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Thread: snakhead a-1, angle on logo and tuners

  1. #1
    two t's and one hyphen fatt-dad's Avatar
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    Default snakhead a-1, angle on logo and tuners

    Mandolin Brothers shows a 1924 with horizontal, "The Gibson" and worm-over tuners.

    A 1925 (based on FON) is headed to my house and it has worm under tuners and the angled stencil, "The Gibson." Is this just an example of Gibson's inconsitency?

    I'm curious if going from "worm under" to "worm over" marks a time in production? Same for the horizontal versus angled, "The Gibson."

    f-d
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    Registered User pfox14's Avatar
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    Default Re: snakhead a-1, angle on logo and tuners

    Gibson definitely varied the angle of their headstock logo a lot during the 20s. I've seen very steep angles as well as straight across. That's just Gibson.
    Visit www.fox-guitars.com - cool Gibson & Epiphone history and more. Vintage replacement mandolin pickguards

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  4. #3
    Registered User Joe Spann's Avatar
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    Default Re: snakhead a-1, angle on logo and tuners

    Tuners are not the best way to date a pre-war Gibson instrument. Gibson often used whatever was at hand in order to get instruments out the door. Even if Gibson began using "worm-over" configuration in 1924, it doesn't mean that there wasn't a back-stock of "worn-under" tuners sitting around, or that the manufacturer had a blow-out sale on "worm-under" after they invented the "worm-over" tuner. There is also the possibility that tuners were changed out at a later date.

    There are simply too many uncertainties to try and use tuner specs as a dating criteria.

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    Formerly F5JOURNL Darryl Wolfe's Avatar
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    Default Re: snakhead a-1, angle on logo and tuners

    I can't give you much, but the stenciled logo appears in later '24 at an angle....at some point later it went to more or less straight across. The straight across ones tend to have the worm over tuners, while the earlier ones still utilized the worm under. Now, obviously the changes are not necessarily related to each other, but the strict worm over configuration seems to have happened in early '25 with some examples a bit earlier. As a generality, I would expect most any 81xxx or higher serial to have worm over with straight stencil
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    rock in rôle Paul Statman's Avatar
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    Default Re: snakhead a-1, angle on logo and tuners

    Did the worm-under to worm-over configuration change coincide with the (now standard) modern post spacing, or are they not related?

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    Default Re: snakhead a-1, angle on logo and tuners

    Quote Originally Posted by Darryl Wolfe View Post
    I can't give you much, but the stenciled logo appears in later '24 at an angle....at some point later it went to more or less straight across. The straight across ones tend to have the worm over tuners, while the earlier ones still utilized the worm under. Now, obviously the changes are not necessarily related to each other, but the strict worm over configuration seems to have happened in early '25 with some examples a bit earlier. As a generality, I would expect most any 81xxx or higher serial to have worm over with straight stencil
    Just to confuse matters my A1 S/H with a serial No. 76XXX has worm-over tuners and a slanted stencil.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by mandopixie View Post
    Did the worm-under to worm-over configuration change coincide with the (now standard) modern post spacing, or are they not related?
    I think this was the case.

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    Registered User Hendrik Ahrend's Avatar
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    Default Re: snakhead a-1, angle on logo and tuners

    Quote Originally Posted by mandopixie View Post
    Did the worm-under to worm-over configuration change coincide with the (now standard) modern post spacing, or are they not related?
    Not related; modern spacing appeared already in 1923 (on F5s). Except for one example (again F5), worm over stated in late 1928, if I‘m not mistaken, early, though, on F4s. Not sure about A-models. Without checking the MA, I remember that one finds the worm-over pattern on As in 1925 (or a bit earlier), the change to modern spacing must have been earlier.

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    rock in rôle Paul Statman's Avatar
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    Unhappy Re: snakhead a-1, angle on logo and tuners

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Eagle View Post
    Not related; modern spacing appeared already in 1923 (on F5s). Except for one example (again F5), worm over stated in late 1928, if I‘m not mistaken, early, though, on F4s. Not sure about A-models. Without checking the MA, I remember that one finds the worm-over pattern on As in 1925 (or a bit earlier), the change to modern spacing must have been earlier.
    No definitive parameters, then. That's some muddy water I've just waded into..

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    Default Re: snakhead a-1, angle on logo and tuners

    The worm-over tuners on the S/H I mention in post 6 have modern spacing.

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  13. #10

    Default Re: snakhead a-1, angle on logo and tuners

    I have a '23(I think)A-1 snakehead;FON 8154 ;SN:79778.

    It got new tuners when Don MacRostie installed a radiused/bound fretboard on it.

    Hoping a kind sould will be able to tell me if it is an A-1 or just an A?

    Stencil "The Gibson" looks fairly straight across;very slightly angled.Click image for larger version. 

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    Fatt,can you show a pic of the '25 when you get it? Please.
    Love the narrow neck on mine.

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    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: snakhead a-1, angle on logo and tuners

    Given the modifications, radiused FB with binding, it isn’t what it started out so, what difference does it make?
    Not being a smarty boots but, really, it has been modified with tuners, and a bound fingerboard so, “the old grey mare just ain’t what she used to be.”
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

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    rock in rôle Paul Statman's Avatar
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    Question Re: snakhead a-1, angle on logo and tuners

    Quote Originally Posted by V70416 View Post
    I have a '23(I think)A-1 snakehead;FON 8154 ;SN:79778.

    It got new tuners when Don MacRostie installed a radiused/bound fretboard on it.
    If those are the factory post holes, it looks 'right' with those Schaller modern tuners. Hard to say for sure from the photo, but if that is the case, I would doubt its dating to 1923.

  17. #13

    Default Re: snakhead a-1, angle on logo and tuners

    Timbofood,smarty boots,makes no difference to me what model designation;just thought I'd ask ;but,makes a big difference in how it plays.

    mandopixie,at the risk of going off-topic I will try to send better pics. The FON and serial should be able to date it,right?
    Last edited by V70416; Aug-15-2018 at 10:47am.

  18. #14

    Default Re: snakhead a-1, angle on logo and tuners

    I don't like the pearloid tuner buttons but do enjoy the general playability of it since the modifications.Click image for larger version. 

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    Not sure if holes were redrilled for new tuners. New nut/bridge too. I did save all the old parts. The original fretboard is fastened to a plank of hardwood.

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    Default Re: snakhead a-1, angle on logo and tuners

    Mine also has Schallers - they wre a straight drop-in (which, to me, suggests that I have the modern spacing) - maybe it doesn't look original but at least I can get it in tune and it stays in tune. Going back to the originals would be an easy swap.

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  22. #16
    Registered User Hendrik Ahrend's Avatar
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    Default Re: snakhead a-1, angle on logo and tuners

    Quote Originally Posted by V70416 View Post
    I have a '23(I think)A-1 snakehead;FON 8154 ;SN:79778.
    I hate to say it, but - according to Joe Spann's book - your mandolin was made in 1925 and sold in '26.

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  24. #17
    rock in rôle Paul Statman's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Re: snakhead a-1, angle on logo and tuners

    Quote Originally Posted by V70416 View Post
    I don't like the pearloid tuner buttons but do enjoy the general playability of it since the modifications.Click image for larger version. 

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    Not sure if holes were redrilled for new tuners. New nut/bridge too. I did save all the old parts. The original fretboard is fastened to a plank of hardwood.
    Worm over from the factory, so replacements dropped in. Looks good to me, and if you like how it plays, that's huge!

  25. #18
    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: snakhead a-1, angle on logo and tuners

    Now that I see some images of the corpus, I’d bet “A-1” I could be wrong but, now it’s the “new and improved” A-?
    Just poking a little fun!
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

  26. #19

    Default Re: snakhead a-1, angle on logo and tuners

    Timbo,the label on mine,after almost a century,is hard to decipher. Also,I stupidly used an air compressor to blow out
    crud and almost completely detached the label.

    I'm ok with it being an A-. It was unplayable before Don took pity and spiffed it up. I like bound fretboards;he asked
    if I wanted it bound.
    Of course!

    What hurts is finding out the poor thing was birthed after Lloyd left the building. It was sold as a 1923 Gibson.

    I gotta get one of them Spann books. Soon.

  27. #20
    Registered User f5loar's Avatar
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    Default Re: snakhead a-1, angle on logo and tuners

    Quote Originally Posted by V70416 View Post
    Timbo,the label on mine,after almost a century,is hard to decipher. Also,I stupidly used an air compressor to blow out
    crud and almost completely detached the label.

    I'm ok with it being an A-. It was unplayable before Don took pity and spiffed it up. I like bound fretboards;he asked
    if I wanted it bound.
    Of course!

    What hurts is finding out the poor thing was birthed after Lloyd left the building. It was sold as a 1923 Gibson.

    I gotta get one of them Spann books. Soon.
    Never trust even the most famous of the vintage dealers on dating Gibsons. Heck I bought a Martin guitar from an extremely well known vintage dealer and they clearly were off a year. Spann's book is the "go to" guide to use for prewar Gibsons. Gruhn's best guide for post war Gibson, but you need to know how to read them. Gibson used the same serial numbers decades apart.

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