Need help in identifying my old mandolin, please!

[Skeetshooter]

Hello fellow mandolinians!

I need your expertise in identifying my mandolin...perhaps a make, model and date range?

Thanks in advance for your assistance!

[vic-victor]

Hard to say. It reminds many things at once. First it is certainly inspired by 1920's Martin flatback, but it is unlikely to be Martin, as neck heel is of different type (unless Martin changed it later on). The plate style machine heads were popular from late 19 century until mid 1920's on bowlbacks in both Italy and USA. If I'd only see the back of this instrument, I'd say Japan, but I have not seen a single Japanese one with plate tuners. My informative guess would be US made mandolin from the first part of 20 century. Can't do any better. Perhaps other members will fill you in with more details.

[pheffernan]

I need your expertise in identifying my mandolin...perhaps a make, model and date range?

It looks to me like a Harmony flatback from the 1920's.

[vic-victor]

There you go. Looks like that's it.

[Skeetshooter]

I had someone think it was a Sammo - but didn't Harmony make those for them as well?

[allenhopkins]

Does have some similarities to a Sammo, built by Samuel Osborne Co.

Here's some info from Jake Wildwood on Sammo.

[tkdboyd]

It is a good looking instrument. How does it sound/play?

[MikeEdgerton]

Does have some similarities to a Sammo, built by Samuel Osborne Co.

Here's some info from Jake Wildwood on Sammo.

I'm not sure Osborne built anything, I think they distributed instruments with their brand name on it built by the Chicago based builders.

There's a chance this was built by Regal.

[Skeetshooter]

Thanks. It looks remarkably close to that Sammo in the link allenhopkins. Mine has rosewood back and sides and they cover the heel. Same colored marquetry. Has a pretty good sound, although not to the level of a Gibson or Weber. Action needs a little setup but overall pretty amazing condition for a 100 year old instrument. I really appreciate the info and interest guys!

[brunello97]

....There's a chance this was built by Regal.

Mike might be on to something. The nice detail where the back covers over the heel of the neck on this (and other Sammos) is the tantalizing curiosity. It doesn't show up on the run-of-the-mill Chicago jobber mandolins.

It does show up on the "Perfacktone Lute Mandolin" on page 68 of Bob Carlin's book on Regal Instruments. The page is a repro from a "Progressive Music Company" catalog page ca. 1928. Style 2923 is a ringer for the OP's. According to the catalog the 2923 had RW back and sides. (A nice combination with a spruce top, in my experience.)

Don't have a scanner handy or I'd post the image from Bob's book. (Could get to it tomorrow if Mike doesn't beat me to it.) This one has the King's Crown style tailpiece cover, which is unfortunately missing from SkSh's.

Mick

[morgan]

To bring this full circle... I am virtually certain I purchased the OP's mandolin on ebay for my daughter for a modest sum. It was listed soon after this thread was initiated. I found this thread while trying to research the mando after it arrived. It needed more than an action adjustment - a brace under the cant was broken - but I worked that out amicably with the seller and got to spend a little quality time with my luthier, which is always educational.

Based on Mick's last entry I searched for Perfacktone, which appears to have been a company that sold but did not build instruments. There were some references for Perfacktone being a common name for horns, an "ask the expert" site in which Jim Garber identified another Perfacktone (similar to but different from mine) as a likely Larson Brothers, a mando cafe news fetcher item for Elderly a few years back selling a very similar mando to mine. I also found a 1920s ad for Progressive Musical Instrument Co indicating that they carried Perfacktone banjos, guitars and mandolins. But, for the most part Perfacktone appears to have been lost to the din of musical history, or at least to Google's perception thereof.

Now that the mando has been fixed up it plays pretty easily and sounds quite good for an inexpensive instrument. It's well balanced, has decent volume, and has none of the harsh tinniness common to modern budget instruments. Scale length is a good bit less than 13 inches. My daughter has small hands so just as well for her.

Mick - I'd be curious to see that catalog listing if you could post it

Thanks for all the info on this little guy-
Cedwyn

[Jim Garber]

Here you go from my 1925 Progressive Musical Instrument Company (P'Mico) catalog. I believe PMico was a distributor.

[darrylicshon]

That mandolin on the bottom right was in another thread they where trying to figure out who made it
http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...lin-on-eBay-is

[morgan]

Thank you Jim. It certainly looks like the third from the left.

Many years ago I bought one of the reverse scroll Regals (the fourth from the left) cheap to bring on a long backpacking trip. It had the dual advantages of being very light and being a very lousy mandolin so I had no qualms about whatever happened to it. It eventually disintegrated and is now screwed to the side of a bookcase in my music room. The one I just bought it is a much better instrument.

Not sure if the fact that they were marketed with the reverse scroll Regals means that these were also Regals, even with the pronounced difference in quality?

[Jim Garber]

Not sure if the fact that they were marketed with the reverse scroll Regals means that these were also Regals, even with the pronounced difference in quality?

Not necessarily, tho possible. Probably Progressive/P'Mico contracted with multiple makers.

[MikeEdgerton]

That mandolin on the bottom right was in another thread they where trying to figure out who made it
http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...lin-on-eBay-is

There is no question as to who made that mandolin on the bottom right. That's a Regal Reverse Scroll.

[morgan]

To resuscitate this old thread about the origin of my rosewood flatback:

Intermountain Guitar and Banjo is selling a nearly identical mandolin as an unmarked Larson Brothers for $925:

http://www.guitarandbanjo.com/invent.../flat-mandolin

The peghead veneer is a different wood, and there are a few more dots on the fretboard, but its otherwise the same.

[MikeEdgerton]

Half of the nicer mandolins that Regal made are called unmarked Larsons. I don't give a whole lot of credence to the Larson experts du jour that have popped up in the last few years. Get a copy of the Regal book and look through the catalog pages listed. You might not find the exact same instrument but you'll find enough that are close. Carlin's Regal book was a real eye opener.

[bbcee]

I'm really pleased with mine, a recent purchase. The seller was calling it a "Washington", not sure why as there's no label inside.

I'm happy to think of it being a Regal. The fit & finish is terrific, it's it's a pleasure to play, and a great piece of American history. I've since changed out the tailpiece for a kidney-shaped one, not totally correct, but closer than this one.

[morgan]

Mike - Soon after the time of the original post, I found some photos of Larsens and similar-looking old no-names (probable Regals or Harmony?) and convinced myself that there was a difference in the shape of the neck join to the back of the instrument, and that mine was not a Larsen. I can't recall the specifics any more, but I believe that you are most likely correct.

I guess I found it interesting that Intermountain, whom I assume must be pretty expert in these matters, professed no uncertainty in their determination of origin. Like with expert witnesses and tobacco company scientists, one is wise to consider the dollar value of the expert opinion when evaluating its veracity.

Bbcee, yours is cosmetically different from mine - different marquetry patterns, the metal cover on the rear of the headstock looks different and perhaps not original, and that tailpiece (!) is almost identical to one on a very cheap guitar a guy once gave me, but the mando looks to be fundamentally the same. I agree with you, its a nicely made, attractive, good sounding mandolin. I just wish I could sell mine for $925 as a Larsen!

[MikeEdgerton]

I just wish I could sell mine for $925 as a Larsen!

Apparently you can.

I'm not sure they will get that much money for there's.

[NickR]

Back in the 1920s, Harmony made some very similar mandolins for parent company Sears, Roebuck which were sold by that mail order giant as Supertone branded instruments- the next model down from the hand-carved f hole Shutt influenced Viol. I reckon the original instrument at the top of this thread is from Harmony. Jake Wildwood tells us that Harmony never screwed in the tuner untis to the headstock under the cover plate, so that's a clue. Here is his article on one: https://jakewildwood.blogspot.com/20...-rosewood.html

[rcc56]

My guess would be Regal or Schmidt. I had a somewhat similar mandolin go through my hands last year, though mine was in mahogany. After much head scratching, I was leaning towards Schmidt-- the purfling looked more east coast than Chicago.

The purfling and back strip on yours does not remind me of Larson work, neither does the finish.

An unlabeled Larson mandolin would be difficult to authenticate, especially a plain model. Their mandolins did not have the rather unique heel cut that was used on their guitars; and other companies, including Regal, sometimes used inlaid soundhole and inlaid fingerboard bindings.

It is important to bear in mind that companies such Lyon & Healy and Regal were capable of producing instruments of high quality when they wished to take the time and effort to do so.

An ornate flatback went through the Franklin guitar show a couple of years ago, and there was some debate about it being a Larson product, but the back bracing was too square and heavy for me to think it likely to be Larson work. Larson instruments tend to be more lightly braced than other Chicago instruments and New York-New Jersey area instruments. Also, Larson finishes [if they survive in original condition] tend to be of very high quality, and very conscientiously done. Sometimes I think that their finishes are their most overlooked identifying characteristic-- they have a look that sets them apart from the best work of the other Chicago makers.

[Thesoundword]

Hey Jim!
Do you still have this catalog or ones from the early 30s? I'm a writer for the British mag The Strad and I'm trying to track down a picture of Andreas Schroetter, who worked for P'IMco from 1924-1940. Andreas is in the third page of this auction link:

https://www.onesourceauctions.com/au...-no_00448248B6

Thanks for considering!
Cliff