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Gibson A Oval Tuning Machines
I need a recommendation for a set of tuners that will fit my 1912 and 1913 Gibson A Oval mandolins. There is too much play in the original tuners on both. Is there a particular machine set someone has used successfully as a replacement? Thanks!
Attachment 178571
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Re: Gibson A Oval Tuning Machines
As far as I know, these are the only ones that are an easy drop in fit (and they work very well).
https://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and..._Mandolin.html
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Re: Gibson A Oval Tuning Machines
Quote:
Originally Posted by
liestman
Ditto. The post spacing for mandolin tuners was changed in the 1920's, and the Stew-mac Golden Age tuners that John linked you to are the only modern tuners that I know of that have the pre-1920's spacing. If you try to install any other tuners, you are likely to encounter problems.
I've installed the Stew-mac tuners on a couple of mandolins, and they indeed work well.
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Re: Gibson A Oval Tuning Machines
I just use any tuner that I like and cut the tuner plate into pieces so it fits. If you cut thru the screw holes the screws still hold them on and the spacing is no longer an issue. I don't mind altering something new and get whatever tuner I prefer the quality of. I have done this on my '22 and several old Gibsons.
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Re: Gibson A Oval Tuning Machines
Before you buy new tuners take a quick look through the late Paul Hostetter's tuner page.
If you can't revive them you can get the Stewmac Golden Age tuners listed above. Keep in mind that your old tuners still have value.
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Re: Gibson A Oval Tuning Machines
I have those tuners from Stewmac on my 1923 A-Jr. They work well and look right. I still have the original tuners in the case, but they don't work too well anymore.
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Re: Gibson A Oval Tuning Machines
Yes, the StewMac Golden Age “Restoration” Tuners are the only ones routinely available.
As Mike says, check out Paul Hosetter’s page but I think that mainly covers how to free up tight tuners rather than tightening up loose ones.
A word of warning though, I notice that one of the mandolins has a “Gibson” logo on the headstock from a much later date. Has a logo simply been added to the headstock or has the mandolin neck been replaced? If the neck is contemporary with the logo and the tuners contemporary with the neck, the tuners are likely to have the more modern (post early 20’s ) spacing. [They look to be “worm under” tuners which suggests the old style spacing but worth double checking]
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Re: Gibson A Oval Tuning Machines
Good advice above. Yeah , once the metal is worn from the worm, usually the problem, it is time for a replacement. StewMac gives a good set of measurements on their site if you want to check for yourself. Luck … R/
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Re: Gibson A Oval Tuning Machines
The best way to determine the tuner spacing is to measure it. The "old" spacing was .931" (23.65mm) from post center to post center. The "New" spacing is .906" (23.01mm).
This is where owning a cheap set of digital calipers from Harbor Freight really comes in handy. Both of yours should be the old size unless that was renecked or something.
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Re: Gibson A Oval Tuning Machines
Hi Mike and all ya all, Yes, the 1912 mandolin that is without the guard is the one I am unsure of. It has the label, body and inner markings of the teens A ovals, but yet has this 40's - 50's headstock decal. I am under the impression there was some Gibson repair shop history that ended with the Logo being added? The bushings are a different shape and size, but the gears and the posts look the same. The one with the correct tailpiece and pickguard is the '13. I will do as you have suggested and measure the spacing. Thanks for the help, friends!
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Re: Gibson A Oval Tuning Machines
Pull a side from the 13 and see if it fits in the other. That should tell you one way or the other or just measure them.
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Re: Gibson A Oval Tuning Machines
Here are the backs of the two headstocks. The '13 (some have said it is an '09) is on the left and the '12 with the 50's decal is on the right. Both are 15/16" from center of post to center of post, and this is roughly 23 millimeters.
Attachment 178584 Attachment 178587
Attachment 178585 Attachment 178586
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Re: Gibson A Oval Tuning Machines
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Re: Gibson A Oval Tuning Machines
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MikeEdgerton
Pull a side from the 13 and see if it fits in the other. That should tell you one way or the other or just measure them.
Great suggestion, Mike!
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Re: Gibson A Oval Tuning Machines
The one with the new logo could have been back to the factory for a 50's-60's repair. I had an early 30's F2 that they did the same thing to.
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Re: Gibson A Oval Tuning Machines
The earlier spacing is 15/16", center to center. The later spacing is 29/32". Be sure you measure carefully.
If you're not sure about the accuracy of your measurements, you can measure from the first tuner on the strip to the last tuner.
The earlier tuners will measure about 2 13/16" center to center, or just over 2 3/4". Later tuners will measure closer to 2 23/32" or just under 2 3/4".
The Golden Age Restoration tuners are the only ones that will work on the early spacing. All other modern tuners should fit the later spacing.
I see that Stew-mac is finally offering a version of "Restoration" tuners for F models. For those of you with teens F-4's, you might want to order a set in case they go out of production.
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Re: Gibson A Oval Tuning Machines
rcc56, Thank you for the standard measurement specificity. This is very helpful, although admittedly, a caliper tool would help.
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Re: Gibson A Oval Tuning Machines
Serviced mine removed them.. one of the shaft hole journal pieces came a bit loose, over rhe years since 22..
so I made a tool, to support. one end , curved to march the edge, so as to not change the shape of the shaft hole
as, I banged on the swaged part, to re tighten it in the hole in the backing plate..
then put them back on (I forget how long ago this was) been fine ever since..
...
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Re: Gibson A Oval Tuning Machines
Thanks for the heads up. I just ordered a set for my 1917 A1. Will post pictures as I do the install.
Russ
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Re: Gibson A Oval Tuning Machines
I've had two custom mandolins made for me. Both a-models. I don't like the worm-over look, so I requested that both of them be made with worm-under tuners. Both builders used the restoration tuners and drilled with the old spacing.
Those tuners work just fine. And, I like the looks!
f-d
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Re: Gibson A Oval Tuning Machines
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Russ Donahue
Thanks for the heads up. I just ordered a set for my 1917 A1. Will post pictures as I do the install.
Russ
You are ahead of me, Russ. I look forward to hearing how things went! Thanks.
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Re: Gibson A Oval Tuning Machines
Hi folks.
I promised pictures but found the job finished before I even remembered I was going to document the process.
It was really easy.
I did one side at a time. Made sure I had the correct tuner plate ready to go into the holes when the old one was removed. Removed the strings from the treble side. Removed the screws. Gently pulled the original tuner plate out. The bushings fell out. Picked up the new tuner plate and gently popped it into the existing holes. Eezy-peezy. Turned the instrument over, and gently put the old bushings back into their holes around each new tuner shaft. Took a little gentle pressing, but each went back where they belonged. Turned it over, and the screw holes were a dight off. No problem. The original screws went right back in with little difficulty. Repeated the process on the bass side.
Result? Tuners feel more solid and don't "wiggle" as I tighten the strings. Seem to hold tuning better as well.
Of course, I saved the original tuners, and the replacement bushings (that I didn't use) and the replacement screws (that I didn't use). Looking forward to playing her for the next few days to see if the new tuners improve the tuning stability.
This is the type of job I like. Roughly 40 minutes from start to finish. Required one small screw driver, a bit of dexterity - mostly for rewinding strings around the shafts, and patience. Thank you Stew Mac!
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Re: Gibson A Oval Tuning Machines
Attachment 178774 Attachment 178775
Here are pictures showing the new tuners in place on the 1917 A1.
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Re: Gibson A Oval Tuning Machines
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I've heard through the grapevine of a very reliable source that Stew-Mac will be offering worm over gear bump ends plain and engraved for the GREAT old Gibson's of the post Loar through the early 40's! Also Kluson will be doing this as they showed their mark on A models to the great F-5 of the depression and pre-war years! "Just heard this so within a year?"
We'll see I guess but that won't stop my emails to them every month about making these bump end worm over gear tuners for mandolins! LoL!!! I forgot to ask if it's Waverly or Golden Age but either one is fine but I'm speculating its Golden Age tuners!