New Herb Taylor tenor guitar

[zoukboy]

Hi Roger,
I meant using this method to lengthen the C2 string. If it was about 27" that should be long enough. The rest of the strings 22".

Ah! Sorry. I misunderstood. I can attest that A1 works very well on a 27" scale, so a slightly lighter string at C2 on that same length would probably sound amazing. :-)

FWIW, if you want the GDAE strings on 22", you can easily add frets to that scale for the extension by dividing by .9438. One fret would be 22/.9438=23.31". Two frets=24.69". Three frets= 26.16".

[zoukboy]

Happy n+1, Roger! Look forward to seeing more photos and perhaps a video?

How are you finding the pinpoint capos so far? How's the intonation on the bass course?

Hey Niall,

The capos work very well. There is a little tiny bit of a challenge when putting one on the low double course because of the big disparity in gauge between the .062" classical guitar bass string and the .034" phosphor bronze for its octave companion, but other than that they work very well. Sometimes I have to quickly fine tune the 4th string after capoing but that slight inconvenience is really worth having so many options for drone notes.

My favorites so far:

"Open A" -- sounds HUGE
E4 (open)
A3 (open)
E3 (capo II)
A2 (capo II)
A1 (open)

"8va Mando over D" -- really usable for Irish tunes, etc.
E4 (open)
A3 (open)
D3 (open)
G2 (open)
D2 (capo V)

"Open G over C"
D4 (tuned down 1 step)
G3 (tuned down 1 step)
D3 (open)
G2 (open)
C2 (capo III)

I haven't experimented with Bb or B tunings yet but I will soon.

[Baron Collins-Hill]

I hope you can put up a video or sound clip at some point, Roger, I'd love to hear it!

As a stylistic question, I am wondering whether you plan on strumming though all the strings on this thing or playing it more cross-picked zouk style? I ask because my style of tenor guitar playing is based around strumming rather than cross picking (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsLlTeZ2ZqI for an example) and that style really didn't hold up on the (very nice) nordic mandola that I played, though it sounded great when played more delicately. My dream instrument is something similar to what you've got (perhaps just with a single course on the low A) that I can really wail on without overdriving it in to a puddle of mush.

Part of me feels like once you get to that extended low A course there are some physical properties at play that require a more delicate touch due to the scale length and the guage of the string that make such and instrument impossible, but maybe some builder out there has done it.

Thanks again for sharing, that this is a beauty!

[bruce.b]

I'm very happy with my GDAE tuned tenors, yet I go back and forth about possibly getting a 5 string with an added low C. Until this thread I didn't know of any good way to go about it since I don't want to go longer than 22" on the GDAE strings. I love the idea of 4 strings, it's part of what attracted me to tenors in the first place, and keeping the instrument as simple as possible, but I bet a low C with a long scale length using Roger's extended tenor idea would sound great. The pinpoint capos intrigue me also. I play a lot of Irish trad and using a pinpoint on the C string to have an open D would be so much fun and incredibly useful. I'm going to mull this idea over for a couple of months and if I decide to go for it I'll contact Herb and see what he has to say. It would be more than a year from now before I got it if I do it.

[zoukboy]

I hope you can put up a video or sound clip at some point, Roger, I'd love to hear it!

As a stylistic question, I am wondering whether you plan on strumming though all the strings on this thing or playing it more cross-picked zouk style? I ask because my style of tenor guitar playing is based around strumming rather than cross picking (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsLlTeZ2ZqI for an example) and that style really didn't hold up on the (very nice) nordic mandola that I played, though it sounded great when played more delicately. My dream instrument is something similar to what you've got (perhaps just with a single course on the low A) that I can really wail on without overdriving it in to a puddle of mush.

Part of me feels like once you get to that extended low A course there are some physical properties at play that require a more delicate touch due to the scale length and the guage of the string that make such and instrument impossible, but maybe some builder out there has done it.

Thanks again for sharing, that this is a beauty!

Hello Baron,

Thanks! Great playing on that clip, by the way!

You bring up an interesting point. I first tried out the low A1 string idea on a 12 string and was immediately sold on it. There is a significant difference in string tension with that .062" NylW string compared to the phosphor bronze strings (16.77# vs 21-24#) but it does not present a major obstacle to me because the phosphor bronze octave string in the pair provides more resistance. To my way of thinking that would almost certainly be worse with just the NylW string in a single course.

One thing that might work well is to use the extension to lower a string to C2 or D2 while keeping the GDAE strings at 22"-23". That would be 26"-27" and with a C2 or D2 you could use a single core phosphor bronze string of .054-.056 and it would probably sound just great.

The other thing is I am approaching that low as almost being from a different instrument. For me the function of that low note is for drones, occasionally for chords, less so for melodies, so its having a different tone and requiring a slightly lighter touch is not really a disadvantage because those aspects simply reinforce that - for me - it has different function. Does that make any sense?

[zoukboy]

I'm very happy with my GDAE tuned tenors, yet I go back and forth about possibly getting a 5 string with an added low C. Until this thread I didn't know of any good way to go about it since I don't want to go longer than 22" on the GDAE strings. I love the idea of 4 strings, it's part of what attracted me to tenors in the first place, and keeping the instrument as simple as possible, but I bet a low C with a long scale length using Roger's extended tenor idea would sound great. The pinpoint capos intrigue me also. I play a lot of Irish trad and using a pinpoint on the C string to have an open D would be so much fun and incredibly useful. I'm going to mull this idea over for a couple of months and if I decide to go for it I'll contact Herb and see what he has to say. It would be more than a year from now before I got it if I do it.

Bruce,

See my reply to Baron above re: a C2 extended bass string on a 22-23" tenor. :-)

[zoukboy]

Played the new tenor in a session for the first time tonight and was very pleased. Everyone commented on how loud it is. I noticed it started to open up a couple of days ago and it is certainly louder than the other tenors I have owned. I used the low double string for drones (A1 and D2) and incorporated it into some accompaniments but I was mostly playing melody all night. So far so good!

[mikeyes]

Roger,

I loved the design with the zouk and it looks great with the TG. Is it as loud as the zouk? I am sure the tone is great if it is anything like the rest of his tenor guitars.

To me, Herb Taylor is the best zouk/TG luthier out there with his innovative ideas, his willingness to build anything that sounds feasible no matter how weird (I'm talking to you Roger <G>), and his consistently great instruments. I'd love to have this one but I love my 173 and just played it in a session tonight where it not only held its own, but was played by everyone in the group because everyone seemed to love it so I won't bite the bullet, yet.

Mike Keyes

[zoukboy]

Roger,

I loved the design with the zouk and it looks great with the TG. Is it as loud as the zouk? I am sure the tone is great if it is anything like the rest of his tenor guitars.

Yes, I think it is though I haven't A/B'd them. I think you would like it. :-)

[zoukboy]

After playing this tenor for a about three months I have come to really love it. It sounds great, nice and punchy and loud. There is no problem being heard in the small session we have here.

I have come up with three different approaches to using the pin capos to alter the tuning:

1. D²G²D³A³E⁴ with the A¹(C²) string capoed at V, and the E²(G²) string capoed at III. Low D drone + GDAE.
2. A¹A²E³A³E⁴ with the A¹(C²) string open, E²(G²) capoed at V, D³ string capoed at II. A drone tuning.
3. B¹F#²D³A³E⁴ with the A¹(C²) string capoed at II and the E²(G²) string capoed at II. Great for Bm tunes.

[Niall Anderson]

1. D²G²D³A³E⁴ with the A¹(C²) string capoed at V, and the E²(G²) string capoed at III. Low D drone + GDAE.
2. A¹A²E³A³E⁴ with the A¹(C²) string open, E²(G²) capoed at V, D³ string capoed at II. A drone tuning.
3. B¹F#²D³A³E⁴ with the A¹(C²) string capoed at II and the E²(G²) string capoed at II. Great for Bm tunes.

I think DADAE is pretty great for D tunes - Marit Falt uses that a lot on her latmandola, particularly when swapping between melody and accompaniment. Useful for modulating to tunes in A in the same set, as well, perhaps, but that may be a particularly Scottish thing (all those GHB tunes).

Tuning 2, of course, registers on seismographs around the world when used...

Great to hear the instrument is working well for you. I have plans to go down the latmandola route at some point - will be interesting to compare notes when/ if that happens!

Niall

[fox]

Hi Rodger, did you ever make a video using this amazing instrument?

[Lord of the Badgers]

we MUST hear it!!!

[Charles E.]

Ditto.

[zoukboy]

I haven't yet but will try to get some thing recorded soon.

[Niall Anderson]

There's a video on Herb Taylor's website (gallery of sold tenor guitars). Be great to hear more of the instrument if you get a chance, though, Roger.

[zoukboy]

There's a video on Herb Taylor's website (gallery of sold tenor guitars). Be great to hear more of the instrument if you get a chance, though, Roger.

I had forgotten about that, Niall. That clip doesn't really do the sound justice since Herb was just using the onboard mic on his video recorder. I will try and get a proper recording of it and post it here before long.

[Niall Anderson]

For reference (having found the URL now), the video is at

http://www.herbtaylor.com/instruments/tenorguitar/i207/

although I can't get it to run just now - my PC must not have the correct plug-ins installed currently! It has worked in the past though, so suspect it's just me...

[Lord of the Badgers]

I only got sound and no video... Confusing!

[zoukboy]

Hi Roger,
I meant using this method to lengthen the C2 string. If it was about 27" that should be long enough. The rest of the strings 22".

Meant to reply to this and forgot - Bruce, I knew that I wanted approx. 23" scale for the shorter strings, and Herb determined that the longest advisable scale for the extended bass strings was 27", so working back from 27" and multiplying by .9438 (the formula to reduce a scale by one fret) three times we arrived at 22.69", which was well within the ballpark.

You could do the reverse, working back from 22", by dividing by .9438 three times (if you wanted the three fret extension). That would make the longer scale length 26.1"

[bruce.b]

I just reread this thread because I'm in discussions with Herb about building me another tenor. I love #205 that Herb built for me, but I'm thinking about something very different. So far, a longer scale, 22.75 vs 21.25, a through body neck with the tailpiece post coming up through a hole in the soundboard, like Roger's, and a cutaway body to easily access the higher notes. I'm leaning towards a light soundboard construction and bridge, again like on the one here, or possibly a super light lattice soundboard and a zero down pressure bridge like on #183. Soundboard will be spruce. I was planning on a standard four string tenor in octave mandolin tuning (GDAE), but this thread has me thinking about a low fifth string. Probably not, but I'm thinking about it. Maybe pinpoint tuners on the G And D strings so I can play in AEAE without retuning. It will certainly sound unlike #205, which is a short scale archtop. I'm looking for a great sounding, powerful little tenor, mostly for fiddle tunes, but also to experiment with more chordal playing and maybe even some fingerpicking. Thoughts very welcome since I'm still in the early stages of this project.

[fox]

That sounds exciting Bruce!
The last few I have built have one long neck right though the body & a pin in the tail block to take the strain, they work very well.
I love my nylon string tenors though!

[zoukboy]

I just reread this thread because I'm in discussions with Herb about building me another tenor. I love #205 that Herb built for me, but I'm thinking about something very different. So far, a longer scale, 22.75 vs 21.25, a through body neck with the tailpiece post coming up through a hole in the soundboard, like Roger's, and a cutaway body to easily access the higher notes. I'm leaning towards a light soundboard construction and bridge, again like on the one here, or possibly a super light lattice soundboard and a zero down pressure bridge like on #183. Soundboard will be spruce. I was planning on a standard four string tenor in octave mandolin tuning (GDAE), but this thread has me thinking about a low fifth string. Probably not, but I'm thinking about it. Maybe pinpoint tuners on the G And D strings so I can play in AEAE without retuning. It will certainly sound unlike #205, which is a short scale archtop. I'm looking for a great sounding, powerful little tenor, mostly for fiddle tunes, but also to experiment with more chordal playing and maybe even some fingerpicking. Thoughts very welcome since I'm still in the early stages of this project.

Bruce:

I don't know how a zero DP bridge would work with the through-neck and post tailpiece. Good question to ask Herb. The floating bridge on mine works great. The only thing I would do differently is to have Herb use an all wood bridge. Mine has a bone saddle on top and while that seems to work fine for the wound strings I think the tone of the one unwound string (E) could be better.

[Jill McAuley]

I emailed Herb yesterday inquiring about getting a tenor guitar built - question for folks who have his instruments: does he tend to reply quickly or should I anticipate a bit of a wait?

[bruce.b]

He's backpacking. Coming back sometime Sunday. What are you thinking about? His tenors are great, I love mine.