I assumed so, John, after seeing some of those labels. I used to prowl Ebay.fr every now and then but haven't in awhile. A healthy number of mandolins from the era if I remember correctly, including a few Italian shops that had their Parisian brokers similar to what we have seen in London.
The relationship between the two main De Meglio lines remains a mystery to me, as do the "Sistema de Meglio" and the numerous copies. Add to that the Ceccherini mandolins deploying some similar design details and the situation gets even muddier.
Slowly clues arrive now and then, though.
Mick
Ed. Sorry about the rotated picture. Not sure why that is happening. I'll try to amend it.
Ever tried, ever failed? No matter. Try again, fail again. Fail better.--Samuel Beckett
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Here's a new one on me, someone claiming to a "student of DeMeglio":
Thanks, John. I've seen some of these guys' work. Add the "Allievi" to the "Sistema De Meglio", undetermined "Clones" and the fact that "Giovanni De Meglio" was simultaneously producing mandolins with their own sequence of serial numbers.
No wonder they their label texts grew crankier.
Mick
Ever tried, ever failed? No matter. Try again, fail again. Fail better.--Samuel Beckett
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Thanks, Victor. DeMeglio apparently had a very wide distribution network.
Do you have any other photos of the mandolin? The No. 2 model De Meglios were their fancier work.
Mick
Ever tried, ever failed? No matter. Try again, fail again. Fail better.--Samuel Beckett
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Wow. Shipwreck.
Mick
Ever tried, ever failed? No matter. Try again, fail again. Fail better.--Samuel Beckett
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It's time for some more:
1905 No 3272 (non Cav)
1905 No 3212 (also non Cav)
Mick, do you still have the complete list in computer friendly form?
Thanks, John.
That last one might be 3211 or even 3277 - hard to tell - here's the label:
Interestingly it's the only non-Cav label I've seen with the "beware of fakes and forgeries" invocation at the end. If these were knock-off's then old Cav Giovanni must have been pretty annoyed indeed! BTW I now own this one, and so far can't tell the difference between this one and the Cav Giovanni ones....
Thanks, John, I'll add these to the log and send you the updated .xl file if that is something you can use.
These look like 1s to me. My German wife makes her 1s look like our 7s though a bit steeper.
She crosses her 7s (which I was also taught to do.) Can't recall if DeMeglio does, but I don't think so.
1905 was a big year for DeMeglio production.
Mick
Two more, both Cav. Giovani:
1904 no 15652
1900 no 9502
Thanks, John. I saw #9502 which looks to be in pretty good condition.
Are you sure about the 1904 date and 15652 SN?
15652 would put it in 1908, maybe '09.
If it were 1904 then it might be a 12652 for a SN.
Could you double check? If you've got a photo or link to the label could you post it?
Thanks!
Mick
Ever tried, ever failed? No matter. Try again, fail again. Fail better.--Samuel Beckett
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Interestingly enough, DeMeglio SN 15623 dated 1909 just turned up, which would place 15652 in 1909 as well, if that is indeed a 5 in the SN, John.
Mick
Ever tried, ever failed? No matter. Try again, fail again. Fail better.--Samuel Beckett
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Good catch, it is indeed 1909, it was mis-listed.
Looks to have been suspiciously messed about with too
Muy cool, Victor! Where did you turn this up? I have never seen this label before.
The oldest De Meglio I have in my files is from 1893, SN 1546--so there are a lot predating it. The '93 label has the Vico Lungo Gelso address but one would suppose this is from an earlier date and address.
Any other images or information on this?
Thanks!
Mick
Ever tried, ever failed? No matter. Try again, fail again. Fail better.--Samuel Beckett
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Well, I don't mind being tricked for this.... I knew De Meglio was involved with piano from the other labels, but I figured he might have just been a dealer / deposito because I hadn't seen other info. This is really great.
One of our friend Jim's favorite East Coast mandolin maker, Luigi Ricca, was also in the piano business close to the same period--in the '90s into the '00s, I think.
Any idea when the piano was from?
Mick
Ever tried, ever failed? No matter. Try again, fail again. Fail better.--Samuel Beckett
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De Meglio actually made pianos and there are still a few in Italy. Most old pianos don't hold much value when growing old and often being simply disposed of. I can't remember exactly where I read that pianos were actually the main business for De Meglio family and mandolins were just a sideline, at least for a while. I am not sure about the age of this particular instrument. Probably turn of the century. More pics:
Last edited by vic-victor; Apr-12-2016 at 6:48am.
Very cool! Thanks for posting that.
I suppose this is the site on Italian piano makers that Victor is sourcing: lists Carlo and brother Giovanni De Meglio making pianos in Napoli in the 1840's.
If I am reading this correctly (from the timeline in the right column,) Carlo De Meglio was the "founder" of the Casa De Meglio in 1800. What's confusing is that it lists "De Meglio Fratelli o Carlo e Giovanni" operating from 1832 on. Other information lists Giovanni as the son of Carlo. Who were the Fratelli De Meglio at this point? Did Carlo primo have a son Carlo as well who worked with Giovanni? It looks like Giovanni carried on the piano business with his sons.
(I'm supposing that this is the Cav. Giovanni whose sons Vicenzo and Giovanni carried on the mandolin arm of the business.)
Also lists a Leopoldo De Meglio as a son of Giovanni the piano maker. He hasn't shown up in the mandolin business yet, but I ought to look a bit closer at all those signatures. This site lists Leopoldo and Giovanni as successors of Carlo.
The S Sebastian location doesn't show up in the piano website list of De Meglio addresses. I need to poke around on Google earth and check those spots out. 53 Vico Lungo Gelso is a pretty tight spot for moving pianos around. Maybe by then just the mandolin part of the business was going on there.
Cool stuff.
Mick
Last edited by brunello97; Apr-12-2016 at 10:02am.
Ever tried, ever failed? No matter. Try again, fail again. Fail better.--Samuel Beckett
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All very intresting. Family search site lists many De Meglios in Napoli. Let's try to sort them out.
There is Carlo, supposedly the founder of the business and his wife Teresa Muti. Their male children: Giuseppe b. 1808, Giovanni b. 1811, Leopoldo b. 1816, Lorenzo b. 1823, Vincenzo b. 1825.
I guess since Giovanni became Cav. his name as such was used on all the labels even if he was not around already at the time, the same way as Raffaele Calace's used until now.
Then we have Giovanni De Meglio born 1832, a son of Vincenzo, a clearly different from Carlo's son that could be that no Cav. competitor.
Or perhaps there was Giovanni, son of Vincenzo, Carlo's son who was that no Cav. I could not find the trace of such though.
Plus thre were another 3 or 4 Giovannis also sons of Vincenzos from Barano D'Ischia which is also Napoli, but looks like a diffrent clan of De Meglios which nevertheless could be related.
I gave up at that point as everyone seemed to have at least 4 or 5 children and it all became too complicated to follow
Thanks, Victor. It sounds like from your lineage that it probably was Giovanni and Leopoldo who were the piano-making "Fratelli De Meglio" referred to on the pianoforte site. The Vincenzo born in 1825 (he, the composer) apparently passed in 1883.
The Leopoldo winning praise for his pianos mid-19th then seems to be the son of Carlo, born in 1816.
An alternative (and mind numbing) version has Carlo and (another Giovanni) as the "Fratelli De Meglio" from the pianoforte site and mid century Leopoldo as this Giovanni's figlio, rather than being Carlo's grandson. Yikes.
By 1900 we have another Vincenzo De Meglio signing mandolins labeled "Cav. Giovanni e Figlio" and a Giovanni, successor of Vincenzo signing almost identical mandolins under his own name made at a different address. Both still reference the piano making / selling business.
Why and how two different lines of the family were producing mandolins with the same sistema is another shamus case in its own right.
The Giovanni born in 1832 would have been 70 years old when he was signing his mandolin labels. I assumed he was Carlo's grandson, son of Vincenzo the Composer, but your lack of evidence for that has me looking for un meglio De Meglio connection.
That is all based on the assumption that these were real people signing their names on the mandolin labels and not some "Morgan Monroe" or "The Loar" or "Kentucky Sandwich" or "Fratelli Vinaccia" type signatures.
Vincenzo 1825 De M wrote some pieces for piano and violin. Nice to contemplate someone playing them on the family's piano and mandolin.
Mick
Ever tried, ever failed? No matter. Try again, fail again. Fail better.--Samuel Beckett
______________________
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'06 Bialetti expresso maker
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Two more, one Mick will be familiar with and one not:
1895. Model 1 (A), No 3659
1902. Model 1 (A), No 11933
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