Bouzouki, cittern, octave mandolin

[jazzjune18]

howdy. I am trying to decipher the difference but running into some roadblocks. Graham McDonald's book is said to contain instructions on building an Irish bouzouki and cittern. What are the general scale lengths? Is one of those equivalent to an octave mando (scale length around 20 inches? Thanks for your insight, I am just asking before I purchase.

Markg

[Graham McDonald]

I suggest around 22" for an octave mandolin and 26" for a bouzouki, based on my own preferences and what works best for my instruments. At the same time other builders OMs are between 20-22" depending on what the player and/or builder thinks will work and bouzoukis are often just a standard guitar scale length in the 24-25" range. Citterns are really just a five course version of either of those and have been made with anything from a 20" scale up to 26" or even a bit longer. It comes down to how you want to tune them and what stringing you want to use.

There is a fundamental rule that for a given string length and tuning, there are a fairly narrow range of strings which will have sufficient tension to work for each pitch. For example, a 26" scale high e string needs a string around .010", while a 20" e string will need at least a .013". Once you get away from industry standard mandolin and guitar scale lengths it can all get a bit tricky to find just the right string combination.

Cheers

[Rob Zamites]

This is a can of worms, put mildly. The definition depends really on who you ask, what country you're in, and what historical period you're referring to (among other things). I tend to follow these guidelines:

http://www.robinbullock.com/article02.htm
http://www.ceolas.org/instruments/cittern.html

But then again, someone else may chime in and say that is all wrong

In my mind, 17"-22" is OM territory, 22" and greater is zouk territory. That said, I cite 10 string/5 course instruments as citterns, no matter the scale length, but then again, all the above is just my individual interpretation.

I have a 3 course 20.75" scale instrument that I call a zouk, but by my definition it's too short for that - but since it's not got 8 strings, I don't call it an OM either. The luthier that made it calls it a bouzouki, so that's what I call it, though more technically it's a trichordo or saz (http://www.paulhathway.com/saz), although mine is not any of those scale lengths!

See how weird the CBOM world can be?

[jazzjune18]

Rob. Thanks for muddying the waters! Jk. Thanks for the references. Graham, is using your book as a guide and just altering the scale length to 22 inch plausible? (Ie, keeping the same body size, etc). Btw I want to thank you for your flat top book. I used it to build my first scratch build and it turned out great.

Mark

[Graham McDonald]

The 22" scale I think is a good compromise between being able to use readily available strings and playability. It also means you can use a standard Martin scale 24.75" fretboard and just cut off the first 2 or 3 frets (can't remember if it is 2 or 3!) to get the right fretboard length. Body size and shape doesn't really matter, though that will have an effect on the overall tonal quality of the instrument.

Cheers

[Rob Grant]

I agree with Graham totally. A 22" scale is a better compromise for an OM.

I used a 23" scale on my last f style OM and I have experienced several minor difficulties (eg: Fretting "reach" and suitable string sets) that would have been eliminated if I had just gone for a shorter S.L.. Oh well, how about I just call just me "mongrel" an f style zook??!!<G>