Mandocello: Where to start?

[goatmilk]

I am very interested in starting on the mandocello. My question is, what should my first mandocello be? My budget is around $2k for the 'cello. I am interested in K5 style and F-Style mandocellos but would be open to other suggestions.

Also, some music recommendations for what to start on or what books to start with would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance

[Tom Coletti]

Welcome to the Cafe! Unfortunately, mandocellos are about as pricey as the mandolin family instruments come, so $2K likely will not get you an F-style. The best place to start looking is the Mandolin Store's 'cello page, and it looks like the only new mandocello in that price range is an Eastman MDC-805 (guitar body, though unfortunately it is out of stock at the moment); a Weber Gallatin A (the next step up) will cost about another $1K.

There aren't any mandocellos in the classifieds right now, but going used would probably be your best bet, as we're kind of in a low point of availability compared to a few months ago...


--Tom

[allenhopkins]

You can buy a Weber Tamarack for $2K.

[ptritz]

You won't get an F-style but there are some builders around who could probably build you a mandocello in your price range. Walt Kuhlman at Gypsy's Music or Nick Apollonio are a couple that come to mind that would be worth talking to.

[Kieran]

<Removed by Moderator. This belongs in a Personal Message or in the Classifieds>

[Jim Garber]

I think the Eastman MCs go for about $2K also. One sold but listed here. NFI.

[SincereCorgi]

Have you tried one? Do you play guitar? I'd suggest trying one for, like, ten minutes, and then see if it still seems like something you want to spend $2000 on. They are very, very niche instruments.

[IanBowden]

My original entry into the mando family of instruments was a search into a mandocello. I'd surmised I could use some of the knowledge I'd gained a few decades before in playing cello in elementary school and combine it with over thirty years of guitar playing. What I found was that they're not only very expensive, but they're also next to impossible to play cleanly. You're working with eight tightly-pulled strings and the lower ones are about double the thickness of the low E guitar string. The scale length is at least as long as a typical guitar and you're doing a lot more stretching on chords because of the extra tonal difference between the adjacent strings (an added full tone). As an accompaniment instrument, they can be nice, but it's tough to make one sound good solo.

[goatmilk]

My original entry into the mando family of instruments was a search into a mandocello. I'd surmised I could use some of the knowledge I'd gained a few decades before in playing cello in elementary school and combine it with over thirty years of guitar playing. What I found was that they're not only very expensive, but they're also next to impossible to play cleanly. You're working with eight tightly-pulled strings and the lower ones are about double the thickness of the low E guitar string. The scale length is at least as long as a typical guitar and you're doing a lot more stretching on chords because of the extra tonal difference between the adjacent strings (an added full tone). As an accompaniment instrument, they can be nice, but it's tough to make one sound good solo.

Do you think I should go with a mando instead first and work my way up the mando ladder?

[allenhopkins]

Do you think I should go with a mando instead first and work my way up the mando ladder?

Answer to this question depends on what you want to do with it. It's like asking if one should take up the cello, or start on violin. They're different enough instruments, with different repertoire, role, technique et. al., that neither is truly a stepping stone to the other.

If you're most interested in melody playing, bluegrass/old-time/Celtic music, and the like, mandolin's more suitable. If you're interested in ensemble work, vocal accompaniment, harmony or chordal approaches, the mandocello can work very well in those areas.

Any member of the mandolin family will give you experience in playing in "fifths" tuning. The mandolin's undoubtedly a bit easier to get around on, than the mandocello. And you can get a mandolin of equivalent quality for a bit less money. But the main consideration, is where you want your music to go.

There are "interim" steps, such as mandola and octave mandolin, that you could also consider.

[Tom Coletti]

Do you think I should go with a mando instead first and work my way up the mando ladder?

There are two other options that you could consider:

1. If you want to practice with the same tuning as a mandocello (CGDA), then a mandola would be a good starter.

2. If you don't care about tuning, but want an instrument with a register of similar depth, then an octave mandolin would be a good starter.

--Tom

[Greg Stec]

My original entry into the mando family of instruments was a search into a mandocello. I'd surmised I could use some of the knowledge I'd gained a few decades before in playing cello in elementary school and combine it with over thirty years of guitar playing. What I found was that they're not only very expensive, but they're also next to impossible to play cleanly. You're working with eight tightly-pulled strings and the lower ones are about double the thickness of the low E guitar string. The scale length is at least as long as a typical guitar and you're doing a lot more stretching on chords because of the extra tonal difference between the adjacent strings (an added full tone). As an accompaniment instrument, they can be nice, but it's tough to make one sound good solo.

I tell people that playing a mandocello is like playing a double-strung bass guitar, 'cept the m'cello is tuned in 5ths.
I've been playing mandocello since @ 1990 and I played bass guitar in an R&B band in the late 1960's, so I think I can speak with some experience.

[goatmilk]

To answer the some questions, I want to take up a mando family instrument because of the strumming rather than the bowing of violin-family instruments and the way they are held, but I still want to play more classically themed music which is why I asked about the mandocello. I've been guitar and bass clarinet for a number of years so I am familiar with finger stretching. Which would be the best choice for my more classical needs?

[Bernie Daniel]

Welcome to the Cafe! Unfortunately, mandocellos are about as pricey as the mandolin family instruments come, so $2K likely will not get you an F-style. The best place to start looking is the Mandolin Store's 'cello page, and it looks like the only new mandocello in that price range is an Eastman MDC-805 (guitar body, though unfortunately it is out of stock at the moment); a Weber Gallatin A (the next step up) will cost about another $1K.

There aren't any mandocellos in the classifieds right now, but going used would probably be your best bet, as we're kind of in a low point of availability compared to a few months ago...


--Tom

He says he wants a K-5 style -- that is not a scroll model!

[Tom Coletti]

He says he wants a K-5 style -- that is not a scroll model!

K-5 or F, he said. I guess that the Eastman would qualify as a K-5 style (both are archtop, f-hole, guitar-bodied, etc.).

--Tom

[catmandu2]

To answer the some questions, I want to take up a mando family instrument because of the strumming rather than the bowing of violin-family instruments and the way they are held, but I still want to play more classically themed music which is why I asked about the mandocello. I've been guitar and bass clarinet for a number of years so I am familiar with finger stretching. Which would be the best choice for my more classical needs?

This gives us a little more to go on, but would be most helpful to have a better idea of your conception--providing of course that you have it. It's not at all uncommon to be as ambiguous about what you desire--as well as what your plan might be. So I'm empathetic.

What do you mean by "classical" or "classically-themed"? Is there some music that you play or have played on either gtr or bcl that you would like to play on a mando-family instrument? If not, is there a particular selection, or piece of music you can identify that you would like to play?

I started on mandolin, but quickly went to mandola, octave, and citterns to assuage my conception for these. I too am primarily interested in--what you might call--"classical" music: played a lot of Bach on guitar--the cello suites actually--and a bunch of Dowland and other baroque and renaissance stuff on guitar, eventually got into arco playing on contrabass to more faithfully fulfill this urge for the lower registers (I also play bcl)...but now oud (Arabic) has provided me the means to explore this music with strings. So, I'm aware of the aesthetic choice that ensues when given these options. If the instrument--or the concept--speaks to you, you may need to execute it fully in order to determine whether it is, indeed, the correct choice. Good luck

[Phil Vinyard]

I'm a former 'cellist turned mandolin player. Your 'cello skills will transfer fine to a regular mandolin. Base fingering just switches from 0-1-3-4 to 0-1-2-3.

There is a LOT more literature available for mandolin. Easy to find transcribed versions of the Bach 'cello suites, plus there's all the Bach unaccompanied violin literature. And other classical style pieces are readily available. I'm currently quite enamored with Victor Kioulaphides pieces http://www.paperclipdesign.com/vk/. And I've discovered John Goodin's excellent tunes at http://www.contratopia.com/SMT.htm. Then start to plunder http://imslp.org/ and http://www.mutopiaproject.org/index.html .

And don't think Bluegrass/Old Time literature is a piece of cake. Lots of technical skill needed to play those well.

I just bought a mandocello (from the Cafe Classifieds) and love the thing but am struggling to come up with literature. I plundered the internet the other night looking for 'cello music that I could play, and so much of it really required a bow to pull off. Or wasn't terribly interesting. I think I will wind up playing it more in ensembles where a 'cello/bass part is needed.

So...get a regular mandolin. You'll do fine, and can acquire other instruments later.

[Mandobart]

I started mandolin a few years back and quickly became addicted to all mando family instruments. I now also play mandola, octave mandolin and mandocello. The Eastman is the least-expensive production shop mandocello (comparing it to Ovation, Santa Cruz and Weber). There are other builders (Wishnevsky, Joe Mendel and others as well). I have the Eastman MDC-805 and really love it. My experiences are:

1. The mandocello is great as a lead or accompaniment instrument. It is basically in the guitar range musically.
2. For a real cool sound use octave vs unison paired strings.
3. My favorite all around instrument to play is an octave mandolin with octave paired strings. There are more OM's out there at lower prices than there are mandocellos.

[tmsweeney]

Ditto what Mandobart said, I find myself going through phases, I'll play nothing but mandocello (ovation for now) then I'll play mandola and or mandolin. My octave(weber) is probably the favorite and gets played the most. Right now I have been stuck on the mandocello, but I'm sure I'll be back to something else soon enough. As for where to start, Mike Marshall is a good place, but I don't think he has any official mandocello instruction material out there. Nancy Blake, Peter Ostroushko, Andy Statman, Joe Weed (with Neil Hellaman) are all occasional mandocello players. John Imholz with the Modern Mandolin Quartet comes to mind, even then finding mandocello music can be difficult. Rudy Cipolla was a mandocello player I believe.

[Bernie Daniel]

Ditto what Mandobart said, I find myself going through phases, I'll play nothing but mandocello (ovation for now) then I'll play mandola and or mandolin. My octave(weber) is probably the favorite and gets played the most. Right now I have been stuck on the mandocello, but I'm sure I'll be back to something else soon enough. As for where to start, Mike Marshall is a good place, but I don't think he has any official mandocello instruction material out there. Nancy Blake, Peter Ostroushko, Andy Statman, Joe Weed (with Neil Hellaman) are all occasional mandocello players. John Imholz with the Modern Mandolin Quartet comes to mind, even then finding mandocello music can be difficult. Rudy Cipolla was a mandocello player I believe.

FYI. I once set a query to the Bluegrass college or whatever the school is the Mike has started and asked what they would do if someone requested mandocello lessons. The answer was "Mike says mandocellos are welcome". So there is a possibility.

Also yes on the phases thing. One good part about spending a few weeks on the mandocello is that by comparison everything else -- even octave mandolins -- are like child's play!

[Greg Stec]

To answer the some questions, I want to take up a mando family instrument because of the strumming rather than the bowing of violin-family instruments and the way they are held, but I still want to play more classically themed music which is why I asked about the mandocello. I've been guitar and bass clarinet for a number of years so I am familiar with finger stretching. Which would be the best choice for my more classical needs?

Flute scores translate well for mandolin and mandolin family if you're willing to re-score a piece for that instrument. I play mandocello mostly, so I've re-scored, and sometimes re-finger a piece. I've had much success with music from Flutetunes, http://www.flutetunes.com/ . You get a PDF of the score AND audio of the piece. TONS of free stuff to work on. Good luck.

[Bernie Daniel]

Flute scores translate well for mandolin and mandolin family if you're willing to re-score a piece for that instrument. I play mandocello mostly, so I've re-scored, and sometimes re-finger a piece. I've had much success with music from Flutetunes, http://www.flutetunes.com/ . You get a PDF of the score AND audio of the piece. TONS of free stuff to work on. Good luck.

Just curious but what is it about flute music that makes it particularly adaptable for mandolins? There was another comment a few days ago where a member mentioned he had transposed flute music mandolin. I assume maybe the range of the mandolin and flute are similar?

I use tablature a lot. If you have tab in a .tef file you can easily convert it from mandolin/octave to mandola/mandocello with TablEdit As well the program will also convert tab to standard notation, or convert midi files and abc filea to tablature or standard notation as well -- then you can use the program to transpose the piece to a different key or whatever.

There is also a program -- I forget the name -- that will convert a .pdf file of tune in standard notation to tablature (instrument specific) but it does not do a good job on pieces with a lot of grace notes like bag pipe tunes.

[ombudsman]

Mandobart, you mentioned exactly what I have been thinking of - something in a long-ish scale in octaves rather than unison. I'd like to get into something like that, ideally in CGDA tuning, as I have started dabbling on tenor banjo and think I could take on this tuning.

If there are any particularly suited or not suited instruments for octave stringing purposes, or other pieces of information that come to mind, I'd love to hear more about your experiences. I'd like to go vintage if I could find something suitable, but only if I would be able to reduce rather than increase the stress on the instrument with my non standard stringing.

Cheers

[Bernie Daniel]

Mandobart, you mentioned exactly what I have been thinking of - something in a long-ish scale in octaves rather than unison. I'd like to get into something like that, ideally in CGDA tuning, as I have started dabbling on tenor banjo and think I could take on this tuning.

If there are any particularly suited or not suited instruments for octave stringing purposes, or other pieces of information that come to mind, I'd love to hear more about your experiences. I'd like to go vintage if I could find something suitable, but only if I would be able to reduce rather than increase the stress on the instrument with my non standard stringing.

Cheers

You might want to consider a mandola....

[ombudsman]

You might want to consider a mandola....

I'd certainly be open to trying one, but all my experience is with much longer scale instruments. I think with this tuning I can deal with about 23" but I'm not sure if I would be very effective on anything smaller. It might take some time with one to determine that, which isn't something I will likely be able to arrange without actually buying one, and I'm trying to avoid buying something cheap that doesn't hold it's value and then quickly upgrading if it works.

Also I was thinking I couldn't do octave stringing on all the courses of a mandola, nor an octave mandolin unless it was tuned down so that the lower note in each course was the same as a mandocello in which case it might get floppy. But a longer scale octave mandolin may yet be an option after some string/bridge/nut experimentation.