Manipulating One's Pick

[caradoxical]

Hi all, this is my first post on Mandolin Cafe, so apologies in advance if this is a common forum question that I'm just restating.

I'm quite new to the mandolin and am getting used to using a stiffer pick (compared to the picks I've used when playing the guitar) and I've started to wonder, do mandolinists use different grips for different styles of playing? I've found much better success using soft grip to play tremolo, but when I try to strum using this same grip, I keep dropping my pick on the upstroke.

Any guidance for a newbie on proper pick technique?

[LongBlackVeil]

Yes I think it's good to vary the amount of pressure with which to hold the pick. Gripping tighter will produce a louder tone, but you will lose a lot of sweetness and put more tension which can decrease speed and accuracy. I think it's best to grip as lightly as you can while still producing the volume that you need to be heard and of course you don't want to lose the pick. So there's a balance.

If your talking about varying the way that you hold the pick, no I dont think that's a good idea

I think there's a lot of things that you can do differently and kind of figure out on your own what's best for you, but I personally think there's only one way to hold a mandolin pick. And that is like this picture below, curled index finger with only a little bit of the pick sticking out.

It's also good to angle the pick a little bit, hitting the strings with the edge of the pick instead of just flat, but that is one of those things you can figure out on your own. Angling the pick does give a sweeter tone and helps ensure that you are hitting both strings in a course, which is actually more of a problem with some people than you would think. I angle my pick backwards like John Reischman, that feels more natural to me, but most angle the pick forwards

[Bill Clements]

You may be allowing too much of your plectrum to extend beyond your fingers.
I recommend Chris Thile's DVD, "Essential Techniques for Mandolin" which is available from Homespun Video.
Mike Marshall also has a good video about mandolin basics on YouTube. Check out Pete Martin's videos there, too. IMHO, I prefer a pick that is not too heavy. It's a bit like playing the violin with a 2X4.
Welcome to the Cafe!

[Bertram Henze]

You'll know you have the best pick grip when you can use it for everything.
Don't wiggle the pick in your hand when you play tremolo, wiggle your wrist, just like when you're strumming.

[August Watters]

I also use a pick grip much like the photo in post #2, but there's also a school of thought that says the forefinger should be straight, not bent. Both ways are commonly used, but since your choice affects the rest of the picking mechanism, you need to choose one way or the other. Either is OK!

[JonZ]

You'll know you have the best pick grip when you can use it for everything.
Don't wiggle the pick in your hand when you play tremolo, wiggle your wrist, just like when you're strumming.

I find that I make micro adjustments depending on the picking task.

[bratsche]

I also use a pick grip much like the photo in post #2, but there's also a school of thought that says the forefinger should be straight, not bent. Both ways are commonly used, but since your choice affects the rest of the picking mechanism, you need to choose one way or the other. Either is OK!

I'm one of the people who plays with a straightened forefinger (if you take away the pick, it crosses under the thumb like an X). If I try to curl it, it goes completely numb in no time just from the vibrations of playing, a thing that doesn't happen to my other fingers, which are loosely curled but don't get the impact of those vibrations. And my hand also makes those "micro-adjustments" in relative tension or looseness, depending on what I'm playing, what speed and dynamics, etc. It's not always the same exact pick hold.

bratsche

[Pasha Alden]

Not extending too much of the plectrum beyond the fingers and letting your wrist do the movements and of course not too loose a grip, but also not too tight and tense a grip will certainly assist. It's one of my areas of weakness and needs constant reminding, as I had to get used to controlling the plectrum, like controlling the bow when playing the violin. Often I'm still tempted to play only with my fingers, but that would not do in all circumstances as one needs the tone and I found playing with the fingers alone can cause blisters especially when strumming hard and fast.

Good luck and happy playing!

[DavidKOS]

Of course there is use of the forearm and wrist in mandolin picking - but there is also subtle manipulation of the pick by the thumb and index finger too.

This seems to never get mentioned for some reason.

[JonZ]

Of course there is use of the forearm and wrist in mandolin picking - but there is also subtle manipulation of the pick by the thumb and index finger too.

This seems to never get mentioned for some reason.

I think that is because most people start out picking AT the strings with thumb and index motion, while the goal is to pick THROUGH the strings with wrist motion. So, to eliminate the bad habit of picking AT the strings, the shorthand we use for correct picking is "wrist; not fingers and thumb".

Since you really can't eliminate all finger and thumb motion, it goes without saying.

[JeffD]

Mike Marshall also has a good video about mandolin basics on YouTube. Check out Pete Martin's videos there, too.

These are great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmagoBQunZI at 40 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vwxDSTu9e0 at 2 mins

[JeffD]

I tend to keep my unused fingers curled, but not pulled into a fist. Just lightly curled.

[DavidKOS]

I think that is because most people start out picking AT the strings with thumb and index motion, while the goal is to pick THROUGH the strings with wrist motion. So, to eliminate the bad habit of picking AT the strings, the shorthand we use for correct picking is "wrist; not fingers and thumb".

Since you really can't eliminate all finger and thumb motion, it goes without saying.

Interesting idea - my teachers and personal experience were along the lines of the thumb and index motion IS what makes a good follow-through, as opposed to plinking or tinkling the strings, what you call picking at the strings.

The picking motion of course originates in the forearm and wrist, but the fingers themselves are the last part of the technical chain and in such techniques as circular picking, which I do on both guitar and mandolin, uses the finger and thumb a great deal.

Just to be sure, though, the motion of the thumb and 1st finger I'm referring to is quite small, focused and can be powerful, so it's not the same thing as the bad habit you mention.

So I thought it a good idea to mention it. Your explanation makes a lot of sense.

"Since you really can't eliminate all finger and thumb motion, it goes without saying"

So I do say that it depends on what motion those fingers are doing and how much control one has.

Thanks!

[Bill Baldridge]

I personally think there is only one way to hold a mandolin pic, and that is the one that works for you. Our bodies are all different and there is some variation in how different people how a pic for the best results. Don't make my mistake and try to copy the "perfect" technique. Look at a video of Mike Marshall and then Adam Steffey, and tell me which one is right for both players? Whichever grip is best for you, I am confident that it will be one that does not induce stress in your fingers, wrist, arm, or head.

[rockies]

I think most players use varying grips or tension as they play different genres and even change through a tune , at least I do. As for John Reischman most can not emulate him to play with the back edge of the pick. John has what I call a double-jointed thumb that bends completely backward at the joint. I would have to break my thumb to emulate him or put the mandolin at a very unusual angle.
Dave

[bratsche]

The picking motion of course originates in the forearm and wrist, but the fingers themselves are the last part of the technical chain and in such techniques as circular picking, which I do on both guitar and mandolin, uses the finger and thumb a great deal.

Just to be sure, though, the motion of the thumb and 1st finger I'm referring to is quite small, focused and can be powerful, so it's not the same thing as the bad habit you mention.

David, in what circumstances do you find 'circular picking' advantageous, and what does it achieve for you? I've not tried to learn that technique (yet). I assume it is in a clockwise pattern, yes?

bratsche

[JonZ]

Our bodies are all different...

Mine isn't!

[JonZ]

So I do say that it depends on what motion those fingers are doing and how much control one has.

Yeah, you see more finger/thumb action when people are cross picking and jumping strings, and much less on tremoloed double stops.

[DavidKOS]

Yeah, you see more finger/thumb action when people are cross picking and jumping strings, and much less on tremoloed double stops.

A tremolo double stop is a wide area to cover with a pick going that fast, I'm pretty sure I would use more wrist there.

David, in what circumstances do you find 'circular picking' advantageous, and what does it achieve for you? I've not tried to learn that technique (yet). I assume it is in a clockwise pattern, yes?

bratsche

I leaned it in context of jazz guitar, and what it does is allow the pick, which is at a slight angle to the strings, to travel in a small somewhat oval-ish shape rather than be perfectly parallel to the strings and have to move in a larger arc.

The motion is similar to when you use the fingers to cross pick and change strings, but very tiny in some respects.

" Other guitarists have developed a technique known as circle picking, where the thumb joint is bent on the downstroke, and straightened on the upstroke, causing the tip of the pick to move in a circular pattern, which can allow speed and fluidity. "

http://circlepicking.blogspot.com/

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum...?t-731942.html

I couldn't find a video I liked, the ones all were shredders and not always good ones.

Anyway I guess I applied to mandolin too.

[JeffD]

I personally think there is only one way to hold a mandolin pic, and that is the one that works for you.

I respectfully disagree.

[DavidKOS]

I respectfully disagree.

I guess that it depends on what "the one that works for you" is supposed to do.

I certainly make no claims to what a Bluegrass mandolin player "should" do, but I have a fair idea what other styles of mandolin like classical and Italian players need to do, and although there is no single way to hold a pick (or even which shape the pick should be) there are a few do's and don'ts!

So I see both sides - everyone is unique so there is no "one size fits all", but for certain techniques, certain picking approaches work better.

[JeffD]

everyone is unique so there is no "one size fits all", but for certain techniques, certain picking approaches work better.

So we tell people "do what you want but pull your pants up."

No, I do understand. I just think specific honest questions deserve answers with content.

[Chris W.]

This guy has a few ideas on how to hold a pick.

[August Watters]

I wasn't going to bring it up, but now that someone has posted this: in this video Thile says he comes down more on the "there's a right way to old a pick" camp. And then he proceeds to show you to do it how he does it.

Fair enough, but what's not said here is that there are other parts of the mando-universe where the straight-forefinger approach is the predominant way. And if you look in the historical literature, you'll find lots of methods that show the same. To me, I think there's a lot to be learned from investigating the different schools of thought in our extended mandolin community.

[DavidKOS]

Fair enough, but what's not said here is that there are other parts of the mando-universe where the straight-forefinger approach is the predominant way. And if you look in the historical literature, you'll find lots of methods that show the same. To me, I think there's a lot to be learned from investigating the different schools of thought in our extended mandolin community.

I think it is a good idea to look at the various mandolin tutors and see the range of acceptable pick holding methods. The classical methods show a slight range, but most look like this:





some show a straighter finger



and of course pick shape makes a difference too.