Good strings & setup a great mandolin makes

[phil39]

I have two high end Eastmans. an 805 (teardrop F holes) that I bought several years ago from Bernunzio's and an 804 (teardrop round hole) that I bought recently second hand on ebay. I think they are great instruments especially the 805. It has a slightly larger body, and I think the F holes also help to give it a mellower sound. Tonight I took the 804 to an Irish music session. I guy I'd met before at the same place, let me play his Gildchrist for a while. While it sounded good, I still preferred my instrument. For one thing, my action is slightly more comfortable. (I think his was a bit high). But mostly because of the Thomastik flatwound strings that I always use on both my instruments. I don't know what strings he was using, but they certainly weren't Thomastiks. I love that non-tinny pure sound. They're expensive but you'd pay at least half again as much for good violin strings, so why not treat your Mandolin the same as your fiddle?

Also this experience vindicates my opinion that Eastman mandolins are great instruments. Treat it right, and the sound you'll get is just as good as a hand made instrument. Just like those sought after German factory made Violins from the early 20th century.

[Caleb]

Only thing I'll add is that an Eastman is also a handmade instrument. They don't carry the snob appeal of higher-end makers, but they are fine instruments on their own.

[ccravens]

Only thing I'll add is that an Eastman is also a handmade instrument. They don't carry the snob appeal of higher-end makers, but they are fine instruments on their own.

That "snob appeal" of which you make reference, may just be people who prefer the sound and fit-and-finish of those "high-end" instruments, and have the income to purchase them.

It doesn't necessarily make them "snobs."

[Willie Poole]

I just want to add that at a local festival a year or so ago I went to the Eastman display table and played every mandolin that they had (about 14-15) and NOT about a one did anything for me, I know different people hear things different and a lot of them play a different kind of music than I do so I guess whatever floats your boat makes you happy, BTW...I own a few mandolins that are from the high end "snobs", not saying all of their mandolins are great but the ones I have suit me just fine....

Willie

[Caleb]

My snob appeal comment was and is lighthearted to a degree. I own a Collings and an Eastman. Yes, the Collings is a much better mandolin, but the Eastman could've served me well for all of life if that was all I ever had. I stand by my comments though, because the status symbol aspect is very real in the world of musical instruments. The fact that threads like this exist is further proof. Some people here (though I'm not sure about the OP) seem to feel the need to justify owning "lower end" stuff because the attitudes of superiority are so prevelant regarding "better" gear.

But I say play what you have and enjoy it. Life's too short and no one outside this little mandolin bubble of the world cares anyway.

[phil39]

You're right Caleb, there is a bit of "my instrument is better because it's handmade in a western democracy" snobbery. Most annoying when it's just assumed, as if it's a natural law. I'm happy with what I've got, and I think that any improvement that might come from a more expensive instrument would be insufficient to warrant the extra cost. ie: The law of diminishing returns.

My main point however was that : Wow those Thomastiks are great strings, and I wouldn't use anything else. and that's probably the main factor in this comparison.

[Kowboy]

Caleb; Not offended here! The truth hurts sometimes. Can't count the times I'd catch other players eyeing my head-stock, just to see the label on it.

[pheffernan]

My main point however was that : Wow those Thomastiks are great strings, and I wouldn't use anything else. and that's probably the main factor in this comparison.

If you subscribe to the law of diminishing returns with expensive instruments, you might find the D'Addario EFW74's an attractive alternative to the TI's, providing most of the benefits of a flatwound string set at roughly 1/4th the price.

[MysTiK PiKn]

Such a happy bunch. My mandolin has improved with new strings; although I think I can do better with some different strings - and I appreciate mention of alternatives. And the setup work I have done already has improved things. So I guess I qualify to state those comments, as per the topic. The rest of this, I dunno; but I have already bought my happiness at a good price. I hope that's good enough; and if it isn't, I will improve it by doing my own setup work even more. And in the jam session; the nod goes to you - play it or freeze - same as it ever was.
I played a plywood special in a jam with a herd of guitars; stole the break and blew em all away - and they all really enjoyed that too. That was a friendly jam. Not all jams are so happy when the egos have a personal private unannounced ulterior undisclosed motive. Oh, well. I am still truly impressed. And you know it.
Another time I was in a room full of Martins w my Gibson. After one song, a spectator said "Wow, that guitar sounds really good"
Sometimes you win, sometimes not so much; but it's all for fun and happiness; there's lots of ways to get that, so, unless you have other plans, have a wonderful day full of true wonder - there's no lack of that either. And it's always available and free for the taking. Enjoy it.
Thanks for sharing freely.
Me, I have some other things to attend to in my incredible journey. Peace.
Later.
Thanks again for the string info. The search continues elsewhere.

[ccravens]

But I say play what you have and enjoy it.

If that is really your philosophy, then it would behoove you not to accuse people of being snobs simply because they are "playing what they have" and enjoying it.

[Capt. E]

My first "good" mandolin was purchased for $125 and a good set-up cost me $70. The set-up made all the difference and it was my favorite instrument for many years. Since then I have passed it on to a lady who is now happily learning to play with an instrument that won't impede her progress.

[Jeff Mando]

Let's be honest, music can be played on a $50 mandolin or guitar or a $10 harmonica, but it is a lot more fun on a great instrument. And for so many reasons. Instead of using the word "snob", I would offer "elitist", because in any collecting hobby there is elitism. We want the rare stamp, baseball card, etc. And face it, if you're playing a $20K mandolin, there IS elitism involved. There is nothing wrong with that at all. Wine collectors don't apologize for owning $300 bottles of wine and consuming them. Ferrari owner's don't apologize for owning one of the world's finest autos. The list goes on and on--fine art, Leica cameras, Rolex watches, owning race horses, etc. And, as previously stated, if you can afford it, why not? One of life's rewards.....

OTOH, (you saw it coming, didn't you?) there probably will be resulting scorn, envy and jealousy from others, due to perceived classism. You have also witnessed the "anti" version of this in people who only play and collect cheap instruments, sometimes cool old Strad-O-Lins, Harmonys, Stellas, etc.--and there is elitism involved in making such a statement, also. An anti-money statement. I remember a Rush Limbaugh quote from a few years ago. Something to the effect that the inner city ghettos were not terrible, ugly places because the people who lived there were bad, but BECAUSE they didn't have the wherewithal to maintain their properties, remove rubbish, landscape, etc. and make them nice. Of course, if you make 70 million a year, it is easier to hire people to do that for you, isn't it? Fortunately, here we just have to deal with the inequities amongst instruments.....

No apology, I'm just an average guy and I like instruments. I've owned a bunch, but I've never owned a Loar and to be honest the price holds me back, but I still would like to have one someday. Is that being elite? Sure, in the sense that I know I want one and why. And also in the sense that not everybody has one. Would it propel my enjoyment of music to new and incredible heights? I doubt it, but I also hope it would. Years ago, Cadillac used a subtle term to advertise their cars, "pride of ownership". I think that is a good term and can be used across the board on all makes and models of mandolins.

[Salmon Man]

Interesting thread, if a little contentious. A few ideas I'd like to throw out there:

I'm proud to live in a state that produces high quality Mandolins. I own a Breedlove and hope to own a Weber some day. When I camp and fish along the Deschutes River, I like that the instrument I'm playing was made a few miles upriver with mainly local, native woods. I could play a less expensive Chinese instrument, but would I get as much enjoyment out of that? Fine instrument making and maintenance is an art and a business that I would like to keep in America. I am lucky enough to own American made Gibsons, Martins, Guild, Breedlove, etc. Part of the satisfaction of owning and playing them is knowing that I'm taking part in an American musical legacy. I would and do pay more for American made instruments. I do own a few instruments made in Mexico, Japan, South Korea, and yes, China, but I'm always a little more content to play the American made instruments. Yes, I do think they are overall better quality too, though perhaps not for the money spent.

Regarding the tone that an individual likes, here's a little story. My luthier's shop in Portland is well-known and services a number of professional musicians' instruments. They also have quite a few used acoustic guitars for sale at any given time. A while back, one of the well-known pros took a fancy to a particular guitar in the shop, but didn't buy it. Soon after, another well-known professional guitarist came in and played the guitars on the rack. He didn't care for the one the first pro liked, but found another one that spoke to him.......

Back to the title of the thread: I totally agree and would add that I think the setup is possibly the most important feature of a fretted instrument in terms of enjoyability. Cheers!

BTW, is democracy snobby?

[phil39]

If you subscribe to the law of diminishing returns with expensive instruments, you might find the D'Addario EFW74's an attractive alternative to the TI's, providing most of the benefits of a flatwound string set at roughly 1/4th the price.

Well I've tried the EFW74s, and to me they sounded horrible and tinny. They're not a patch on the Thomastiks. In this case, the returns are not diminishing.

[Jeff Mando]

there is a bit of "my instrument is better because it's handmade in a western democracy" snobbery. Most annoying when it's just assumed, as if it's a natural law.

I think that is just because of the history, both of the "modern" Gibson-style mandolin and also the history of many types of music played on it--Bluegrass, for one.

Without trying to cause an international incident or sounding like a snob, I will explain. Of course, the mandolin was not invented in the USA, but the "modern" Gibson design is the style that everybody copies, regardless of country of manufacture. I agree, many of the imports are nice. I had an older Alvarez A-style that was wonderful and like an idiot I sold it for $275 or something insignificant. I doubt if I could find another for $500 that sounded as good. If it sounds good, it is good! Simple as that.

Of course, the USA is quick to claim "we" invented Bluegrass music, along with Jazz, Blues, Rockabilly, Rock'N'Roll, and probably others. No, "we" didn't invent Reggae or Skiffle......UK can claim Skiffle, Germany cameras, the Swiss watches, Canada gave us hockey, the list goes on and on. I'm no music historian, but I have studied and enjoyed music as a fan and a professional player since 1966. Music historians have called this "creative burst" of music a 20th century phenom that could only have occured in the "New World." Their words, not mine. (Ken Burns, Jazz documentary film)

How many times have you seen an instrument advertised as "sounding as good as a Gibson or Martin?" I have often. I've also rarely seen an Epiphone advertised without saying "Made by Gibson" in the title. I had guys try to sell me some import guitar using the line, "I think Martin made it." Even though the Martin name was nowhere to be found.....but showing the influence of a standard of excellence.

I'm sure the comparison extends in the form of a loving tribute, even by luthiers in the "Democratic West" who aspire to make a mandolin true to the standards of Gibson and Loar. I don't think that is a stretch or a negative thing at all.

Of course, if we are really talking price, then we each have to decide what something is worth to us, as individuals.

[JeffD]

Handmade to me is like homemade. Its a sidetracking issue. The real issue is well made. And if its not well made, I don't care if its handmade or homemade, factory made, or union maid.

Phil those 800 series Eastmans must be something, because I hear so many good things about them. Enjoy the potatoes out of them. (While you save for your Ellis )

[johes]

My snob appeal comment was and is lighthearted to a degree. I own a Collings and an Eastman. Yes, the Collings is a much better mandolin, but the Eastman could've served me well for all of life if that was all I ever had. I stand by my comments though, because the status symbol aspect is very real in the world of musical instruments. The fact that threads like this exist is further proof. Some people here (though I'm not sure about the OP) seem to feel the need to justify owning "lower end" stuff because the attitudes of superiority are so prevelant regarding "better" gear.

But I say play what you have and enjoy it. Life's too short and no one outside this little mandolin bubble of the world cares anyway.

Well said Caleb

[k0k0peli]

Of course, the USA is quick to claim "we" invented Bluegrass music, along with Jazz, Blues, Rockabilly, Rock'N'Roll, and probably others. No, "we" didn't invent Reggae or Skiffle......UK can claim Skiffle, Germany cameras, the Swiss watches, Canada gave us hockey, the list goes on and on.

Actually, a few French blokes invented photography and cameras, and the English invented watches and ice hockey. (Germans DID work out how to produce good cameras, lenses, and harmonicas.) And it wasn't "the Americans" who invented bluegrass (or jazz, or rock'n'roll), but some specific USA Southerners weaving together pre-existing strands of music using modified mostly-European instruments. At least, that's how I read the histories. Let's see, what are USA-invented instruments? Flat mandos, 5-string and tenor banjo, washtub bass, and electric guitars. A nice contribution, there.

Meanwhile, I sure hope the D'Addario EFW74's that I just now ordered sound good on my Rogue RM-100A. Hey, they're 1/3 the cost of the instrument!

[zedmando]

A good setup is worth it.

[almeriastrings]

I don't know what strings he was using, but they certainly weren't Thomastiks. I love that non-tinny pure sound. They're expensive but you'd pay at least half again as much for good violin strings, so why not treat your Mandolin the same as your fiddle?

Because not everyone likes Thomastik mandolin strings? They do not suit every style of player, or every mandolin. Just like other brands. If you like them on your mandolin, that's great - but they sound (to my ears) absolutely dire on the instruments I have tried them on. As with mandolins - if you like what you have, play it and enjoy it, but not everyone likes the same things...

[Finger Stylish]

Caleb; Not offended here! The truth hurts sometimes. Can't count the times I'd catch other players eyeing my head-stock, just to see the label on it.

I am guilty of the eyeing the Headstock, but mainly because I look for any opportunity to play a brand I have never been able to play before.
I do the same eyeing with banjo headstocks, banjo heads, Guitars Headstocks, Rifle scopes.

I'm in the seek and discover class. (if it's legal)

[Sterling]

Trumpet players do the same thing. We eye other horns to try to make us better players besides practicing!

[Caleb]

I am guilty of the eyeing the Headstock, but mainly because I look for any opportunity to play a brand I have never been able to play before.
I do the same eyeing with banjo headstocks, banjo heads, Guitars Headstocks, Rifle scopes.

I'm in the seek and discover class. (if it's legal)

I also eye headstocks, mostly as a habit of curiosity. It is interesting to see what people play and why. But my favorite is when I run into someone who doesn't really know anything about his mandolin or guitar, but just loves to play it and cherishes it because it allows him to do so. I had (still have) an old Takamine that I cherished until I realized by surfing internet forums that it was really a piece of junk, and what I needed was a Martin or some other high-end brand. I didn't know my guitar was made of laminate woods and didn't know I was supposed to care. I put that guitar away for a long time and my love for it was genuinely spoiled. But now that I'm over all that stuff, I enjoy my Takamine again.

If you can genuinely enjoy what you have, you will have a much better life.

[Andy Fielding]

And having said all that—the player is the most important part of all. ;?)

[k0k0peli]

And having said all that—the player is the most important part of all. ;?)

S/he had BETTER be the most important part! When I get an axe that's better than I am -- shoot me.