How do YOU learn a tune?

I thought I'd start a discussion, that may get us to discussing!

I am curious, among those who are in this group, whether you are a regular contributor, or one of those silent participants.....

How do you learn new tunes? Here, and in general...

Do you read TAB? Do you read standard notation? Do you learn solely by ear? Both?

I'll start.

I took up mandolin about 12 years ago, (I think, haha!) I had never played a stringed instrument, but I had learned to read music when I was a child, and played the piano when I was a child, and played some 'pop' organ when I was a teenager (my mother got an organ, and was playing it, so I did, too!)

Anyway, when I decided to become a musician (haha... it sounds funny that way).... I had some friends who were musicians, and got together and played, and I wanted to join in. I never even KNEW what a mandolin was.... but my friends played Old Time and Irish music. I wasn't familiar with that genre of music, either, but I liked it! I started with some kind of whistle (I'd never played any kind of instrument that you blow into, either) and I was a failure... so they suggested a mandolin, loaned me one, gave me some lessons, and I was hooked.

The guy that was my teacher is a talented musician, but he does NOT read any kind of music. So, my first few months of lessons were just by example, and ear memorization. However, I quickly realized that I wanted to learn more and faster, and decided that reading music had to be like riding a bike... if you had learned before, you could remember!

So, I got my first couple of books, and started remembering how to read standard notation. I also learned a lot of the early tunes I learned, completely by ear.... playing music on my computer, and playing along with them. That's still my most relaxing playing/practice.... playing my mandolin along with some great band on my computer! I've been playing along with many of the tunes I played, for so many years now, that I don't have to think at all...

I had some time under my belt, when I discovered Mandolin Cafe, and read about the importance of pick direction (and many other things!), so I had to retrain my hand to pick some tunes I'd committed to memory with the WRONG pic direction.

Nowadays, I really to prefer to find some standard notation to a tune, and also find some music videos on YOU Tube, and listen to how it flows, and mess around with the notation till I find something that seems to click for me, until I've got something I like the sound of. I still can learn a tune completely by ear, if I can't find notation... it just takes longer, haha!

I do most of my mandolin playing alone these days, at home.

How about the rest of you?

Learning a new tune is always a bit of a chore but here's how I go about it. First step is to look for some simple notation that contains the bare bones of the tune. I prefer a tabledit file but can use abc files or even standard notation as the starting point for figuring out a tune. The next step is to search for as many recorded versions of the tune as I can find in my record and cd collection, on youtube or spotify. I copy the ones I like best to my mp3 player and on my daily hike I listen to the tune to get it stuck in my head. Now it's time to try out the tab and see if it is going to be an easy one (rare) or a hard one.

Now the fun part begins. It is really important to know the underlying chord structure and if one isn't provided with the tab I figure it out and write it on the tab. Next, I start working on the tab to get it MEMORIZED. Once it is, I start to play it over and over listening for spots to add an ornament or embellishment, a double stop, maybe a slide or two, or a bit of harmony. (This is where the chord structure comes in handy because it provides a direction for the additions to go in.) It is important at this stage to be able to play the tune nearly up to speed or you might embellish yourself into a corner, that is make the arrangement too hard to actually play right. It would be nice to write down the finished version but I rarely do that.

The final step for me since I joined SAW is to record the finished tune. This is where a tune you think you know tells you that you might not know it as well as you thought! Remember to practice the parts you always mess up on more than the parts you always play well. Once I have put down an acceptable take of the tune, I add it to my list of tunes to practice frequently in case I want to play it in public.

Like you, Barbara, I had a couple of years at piano when a very young teenager, but this never got me hooked as there was no place for the music I was interested in; my teacher was a very traditional one and it was a diet of scales and other exercises, with a few of the standard (?) piano exercises thrown in. My dad had an old acoustic guitar in the house (I still have it even now) and taught me what he had taught himself, including basic chords. He had got the guitar by mail-order in the 1930s along with a set of lessons. I was growing up in the era of The Shadows, Cliff Richard, and an American fellow called Elvis! This is what I wanted to play.

Fortunately I had an uncle who was a very good pianist and had his own dance band, and he encouraged me when he was visiting us. The only drawback was that he lived some way from us and we had no car back then and travel was long and complicated in the rural area of Scotland I grew up in, but he helped me with chords and music theory and I could see a purpose now in learning. With some like-minded school pals I began to work at learning by ear the tunes that interested me.

As I got better and had more tunes under my fingers I realised that being able to read the dots gave me access to a lot more music. The music available then was the standard piano score with guitar chords, and not always in guitar-friendly keys nor scored as the record sounded. In my late teens and university years I was playing in a dance band at home and we played for the Saturday dances. Then the programme was for waltzes, quicksteps, foxtrots and all the popular dances that were in at the time. We even played THE TWIST as a special request. This repertoire gave me the incentive to learn so many tunes and I had the opportunity to play rhythm and also some lead spots. The band leader was a keyboard player who had started out on accordion, and he was a very fine player of Scottish dance music as well as all the popular dances mentioned. He supplied chord sheets for the tunes we played and I spent many hours working on developing my chord playing and trying to get as much theory into my brain as I could to help with my playing.

Mandolin came later. I saw a bowl-back in a junk-shop window and was really taken by it. I had to ask someone how it was tuned before I could start to learn to play on it, and this again was very much by ear.

In summary, I began by playing by ear, picked up some theory and an ability to read the dots, then was lucky enough to be able to play along with other musicians in diferent disciplines for many years. Playing with others makes you into a good listener and gives the chance to try out different ideas. I still find that the best way to get a tune learned is by a combination of ear, standard notation and (as Michael has said) repeated listening to other folk playing the tunes then trying to add something that I can maybe say has a bit of me in it! I too use recording a lot as does Michael, and it is a salutory lesson to record yourself then sit back and listen! The SAW group has had a big influence here too, by encouraging me to make recordings and also to hear how many ways one tune can be rendered. And the encouraging comments from fellow posters is just what we need to keep us playing!

This is my way of learning a tune: First I like to look at the standard notation, and then look at it while listening to a few versions. Then I like to look at the tab notation and get familiar with the fingering. Then back to the standard notation to look at the structure and see how many phrases are repeated. The goal is to at least partially memorize the structure as I play through it. I will try to practice specific themes within a measure, especially in relation to timing and rhythm. After I am familiar with the piece and can play through it without too much difficulty, I like to record myself playing to see what needs the most improvement. Often my tempo is slow, so it’s a good time to start with a metronome. Finally, if the piece is simply melody, I might try and play it as rhythm. That involves finding suitable chords. I repeat these steps more than once and hope for the best. Mandolin is fairly new to me, and that is why I like to follow standard notation and tab’s so much. I am not familiar enough with the instrument to improvise chords or scales.

I learned a bit about music in elementary school band, I started on trumpet in 4th or 5th grade, but later switched to drums so I only learned the basics about music and notation. At about 11 or 12 years old (50 years ago, ha) I picked up my dad's guitar, he gave me one lesson and handed me a method book. So I learned with the method book, then using my ear to try to play Beatles and other stuff from the radio. Really learned rhythm watching Richie Havens, John Lennon, listening to records.

Fast forward about 50 years. A couple years ago, I picked up a mandolin, and got hooked.

Learning tunes - I don't sight read, but can decipher standard notation. When I hear a tune that calls my name, I learn it by using whatever resources are available. Listening to different versions, hunting TAB or sheet music or chord charts and lyric sheets. If there is none of that available, I just learn it by ear. I usually go ahead and transcribe it to written music as I learn it. I like having a written record of what I'm playing, so I can refer to it in the future if necessary, or share it with others. I never play by sight reading though, I use the sheet and the ear to learn and burn a tune into memory. I find that some stick with me through the years, and others evaporate over time, but the written sheets can bring 'em back to me pretty quick.

I'm one of the lurkers. Found SAW soon after getting my first mandolin (5 years). The question is how do we learn a new song, so here goes. Hadn't read music since junior high band (now 74) but with time and using TablEdit, began to be able, as someone else said, to decipher it. Tab has been invaluable, especially with TablEdit which will import and export ABC. That feature has been especially helpful since I picked up guitar again and could export ABC of a melody I know on mandolin, then import to guitar tab (I fingerpick in open G).

But, back to learning a tune. I use tab to find the notes and fingering, with lots of woodshed time to get it into memory (or what's left of it at my age). Getting the tune into my head though is the key to being able to play it in any way more than mechanically. So, I put a version, sometimes more than one, I like on my MP3 player for the truck. At some point, what I hear in my head begins to be what drives my playing. It helps a lot that after a time, where the notes of a key are become familiar. In my opinion, tab and notation are a great help to finding the tune on the fret board, but getting to the point of playing it by ear is when it becomes most satisfying, rather than work. Lot's of woodshed time!

I've never posted a video to SAW because I still cannot get through a whole tune without a lot of stumbling. But I love playing, especially now I've begun to play more than just notes (tone, phrasing, reasonable speed). I believe hearing in your head what you're trying to play is the essence of it.

There's a story that, at 84 Pablo Casals mentioned practice so many times in an interview, the interviewer said, "Maestro, you are acknowledged the greatest living master of cello. Why do you still practice?" And, Casals replied, "Because I think I'm making progress."

I've started playing music self taught so learned to play guitar by ear as a kid. When I started playing tenor banjo my teacher would do "call and response" type set ups for learning tunes where she'd play a line and I'd parrot it back. I did also learn to read ABC's and will use ABC's to get me started playing a new tune but then and ornaments and variations meself. My preferred method to learn is via ear (sometimes needing to slow a tune down), and second preference would be to get started with ABC's and take it from there. I can read notation but it's an effort so I don't learn tunes that way, and I dislike learning tunes via tab as I think of tab like taking the tube when you visit London - you get where you need to go but you don't have a real sense of direction or where you are in the city.

Learning by ear always makes a tune feel like my "own", as regards remembering it, easily coming up with ornamentation etc.

I start with notation (a leftover skill from my nine years of violin lessons) plus listening to several versions if possible. The notation is more of a reminder for the first 2 days, then I leave it for decorating the case interior. I used to change the ABC code to reduce the notation to what the basic tune really is, but gave up doing that about 2 years ago - my eyes have learned to make that step on the fly. My first tunebook was TAB and I could deal with that, but it's really painting by numbers and not helpful for optical memorizing, like Jill said.

I learn strictly by ear. First I listen until I have the tune memorized in my head and then I can practice playing on the instrument. If I have a part I'm struggling to "hear", I'll slow the recording down. If I can't get a particular part in my head I'm doomed. Hence I do sometimes wish I could sight read.

I start by finding a version of the tune I like and then I listen to it till I get it in my head. Then I try to find notation that matches what's in my head. Sometimes I find it, sometimes I find something close and modify it and sometimes I just write it down from what's in my head. Sometimes what's in my head isn't what was on the recording I originally listened to, the tune morphs into something else while it's running around in my head. I've had to relearn tunes I notated incorrectly. For most of my musical career I learned and played everything by ear but in 1994 I learned that my maximum memory capacity was 79 tunes, when I tried to learn tune #80, #1 would disappear. I happened to be playing in an Irish session at the time and I began writing down all the tunes we learned, teaching myself to read music in the process. I still can't sight read Happy Birthday but I can figure out any tune from notation.

When I want to learn a tune, I look for a nice version. Then I listen to it over and over until the melody gets into my head. Sometimes I have to slow down a tune (my mp3 player has a transpose and a slowdown function which is very helpful) . Then I write down the right chords an find a good tempo to record a backingtrack. That's when I really start practising a tune. There are moments when I use a tab or sheet music. I can read notes but I can't play from sheet very well.

i tend to use the session org and learn tunes by abc, just basically repeating the bones of the tune until i can play it by memory, then add a little ornamentation then, i really struggle to learn by ear, i find myself looking to see what notes are being played rather than listening , i really must work on that , as its the most common way Irish tunes are passed on.

Thanks for all ya'll who have joined this discussion! I hope more of our members join it, too! I agree, getting the tune in your HEAD is the key. Once your head knows what the right notes are, you'll notice when you hit a wrong note! I would describe it as 'humming silently in your head" while playing it. While I do like finding the notation for what I want to play, and I do learn it by playing while I'm reading, if it's something I end up liking, and really get it committed to memory, I just play it from memory... if I'm rusty on it, I may look over the notation, to remind myself how it goes.

I've played in a local Irish jam session, where there is a guy who, it seems, ONLY sight reads, but can play and read pretty fast! I'm always fascinated by that, because, to me, most of the tunes played in these jams are so simple, that it would just seem after years of playing them regularly, he'd have memorized some of them!

Another reason that I like to see the notation for a tune, is it's the quickest way for me to understand (visualize) the structure of the tune... which measures repeat them selves, etc. How the A part relates to the B part, or when one part has 2 different endings depending on when you play it.

My method is sort of a mashup of a lot of the approaches here. When I was a guitar player, I learned by tab, but quickly realized the quality of tabs found on the internet can vary quite a lot!

Since picking up mandolin I've been pleased by the emphasis on learning tunes by ear, and that's helped a lot when a tune becomes an itch to be scratched. I know enough chords & about chords to figure out easier progressions, helped by slowdown software.

A good method for me is to watch or listen to a couple of examples to find the one that speaks to me, download it & slow it down to learn the bones with help from the tab/tabledit, etc. if necessary. I play it for a while & refer back to my references to see if I've now "personalized" it TOO much. This is good for now, though learning the dots is on the radar. I have Joe Carr's book, and it's a good one, it just needs the right moment to try it again.

So many great tools are available to us verus the days of slowing down records or learning lame versions from the cool kid in school (my guitar past coming back to haunt me again). Actually, recording myself has really helped cement tunes in the ol' cranium, and what a mental game to see what your best is at that moment. And online lessons from Famous People? What a great era we find ourselves in. Use it all, I say!

I also get a recording to imprint the song in my head, and then find a transcription, preferably notation, but TAB works too. Then I learn the melody in short phrases, 2 or 4 bars at a time. And then I work on the chords and chord voicings to be efficient and have good voice leading. And then I work on improvising. I've also started to notate the charts with the note values relative to the key (not chord) to get the sound associated with the notation. Interesting when tunes modulate a few times.

I admit to being another ‘Lurker’ – I joined the Café a little over 3 years ago when I decided I wanted to learn to play the mandolin. I mainly peruse the General Discussion forum, and didn’t realize the SAW social group existed until I read Barbara’s post there last week. I spent a good bit of time over the weekend going through the older posts and songs, and find it to be a very nice group with a huge amount of information.
To answer the question – how do you learn . . . Well, first off, I can sight read standard notation, but at my age I find this boarders on ‘work’, so I mainly use it if available for the timing and flow of the music. I am horrible getting the timing and feel of a song with tab, but I find it is much easier to learn the notes. (Don’t have to remember what key you are in and all the flats and sharps) My preference is to get the song impregnated in my thick skull, and use the tabs as a starting point – then play what I hear and feel. I realize this isn’t the politically correct way to do things, but since I am playing for my enjoyment, it is what I do. I find the faster the song, the more difficulty I have hearing the individual notes, so if tab or standard notation is available, it is a big help. There are so many songs that I have learned by ear that I continuously learn I am playing ‘wrong’ once someone hands me the music for it. Very seldom can I make myself re-learn the song though – seems like there are so many new tunes to learn. . . .
To maybe help put the previous rambling into some perspective, I have been playing guitar for over 50 years, and played in several ‘weekend warrior’ country / rock bands for over 20 years. I never had a guitar lesson and learned and played everything by ear – so I guess old habits die hard. One big change I have made in attempting to learn the mandolin – I have sought help from established players since I started. This was a means to prevent picking up too many bad habits and getting them ingrained into my muscle memory. Something I wish I would have done years ago when learning the guitar.
Thanks for letting me ramble, and rest assured I will be checking this group frequently – who knows – might even upload something some day!
Mark

Hey folks, I haven't contributed in a while (was self-conscious about putting up videos of myself), but I'll join the discussion.

I came to this about 7 years back, having never studied music or learning more than 4 chords on a guitar. But a prof in the music department at the University I work at was giving free Irish music lessons on Saturdays. Basically, he took the vernacular approach in teaching music by ear. We would go in and learn (typically) two tunes by listening to and repeating phrases until you have the whole tune down. No sheet music, no tabs, no ABC, but all by ear. I was frustrated in just playing chords, so I took up the octave mandolin and started learning tunes. The free lessons ended long ago, but I’ve persisted in trying to learn the tunes by ear. I would listen to tunes I liked until I was dreaming of them. Now I’ll have tune pop into my head that I can’t for the life of me remember the title to, but it is there under my fingers. I really believe that for Irish trad, learning by ear and repetition really works. But . . . when I have a hard part, I’ll slow them down and transcribe them. This is one of the things that slowed me down on the tune a week gig; I’d be adamant about learning the tune by ear rather than sheet music or ABC, and if I was swamped at work I’d never get it down well enough to record without embarrassment.

Of late, due to time constraints and a growing repertoire that requires more time to practice and leaves less time to learn, I have started using ABCs on occasion, but most often just to pick up the differences in settings between what is played in the session and what may be on a recording.
CB

I'll add that I do agree with Barbara now about seeing the sheet music and it being a quicker way to visualize the structure of the tune, what repeats, etc. The whole thing is a learning process, and I think merging different methods depending on the complexity of a given tune works for me now.

Looks like a lot of us have similar tune-learning habits.

I too learn better with both the audio (learning by ear from recordings) *and* the visual (looking at standard notation).

I can learn with just one or the other, but both is easier.

If standard notation doesn't exist for a particular version of a tune, which is the case more often than not, I sometimes write down the notes as best I can.

Complicated or fast tunes get slowed down to half speed in Audacity, put on playback loops, and studied until I can figure out at least some of what's going on in the tune.

If an audio recording isn't available for some reason, I will sometimes put the tune into MuseScore 2 (for info about that app as it relates to mandolin & fiddle tunes & folk songs, see my index and my little tutorial video) and make the written notes playback on the computer so I can hear the notes. Depending on how complicated the tune is.

Tab is good for those pesky Bach tunes etc, that have all the flats and accidentals and notes in places where I'm not used to them. I occasionally download old public-domain PDF scores from IMSLP library etc, try to figure out the sometimes-confusing repeat marks and foreign-language words and whatnot, if I've gotten anywhere with that then I put the notes one-at-a-time into MuseScore, and set about turning them into mandolin versions including tab.

Lately I also like drum tracks for practicing, even for fiddle tunes. My latest goal is to figure out how to use Hydrogen drum machine, it's another one of those free open-source computer apps. I've never used a drum machine before, lots to learn. I like the cool syncopated grooves that some drumming has, I don't know how to create those type of drum tracks yet, but listening to them inspires me to come up with other ideas for the tune itself.

That drum tracks topic is interesting, JL277z - I use a simple drum machine, and only the kick, to produce that thumping stomp I can hear over my own playing, but I would like a whole configurable bodhran player. Here is an axample how this could be done (that man is a session player I know, and his home is full of strange machines):

Bertram Henze wrote: "... I would like a whole configurable bodhran player. ..."

Me too!

I'm not sure but there might be a way to do something like that in Hydrogen. I found some webpages where people have asked about using their own audio recording samples (in wav format I think) to make their own 'instruments' and their own 'drumkits' in Hydrogen. However, at this time it's all way over my head, so I don't know how well it works or how difficult it is.

Bertram, if you figure it out first, let us know!

I don't have a bodhran but I'd like to try importing piezo-pickup recordings of thumps and bumps on various random household objects (tapping on the inside panels of open desk-drawers, also guitar tops, banjo heads, etc). I can make those types of sounds rather crudely in real-time without any software, but if it were possible to put those sounds into a drum machine that might be fun to experiment with too.

So, to get back to the topic, one of the ways I like to learn tunes is through some off the wall experimentation. Different musical explorations might seem unrelated but in the long run they all work together. There's always something new to be learned... and that's good.