Confusing Gibson Flatiron

I recently obtained a Gibson Flatiron mandolin, which I really love and play every day (I'm now retired and can devote the time!). However, I have been trying to trace the history of this instrument and am somewhat confused. The label inside (unsigned) states that it is a Gibson Master Model, A5 Artist, but it is patently an F5 (with appropriate points, peghead, scroll, florida fingerboard and F-holes). The serial number is 80107029, which the Gibson system would suggest it was made on 10 Jan 1987. The label states "Gibson Inc, Nashville TN USA" but I've read that the manufacture didn't move to Nashville until later and anyway this would pre-date the Gibson purchase of Flatiron. Can anyone better informed help clarify?

Gibson serial numbers . . . [sigh]

From what I've read, there were at least two numbering systems for Gibson Flatirons made in the US. And they are both different than the system used on Gibson guitars.

The earlier system is for Montana made mandolins. The first two digits are the year.
For example, 89xxxxxx would indicate a mandolin built in Montana in 1989.

For Nashville made Flatirons, the last digit is the decade, and the first digit is the year in the decade.
In other words, 80107029 would indicate a mandolin made in Nashville in 1998.

If the above is not accurate, somebody please correct me.

Maybe it has an A5 label because the assembler picked the wrong label out of the pile. Or because they were out of F-5 labels. Or because it was quitting time on Friday, and any old label would do.

2nd mandolin labeled on January 01, 1998, not even a Friday

In 1987, Gibson bought the Flatiron mandolin manufacturing company, located in Bozeman/MT, from the owner, Steve Carlson. In that facility, Gibson continued to make both Gibson brand and Flatiron brand mandolins side by side. The instruments had similarities in construction, but differed some. Gibson also started to have acoustic guitars built in Montana - to this day. In 1996 Gibson relocated Flatiron to Nashville, and Flatiron mandolins were built in the same facility as Gibsons. Bruce Weber and other Flatiron employees stayed in MT and started "Sound To Earth" (Weber brand mandolins). Gibson discontinued building Flatiron brand mandolins in Nashville, I believe sometime in the early 2000's. A bit later, Gibson started to have Flatiron brand mandolins imported from China.

"The serial number is 80107029"

January 7, 1998, 2nd instrument completed that day.

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The label inside (unsigned) states that it is a Gibson Master Model, A5 Artist, but it is patently an F5 (with appropriate points, peghead, scroll, florida fingerboard and F-holes).

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They put that label on every mandolin they built around that time.

OK, I just re-read that. It says it's an A5 and it's an F body?

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Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton

They put that label on every mandolin they built around that time.

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Seems like you're saying Gibson was consistent about something? Does seem right to me. :-)

pictures would be nice. . .

Is it x-braced or parallel?

I'd agree on the '98 vintage. So, that's after Gibson bought Flatiron. It's likely too early for the Asian pedigree? It's also too early for the Nashville pedigree.

Bet it's a nice one!

f-d

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Originally Posted by fatt-dad

pictures would be nice. . .

Is it x-braced or parallel?

I'd agree on the '98 vintage. So, that's after Gibson bought Flatiron. It's likely too early for the Asian pedigree? It's also too early for the Nashville pedigree.

Bet it's a nice one!

f-d

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I have to ay it's the nicest to play of the mandos I have (I am a sufferer from MAS like many mando players!). I have a couple of Barnes & Mullins (A and F) and 2 Eastmans, or should that be Eastmen? (again A and F) Also a Seagull S8 (nice to play), an Ashbury Lindisfarne and an unknown Bowlback, reputed to be 1900-20 which I have refurbished (thanks to Jerry Rosa's many videos for the invaluable info on how-to). See, I have it bad, so be kind...

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Originally Posted by pasteye

I have to ay it's the nicest to play of the mandos I have (I am a sufferer from MAS like many mando players!). I have a couple of Barnes & Mullins (A and F) and 2 Eastmans, or should that be Eastmen? (again A and F) Also a Seagull S8 (nice to play), an Ashbury Lindisfarne and an unknown Bowlback, reputed to be 1900-20 which I have refurbished (thanks to Jerry Rosa's many videos for the invaluable info on how-to). See, I have it bad, so be kind...

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Here are some pix of my new baby:

Attachment 181679Attachment 181683Attachment 181684Attachment 181685
Nice, huh?
As to bracing, I'm afraid both my fingers and inspection mirror are too big to fit through the F-holes, so cannot confirm type or configuration.

Incidentally, can anyone help id my revitalised bowlback, with distinctive butterfly inlay? Maker and/or date would be great.

Attachment 181682Attachment 181686Attachment 181687Attachment 181688Attachment 181689

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Originally Posted by pasteye

... help id my revitalised bowlback, with distinctive butterfly inlay?

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Edit: Whoops! Photos added while I was typing, so mostly "never mind". But I gotta say ...

That is THE best photo of what I've called the "knife-edge worm & rectangular cog" style of gearset, virtually always with the cog riveted/center-punched onto the shaft. Normally on pre-WWII European instruments, which doesn't narrow it down by much. The finish looks too pristine to be original, but I'm no expert.

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Originally Posted by EdHanrahan

Edit: Whoops! Photos added while I was typing, so mostly "never mind". But I gotta say ...

That is THE best photo of what I've called the "knife-edge worm & rectangular cog" style of gearset, virtually always with the cog riveted/center-punched onto the shaft. Normally on pre-WWII European instruments, which doesn't narrow it down by much. The finish looks too pristine to be original, but I'm no expert.

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Thanx Mr Hanrahan, ay least its 70 years old by your guess. The tuners I have to say are a bi7c4 to use as they are so tight at string tension and the buttons are so small and so close. I believe the finish to be original, as I said I have renovated the instrument, so saw the condition when bought. Amazing what a little walnut oil can do for wood!

Nice Flatiron!

f-d

I'm sure I saw that mandolin in a UK auction listing recently. Brompton's possibly.

As long as you love it, I wouldn't worry about age etc.

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Originally Posted by pasteye

... The tuners ... are so tight at string tension ...

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Unfortunately, luthier & Cafe member Paul Hostetter died earlier this year, but thanks to his family continuing his website, THIS gem of tunerosity is still available to us. Enjoy, and apply liberally!
http://www.lutherie.net/tuner.maintenance.html

ps: It wouldn't surprise me if this was the most-frequently referred article on the Cafe.

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Originally Posted by fatt-dad

pictures would be nice. . .

Is it x-braced or parallel?

I'd agree on the '98 vintage. So, that's after Gibson bought Flatiron. It's likely too early for the Asian pedigree? It's also too early for the Nashville pedigree.

Bet it's a nice one!

f-d

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Fatt-Dad
My new dental inspection mirror has arrived, aiding an internal view, and I can now confirm it has cross-bracing. Very fine, no more than 3/16" wide and about the same in depth. No cloth reinforcement at the crossing point, as found in the Lloyd Loar originals. Does this help the ID and nationality?

x-bracing seemed a Flatiron thing. I think other than their Jr. Models, they were all x-braced.

Sounds like a good example of a great Flatiron mandolin. Enjoy it!

f-d

I have two of those picks. They sound great.

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Originally Posted by Splinters_&_Wires

I have two of those picks. They sound great.

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What picks are you talking about? This is a 3+ year old thread.