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It's been two years since Weber redesigned their Yellowstone (and up) models with dovetail neck joints and the deflection testing. Has anyone noticed a general difference in tone? More open? More bass? More sustain? More consistent from one to another? Setup more or less affected by atmospheric conditions? Are the new ones a step up from the older ones or just different?
Weather and schedule permitting, I plan to play some new ones next week. I've never played pre-2018 ones.
I have the same questions! Watching this thread....
When you have one in your hands, what relevance does a mandolin from the past have? I know, we like to obsess, but the only thing relevant is what you are holding. It’s like the recent Taylor guitar bracing change marketed as a tonal breakthrough. Well, seems like about half agree and half don’t. LOL
Yep, marketing. Burger King introducing the "Impossible" burger creating a buzz, rather than saying "veggie" burger which would alienate meat eaters.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Br1ck
I tried one, yep, it's OK, nothing amazing, IMHO........BUT -- by creating a buzz they got me to TRY it! (of course, a smaller investment than a new Taylor.....)
If I play a new Yellowstone, say to myself, "Oh yeah! This is it," get a good deal on that exact one using my Eastman as a trade-in, then all else regarding other mandolins is irrelevant. But other scenarios are just as likely.
For instance, if I like the Yellowstone I play, but don't like the amount offered for my trade-in and people here say there's no noticeable improvement post 2018, then I'll probably walk away, look for a good used one to save some cash, and sell the Eastman.
If I like the new Yellowstone, don't like the deal, and people say there is a noticeable improvement or at least a noticeable change in post 2018 Yellowstones, then I might bite the bullet and take the deal anyway. Or I might walk away and buy from a site sponsor if the new mandolins are consistent tone wise. And then I'd sell the Eastman.
Or if the new ones are consistent tone wise, and I like the one I play but want to add some customization like a speed neck, scooped extension, different binding, etc. I might be inclined to order a custom one.
There's a lot of possibilities or hypotheticals where having new updated information could help. The more information I have walking into a potential scenario/deal the better. That's my perspective.
You’re almost certain to do better if you buy used (rather than new) and sell your Eastman (rather than trade).Quote:
Originally Posted by archerscreek
I once was at The Mandolin Store and played two F 9s. One was a new Harvey era, the other was pre Harvey. They were both good. Had I ordered the older mandolin, I would probably have been happy. But side by side, I’d have coughed up the extra dough for the new one. In fact I can’t think of a single instrument I’ve bought where I paid less for the lessor instrument. I either buy the better one, or more likely walk away for lack of funds.
General consensus can be a guide, but take a very consistent brand like Collings. All are very good, but some have stood out as better. It’s the nature of wood. But the more realistic purchase strategy is to play everything you can get your hands on and realize when that special one comes along, and when it does, pay the price.
There are two types of people in this world: those who divide people into two types and those who don't. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Br1ck
I agree with you that more information is always welcome except when people's opinions are concerned. I would only go with your own judgement.Quote:
Originally Posted by archerscreek
These days I read restaurant reviews and some say, "the absolute best, finest food and service and the ambiance is to die for" and then the next review will say,"Service was abysmal, food overcooked, there was a smell of rotting possum meat coming from the kitchen."
If you love your current Yellowstone, stick with it, unless, of course, you play a brand new one and it blows your socks off. OTOH you could also buy new socks. I love the socks I found recently at LL Bean. They are much improved from the same ones they sold years ago so I traded in all my old oscks for one pair of new ones and never looked back. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by archerscreek
I've had more than one instrument which had features reducing susceptibility to humidity changes. It's hard to know how susceptible a particular model is to weather changes just from holding it in your hands, at least in my experience, so knowing about it over time is helpful. Why? Do you know of another, more relevant way to judge such factors without that data from the past?Quote:
Originally Posted by Br1ck
Not exactly. They were just starting to test this two years ago and then were gathering feedback from that point forward, but the roll-out was going to be quite gradual was my understanding. At the January 2018 NAMM they had only a few models to show with the changes and they were moving forward from there. I was in the factory a few weeks before that NAMM show and they were just tooling up and doing tests then. I'm not privy to where they are at with much of this but I'd say the timing might be more like a year. It's easy enough to get something from them to confirm.Quote:
Originally Posted by archerscreek
In my humble opinion, instrument “sound” (tone, quality, volume) is simply too complex and subject to too many different factors to be able to pin down a difference onto one thing, like a neck joint. Every piece of wood is an individual. Every instrument made by human hands has a gazillion different tiny differences. So I would really doubt that anyone could pass a fair double blind test and be able to consistently tell a dovetail joint from any other simply by sound. The function of a good neck joint is maximum coupling of the two units via wood contact. As long as that goal is achieved, the method is not very relevant. The old Weber joint is a straight glued mortise and tenon with two reinforcing bolts. They used to feed into threaded inserts. The newer version threads into barrel nuts inserted from the sides. The dovetail is self locking and requires no bolts. Those have a potential for excellent contact if properly executed. Both joints are just fine and do the job. I would challenge anyone who boasts that they can hear an audible difference between the two to a fair unbiased scientifically sound double blind test to back up their assertion. I’m not saying it’s impossible, just that I am extremely dubious.
They just sent out an email regarding these new models.
There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Garber
Sorry, Geek humor.
We must also focus on subjectivity and the limitations of auditory memory. Probably one of the most successful instrument redesigns in recent memory was the 2012 Martin D 18. I don't like them. I don't like the neck, I don't like the more resonant lusher tone. I was in a store playing a very dry 66 D 18 and really digging it when a guy comes over and calls it nasally sounding. He owned a D 28 Marquis. Different strokes. I was playing a mandolin recently thinking it was not too loud, a guy comments on how loud it was. A manufacturer makes changes based on whoever has the final say, and what they think can sell. Martin sold a bunch of D 18s. Not to me, but the big picture was very good for them. I've long since tried, and I say tried, to discount any and every sales buzzword used, not because of any thought of being misled, but because of my doubt I could correlate any such word to sound. My evolved buying method is now if I can put an instrument down in less than an hour, it's not something I would buy. This is a very rare occurrence. It would be less rare if I didn't break my rule of not playing something in a price range I don't play in. I could have easily played that Ellis for an hour, but quickly put it down. I saw my daughter do the same thing with a cello once. She picked it up because it was old looking, played about ten seconds and put it back. Turned out it was a $65,000 instrument. It wasn't the maker, the color, or the age, it was the whole of what it was that made it special.
Now after all that, I took the word of a respected luthier, and bought a D 35 guitar site unseen, and am very happy. When someone like Bryan Kimsey says it's the best D 35 he'd ever played, one might be wise to take a leap of faith. But only if you agree with his preference for sound.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton
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I own a 2017 #3 of 5 20th ana. Yellowstone. I bought it Sept. 2019 new from Down Home Guitars. It sounds great and the sound is getting better and better. I can't imagine a better sounding instrument though I haven't been able to play a 2018 or newer Yellowstone. Mine is a custom Yellowstone so I'm sure that makes of highest quality and sound.
"...love the one you're with."
52 4f 46 4c 21Quote:
Originally Posted by coldbeergocubs
10 Do 20
20 Do 10
What? You don't use Fortran 4? :grin:
I figure instruments are like women - some folks like blonds and other prefer brunettes....Or whatever.....
And while the opinions of many don't count much, I have found that there are a lot of knowledgeable people here that I have come to trust. So I would like the opinions of Cafe guys that have A/Bed the pre and post mod Webers. Have been out of the loop here for a while. What is "pre-Harvey" vs "post-Harvey" in relation to Weber mean? Thanks.
“Pre-Harvey” and “Post-Harvey” are Gibson terms referring to Dave Harvey who took over the mandolin division in 2008. “Pre-Hippies” and “Post-Hippies” are Weber terms referring to the buyout of Weber Mandolins by Two Old Hippies in 2012 (with Bruce Sr. exiting the business in 2016).Quote:
Originally Posted by red7flag