Left Hand Position

Do you use the same left hand position for playing melody and chords?

I read somewhere that one should maintain "proper" (whatever that means) left hand positioning for playing melody but that you then use whatever position you have to to get the chords you need. So, for me, that means "no".

What Henry said.

Some of the chord shapes were designed without regard to the human hand. Do what you have to do to reach them, and hope nothing slips out of joint.

And, hi Sherry! Happy New Year, and don't be a stranger.

Thanks, Henry and Louise. My regular teacher has me holding my hand in a traditional violin form. I've just started taking lessons from a guy who's helping me with chords and jamming with others. It's been interesting since he doesn't read music. He hugs the neck with his left hand, which I find challenging. I'm wondering if hand size also comes into play.

Yes, Louise, I have been a stranger for a while. I just get a little down when I read how much fun you guys are having when all I can manage to do is take lessons and practice. I hope to manage a (second) music camp this summer. This second teacher will hopefully help me prepare for the jams that will take place there.

I look at it something like the following: <start rambling rant>

I know I won't ever be playing on a professional level. So I listen to the pros' lessons and I do try to emulate their recommended form. But I don't beat my head against the wall. I think Pete Martin has a good concept going with his emphasis on ergonomics. But I still can't do some of the things he thinks are ergonomically correct. Regardless of what is considered "good form", it won't help any at all if your hands just refuse to bend or stretch in the required way. Not in the short run, anyway (which is all I am in it for).

So I make compromises. I think the important thing is to know what those compromises are and to be OK with them. If I am looking to make a career as a mandolin player, I would probably be doing all the finger busters and stretches possible along with maybe some Miracle-Gro to make them longer. After all, there are pros with short stubby fingers. But, as an old toot I am quite willing to admit that those four finger chop chords are a bit much for me, or that my pinkie is just not as athletic as my other fingers, and declare that I am not willing to devote the time and energy to changing that reality when I could instead be making progress in other aspects of my playing.

<end rambling rant>

I agree with Henry and others. My personal feeling is that if everyone had the exact same size hands than you could possibly say there is correct way and an incorrect way. I'm still trying to find the best positions for me. I find myself watching a lot of YouTube videos, originally to listen to the music but lately more to watch the hands of the players.

Happy New Year, Sherry! (and to everyone here).

Just my thoughts, but ~ I seriously doubt that any two players use the same exact left hand form across the board (as in when picking the same tunes, playing the same chords, etc.)

I think that teachers will show you what has worked for them and what they consider to be important points. They want to find an ideal, and teach it as best they understand it. I've learned a lot by listening to and trying out things I've heard and read from different teachers. Many of the things I've learned or tried have been very helpful, and some have been difficult to implement and get used to.

As far as the difference between chording and playing melody notes, I think Henry has it right. You can't make all chords in the same hand position. You'll have to be flexible to adjust your hand in different positions for many different chords.

And, finally, chords are based on the notes that make the chords. You just have to learn how to find the right notes to make any given chord. You adjust your hand and your fingers to get the right notes. And there are multiple ways and places to find the right notes for a given chord on the mandolin. There is no "one right way" to play any given chord.

Good luck with your working on rhythm playing, Sherry! I do think it's best not to "choke the neck" with your palm when playing chords, unless you need to play a particular chord that you can't make in any other way. That should be the exception and not the rule for most of us.

Hi Sherry. It is good to hear from you.

If it is any comfort, you are not alone in standing on the sidelines watching everybody else here having so much fun, getting better and better, while you continue to practice. That is where I am also. I seem to get in a stride where I am making progress then other life events get in the way for a while and I am back at almost the beginning again. Kind of frustrating sometimes, but I just try to remember I am doing this for fun. Like Henry said, I won't be making a living at it!

Don't be a stranger!

Stacey

Sherry, hand size absolutely is a factor. So is proportion—for example, a person with a very short fourth finger will do things differently than someone with a relatively long pinkie. Mandolins are different, too. Lots of variation in the width and depth of the neck. Multiply the number of neck configurations by the number of hand sizes and shapes, add in differing amounts of flexibility, and you have a really weird math problem.

I'm glad to hear you are taking some lessons from someone else. Your first teacher sounds like she has been great for getting you started and helping establish good technique, but there's always more than one way to do things. This new one may be just about the opposite of the first, and that's OK. Does he have you going to jams? When you say he "hugs the neck" does that mean he has his wrist bent in? (In violin world, that's referred to as "pizza hand"—bent like that of a waitress delivering a pizza to the table.) That hand position makes it more difficult to get your fingers around where you want them, i.e. getting your little finger over to the G course may be much more difficult, more so for someone with smaller hands.

A couple of months ago there was a thread in the main forum about how much or how little mandolin activity there is in your community. A year ago, I would have said I was living in a desert. (OK, New Mexico actually is a desert, so yeah, I live in a desert. Fact.) Mandolin-wise, though, there's a lot more going on here than I knew. As I have met people, tried a couple different teachers, found out that people I already knew were closet mandolinists, it turns out that there's a lot more water in this desert than I knew. I have been able to go to house concerts and workshops that aren't advertised. There is one weekly public jam, although I haven't gone. A woman I've known for years through orchestra is active in it—turns out she's a closet banjo player. Or she's a closet classical violinist. Not sure which way that works.

The point I'm trying to make, Sherry and Stacey, please don't stay on the sidelines. Go to a jam or a festival. Read the bulletin board at the music store. Go to a concert, try a jam. Life does get in the way, especially at the holidays, and jobs and kids have to take priority. There is a time though, to go find some fun.

I can't add much more to this interesting discussion than to say we're none of us going to be professionals, so post anything, any time, no matter how rough it is. You'll always find positive feedback here, and it will help you develop - just the act of making the video helps improve your playing!

Also, remember there are phases & plateaus to learning the instrument. It's great that you're practicing! It will give you muscle memory, help kick you into the next level (and help you play tunes you already know much better) - as well as prepare you for jamming.

Thanks for ALL comments. I've watched some videos on hand position, none of which gave me that "aha" sensation. Two finger chords don't challenge me, but I really need to add that third finger (don't I?). Moveable chords are just too cool. I would love to master them.

Louise, finding opportunities for playing with others is not the challenge in my particular case. If I were single, I'd be doing it a lot.

Thank you for your comments, Louise and bbcee. I am trying to keep a positive attitude and keep at it.