that is not a tuning I use so I have not tested out any string combinations however - for a 23" scale I would try 13 17 20 30 for a 21" try 14 18p (or 18w if you can get one)32.

[michaeloceanmoon]

May others help you as much as you have helped me!
Michael

[Chip Stewart]

Fox, just to have all your string guage wisdom at the ready..
What are your DGBE recommendations for guages on both the 21" and the 23"?

Thank you again and again!
I'm shifting tunings between my instruments and wanting to have all the proper guages at the ready when I experiment.

Mivhael

I use DR Sunbeam RCA-12 strings (0.012, 0.016, 0.024, and 0.032) on my BR-60T. I considered moving up to a set of RCA-13 strings, but my BR-60T is already extremely loud with the RCA-12 strings so I didn't see the need.

[fox]

Hi Chip, just in case you are interested those gauges give you aprox 19 19 27 24 lbs.

[Chip Stewart]

Hi Chip, just in case you are interested those gauges give you aprox 19 19 27 24 lbs.

Thanks Fox. What string tension do you usually use on a 23 inch scale?

[fox]

I think different folk prefer different tensions, but I like to finger pick so I find an even tentsion of around 20lb per string works for me. It seems all my tenors sound at there best with similar tentsion of all four strings but that is not to say others might like something different!
So 19 - 22 lb is what I aim for.

[michaeloceanmoon]

Not to beat a dead string Fox, would you clarify? Are you also recommending a .020 for your G on DGBE with a 21" scale? You only listed 14, 18, and 32? Or is it 14,18,18wound, 32? So sorry, may this be my last guage question.

Obliged
Michael

[fox]

I don't know how it would sound but you could also try .18 wound for the B .....

[TenorMan]

I own a Blueridge BR40-T, and a 1934 Gibson Kalamazoo KTG-11. I love them both. However, the Kal is currently at the luthiers' shop, getting age related things repaired...neck reset, nut, saddle, refret, and a belly that they can't fix because of the ladder bracing. Just about any antique guitar you come across will have to have one or more of these things done to them, simply because they are so old. The Blueridge was pretty darned Martin sounding right out of the box. The Chinese have done remarkably well with workmanship over the last twenty years. You couldn't find an American made guitar like that unless you paid thousands. The Blueridge sounds fantastic. My old Kalamazoo, which is entirely solid wood, will sound fantastic too...after sinking about $1200.00 into it.