Week #535 - Waltz of the White Lilies

  1. Barbara Shultz
    Barbara Shultz
    This weeks winner is The Waltz of the White Lilies. Iím posting this from my phone, so Iím going to depend on yíall to provide links!
  2. David Hansen
    David Hansen
    Kate O'Brien from the Irish group Deanta wrote this waltz.
    Here is a link to the session for dots and abcs:

    Here in a pdf of my version with chords:

    Here is a video of a recording I made in 1999, sorry no mando.

    Another video:

    One more:

  3. John Kelly
    John Kelly
    Ah, Mr Hansen, I thought I might be first to post this one, but I see you have beaten me by about an hour and a half - and a mere 21 years! Lovely version you have there, David. Bowed bass (cello?) sounds great in this one.

    I recorded mine on mandolin with a second mandolin backing track and guitar track.

    Mike, you had posted a question elsewhere about adding a backing track and finding a waltz rhythm. I recorded the melody at 94 bpm (yes, a metronome was used via REAPER) then added the backing tracks just by playing the melody track through my headphones and playing the backing as I listened, with the metronome turned off! I find the metronome too intrusive as it does not let me "feel" the tune in real time. I can manage this reasonably well as a result of having played a great deal of live music (and for dancing as well as just listening) with lots of other players over the years, playing both lead and backing, and have developed a fair sense of how a tune is going and how to keep the rhythm. Dancers very quickly let you know if you are not playing in time!

  4. David Hansen
    David Hansen
    Flawless as usual, Mr.Kelly. Sorry I didn't mean to beat you to the punch, I was trying to be helpful. It's bowed bass on the recording, I've only had the cello for a few months. The recording comes from a CD I recorded in 1999, it was never released but there are a few pressings floating around. Quite a few of the tunes from back then have made it to the SAW.
  5. Ginny Aitchison
    Ginny Aitchison
    Beautifully done John. Your phrasing is always so intuitive, that's what music is about, I think. (and btw, I spelled that right without spellcheck telling me how to spell intuitive) I always like David's concertina. David, I' still learning that darn flute..may take a few years, I'm up to 6 notes now.
  6. Simon DS
    Simon DS
    So that’s how it’s done! Beautiful playing there John.
    Hearing it a couple of times, it’s started to grow on me. To my ears, it seems to be a sophisticated Slow Air, with a couple of different melodic threads.

    And good advice about the metronome John,
    I’d add that if anyone’s having difficulties being right on the beat, the first beat of each measure I mean, you can use a metronome that has a specific rhythm in eighths. This can sometimes help you to think in measures. The idea is to not be suddenly surprised when the first beat of the next measure arrives and you find you’re out a fraction.

    You transfer your attention/focus from all the other tasks involved, reading, breathing, posture, tone etc. to rhythm (for a fraction of a second just before the beginning of the measure) in order to confirm that on the first beat your timing is back in line.

    The issue then is that if you are not in line there is a tendency to suddenly jump back or forwards, which you can hear. So the idea is to think, ‘I’m slightly behind, so I’ll ease forward gently, or alternatively play a longer note double stop and come back in on time’.

    Of course it’s one of the most difficult exercises to do because the metronome is a selfish dictator who never listens! You wont find that at a session. Seriously.
  7. Frithjof
    Thanks, David, for this beautiful version and the access to your pdf.

    I also like Johns tasteful recording.

    Thatís the bad thing with SAW:
    Iíve just taken a fancy to gipsy swing and wanted to improve in this style just a little bit and today you distract me with such a nice waltz as new tune of the week. Not to mention some other tunes during the week.
  8. Frithjof
    Simon wrote: … the metronome is a selfish dictator who never listens!
    You could set this as your signature.
  9. John Kelly
    John Kelly
    Simon says, "Iíd add that if anyoneís having difficulties being right on the beat, the first beat of each measure I mean, you can use a metronome that has a specific rhythm in eighths. This can sometimes help you to think in measures. The idea is to not be suddenly surprised when the first beat of the next measure arrives and you find youíre out a fraction".

    I set the metronome in REAPER to 3/4 time and crotchet = 94. The first beat can be set to a different frequency from the other beats in the bar or measure - in my case I have 800Hz and 1600Hz - and the volume of the two pulses can be adjusted; I have the first beat about twice the volume of the others. The most important bit, I think, is to have a two-bar count-in so that you are not, as Simon says, suddenly caught out by the first notes of your melody line suddenly leaping at you.

    In the White Lilies Waltz the pick-up bar (anacrusis) is three quavers, so as I am counting in my head by the old-fashioned "1 and 2 and 3 and" I know that my first note will be on the middle "and". When not using a metronome this is also how I count inwardly. You can also just count "1,2,3,4,5,6". Whatever you are comfortable with.

    Hope this helps. I really find technical postings can turn a lot of folk off, but there are members here who like to know what the others do to get their end results.
  10. Christian DP
    Christian DP
    Nice concertina version David, and thanks for the chords!
    Wonderful rendition John, like Ginny pointed out, very intuitive phrasing.
  11. Martin Jonas
    Martin Jonas
    Very nice recordings, David and John. Also thanks to David for the chords. Here is mine, on mandolin and tenor guitar, using those chords:

    Mid-Missouri M-0W mandolin
    Vintage Viaten tenor guitar

    Interesting tune for exploring the tone of the mandolin: there aren't many tunes with quite that range, with the A part mainly on the G and D strings and the B part on the A and E strings.

  12. John Kelly
    John Kelly
    Nice one, Mr Jonas. Good point about giving the mandolin a tonal voyage of discovery: from the low open G up to the high B over two octaves above! Your tenor is a really good accompanying instrument to the mandolin, Martin, and the backing you play is very sympathetic.
  13. Frithjof
    Great recording from you too, Martin.
    I like to listen to as much versions as possible to get the phrasing of this waltz right.
  14. Simon DS
    Simon DS
    Fine, competent playing Martin. I like the calm determination you have here.

    Frithjof I could write, Ďthe metronome is a selfish dictator who never listens!í as a signature, but it may not be true.
    -what if the metronome does listen a lot, but it just never replies? Ha!
  15. John Kelly
    John Kelly
    And here was I thinking that metronomes were small, elf-like creatures that dwell in the Paris Underground System and keep it running to time!
  16. Simon DS
    Simon DS
  17. Christian DP
    Christian DP
    Fine version from Martin too!
  18. JL277z
    Lovely versions by David, John, and Martin! The way you guys play the tune, listening to those videos is almost like a cure for everything that's wrong with 2020. Very soothing. Thanks guys, for posting these.
  19. Christian DP
    Christian DP
    I found a score on Musescore, where from measure three on, the melody is an octave higher
    than in the original version, and I thought, for variety's sake, I'll try it this way.
  20. David Hansen
    David Hansen
    That's pretty cool changing the octave like that, I suspect you could play the tune on a Boehm flute with that arangement. I don't think you can get to the low B on an Irish flute even with keys. Nicely done Christian.
  21. John Kelly
    John Kelly
    Christian, this is a beautiful arrangement and recording. You play it with great feeling, and I love the guitar part especially.
  22. Gelsenbury
    What a beautiful tune! A cure for everything that's wrong with our times, as JL said. Your recordings are all brilliant as well.
  23. Frithjof
    I like the good tone of the guitar accompaniment Christian delivers in his recordings.

    Finally I produced my own version and used by accident the same free picture as title like Christian.

  24. Christian DP
    Christian DP
    Great version Frithjof, finely played on mandolin and guitar!
    (and you add "and Alpine Flowers", so you have a bigger choice of pictures.)
  25. Gelsenbury
    Well done, Frithjof! I'll try to learn this tune by playing along with you.
  26. John Kelly
    John Kelly
    Lovely arrangement, Frithjof, and played with great feeling. Your recording sounds really good and the balance is great between the instruments. Super pictures too.
  27. Ginny Aitchison
    Ginny Aitchison
    I have enjoyed al the versions of this pretty tune. A good production by all.
  28. Frithjof
    Thanks for the nice comments.

    We had white lilies in a flower bouquet recently but I missed to take a photo. By this reason I had to use a free picture for the title.
    I found the Turkís-cap lily in the Austrian Alps. All the other pictures of Alpine flowers are also my own takes. I canít pass them on a hike without taking a picture.
  29. Sherry Cadenhead
    Sherry Cadenhead
    I think Christian has the right idea playing this one an octave higher than my arrangement (from the session). I'm trying to press straight onto the G string, rather than pulling it down, but cannot seem to totally get rid of that buzzing. My mandolin teacher says there's nothing wrong with my Weber; ergo, operator error.

    Any suggestions, other than pressing vs. pulling, from those whose versions don't buzz?
  30. John Kelly
    John Kelly
    Sherry, the only suggestion I can offer for your dilemma is to try to ensure that you are pressing the strings immediately behind the fret and not back where you are sort of between frets. Use only enough pressure to get the note sounding cleanly; any further pressure will only cause you to get a less clear note and also cause more finger pain. Position your left hand so that the fingers can come straight down on the note rather than reaching across, which may be what you are describing as pulling the string.
  31. Simon DS
    Simon DS
    Really nice Frithjof I like the deep tone followed by the mandolin with the calm, relaxing tempo, really well done!

    Sherry we used to have a ‘rule’ that said if you post a vid (any vid, any quality) you get 97.5 points on 100, and if the playing is very, very good then you get an extra 3/4 of a point!
  32. Sherry Cadenhead
    Sherry Cadenhead
    John, I'll check where those fingers are landing.

    Simon, I presume there's no rule currently. In any event, I have 3 vids in the works: 1 that's somewhat close (this one), 1 that's pretty darn close and 1 that's all but ready to post. Stay tuned.
  33. Jairo Ramos Parra
    Jairo Ramos Parra
    Sherry, excuse my meddling ... but isn't it one of the functions of a teacher to realize what you're doing wrong and tell you how to correct it?

    "My mandolin teacher says there's nothing wrong with my Weber" ... I think that is not the answer of a teacher ... you should think about changing him, you are wasting time and money with him.

    Here you can get all the help possible, but my advice is that a video would be of great help to be able to give correct advice ...

    Saludos, Jairo
  34. Sherry Cadenhead
    Sherry Cadenhead
    My teacher agreed with my diagnosis. I just thought one of you guys may have a different angle.

    Not to stray from the subject, but I currently have 3 teachers. I get quality instruction from all 3, but each has different strengths
  35. Jairo Ramos Parra
    Jairo Ramos Parra
    Excuse me, Sherry, but it just bothered me that your teacher didn't give you the necessary help ... I guess I misunderstood everything ...
  36. Ginny Aitchison
    Ginny Aitchison
    Sherry, just a thought - you could video yourself - for yourself and watch it. Perhaps there is something you are doing that you cannot see. It took me quite a while to get used to putting the finger just behind the fret marker instead of right in the middle. ( which I still do, too often)
  37. Sherry Cadenhead
    Sherry Cadenhead
    Jairo, no problem. I can see that I gave the impression my teacher wasn't helpful, which isn't true.

    Good suggestion, Ginny. Thanks.
  38. Sherry Cadenhead
    Sherry Cadenhead
    Here's my attempt at this one. Backing track would have been nice.

  39. John Kelly
    John Kelly
    A fine effort there, Sherry. Your timing is really good throughout and your picking is clean and accurate. Those high reaches will become easier the more you play up to that high B. Left hand seems a bit more relaxed too.
  40. Simon DS
    Simon DS
    Excellent Sherry! Relaxed as John says, and firm, clean picking. Well played.
  41. Ginny Aitchison
    Ginny Aitchison
    It's nice to meet you Sherry. I've only seen your name before today. Nice effort at this pretty song.
  42. Frankdolin
    Coming along nicely Sherry! I am enjoying your progress very much!
  43. Christian DP
    Christian DP
    Fine treatment of this tune, Sherry!(and an elegant mando strap)
  44. dustyamps
    Nice rendition Sherry, wonderful tone from your mando.
  45. Sherry Cadenhead
    Sherry Cadenhead
    Thanks so much for everyone's comments and support. There's so much to work on, I find myself forgetting to separate my fingers, etc., etc. It is kind of fun to post a video and maybe it will encourage other relative beginners to do the same.
  46. Sherry Cadenhead
    Sherry Cadenhead
    Christian, my strap is from paracord. I've really enjoyed it.
  47. Gelsenbury
    Nice to see and hear you, Sherry! Like Ginny, I'd only read your name before. You're doing well on those high notes.

    Are your strings quite new? Very new strings can sometimes be slightly loose and cause buzzing, since you mentioned buzzing. This explanation isn't necessarily incompatible with a highly experienced player like your teacher getting no buzz - as always, technique and equipment combine to make the sound.
  48. Sherry Cadenhead
    Sherry Cadenhead
    Dennis, I don't have new strings. For the most part I've been able to overcome the G string buzzing by pressing straight onto the string. Occasionally I fail to do so, pulling down instead and causing the buzz.
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