There seem to have been several eras where Mon's music seemed to change or evolve, I guessing due to personnel changes as well as life changes. One of my favs the the era of Jimmy Martin singing with him, early 50's, also the music of Master of Mandolin represents a very solid time of creativity in his life. Anybody else got some favs?
It would be hard for me to pick a favorite era. I'm just so used to hearing him that they all seem like Bill Monroe. Kind of hard to explain. If I had to pick just one though, I'd have to say the 70's era. It seems to me that he was finally comfortable with what he had created and what he could do with it.Who the heck am I kidding hear, I can't do it. I can't pick just one. There's the Flatt and Scruggs era, where the drive was tremendous, the Jimmy Martin era, the Edd Mayfield era, I just can't do it!
I hear ya Billy it's not easy to choose a favorite Monroe era but for me the Flatt/Scruggs/Wise era is hard to beat but it's all good really. The F & S era recordings , with the exception of a handful of later recordings heard on the radio, were the first Monroe recordings I 'owned' (probably in 1970) and they're what piqued my interest in BG mandolin. Up to that point I'd been strictly a BG rhythm guitar player/singer. Mons' picking on those recordings was quite 'clean' and probably have more appeal to those who prefer "Soothing" (???) or smooth playing or whatever.
The Jimmy Martin era really does it for me. I love Rudy Lyle's banjo playing.
Rudy Lyle was one of the good ones, wasn't he?
I'm with you Mike. Bill had that hard driving down stroke thing going on the best in the 50's I think. When he was in his 70's and recorded The "Master" album it was different but still "in your face Bluegrass". He was definately the man!
One thing that I'm enjoying is an opportunity to discuss Monroe without having to defend his "place" in the music or his "sloppy" picking or whatever to a bunch of people who don't get what is special about him. My favourite era is the mid-fifties, when Edd Mayfield was in the band. Edd is my choice for the best-matched lead singer for Monroe and is also my favouite rhythm guitarist.
This is a hard one. For me, IMHO it's all Bill Monroe, although I have to agree with mandozilla the Flatt/Scuggs/Wise period was great. As far as people saying that his playing was "sloppy". I never thought that Mr. Monroe's playing was anything other than fantastic, considering he had complete mastery of his instrument.
"One thing that I'm enjoying is an opportunity to discuss Monroe without having to defend his "place" in the music or his "sloppy" picking or whatever to a bunch of people who don't get what is special about him." I'm glad you feel like that, that was my idea when I started the group, we are all starting from common ground. I really like the fifties Monroe stuff too, for me the Jimmy Martin vocals period was especially classic. "Who don't get what was special about him" How would you all describe that? To me, it didn't have as much to do with technique as with the fact that he seemed to bare his soul with every damn note that he played. His playing reflected him, his sense of self. I always thought that Grapelli was like this as was Tiny Moore, different personalities but out there for us. It seems to me that modern society, as a whole, goes lala over technique over content. Monroe was about content like all real artists. I could babble on I guess, but I'd rather hear what "all y'all" have to say. Have a good day and pick on. Hint to Mandolirius, isn't there another social group you should be on as well as this one?
Hello Mike, To continue with that thought, to me it's not how many notes you play as much as owning each note. There was as much being said when Mr. Monroe paused in between notes as there where when he was playing the thunder out of his mandolin. What I guess what a lot of people might call "sloppy" I refer to as chicken pickin'. Yes, I agree you can't leave out the king of bluegrass Jimmy Martin. Happy playing !
To me, when he played, he was able to speak to you with out ever saying a word .
<Hint to Mandolirius, isn't there another social group you should be on as well as this one?> I must be missing something. I'm in the Flatiron lovers group and despite the pic, I no longer have the Phoenix. I have to admit, between the ever-intiguing classifieds, the message boards and now these social groups, I'm finding the Cafe a bit demanding :-)
<"Who don't get what was special about him" How would you all describe that? To me, it didn't have as much to do with technique as with the fact that he seemed to bare his soul with every damn note that he played.> I think you described it pretty well. To me it's like blues guitar players. If it's too clean, it doesn't have the same appeal. Same with old-time fiddling. The best is always a little raw.
If you were in the Canadian Pickers group, we be represented "from sea to shining sea."
Oh all right, I'll do it, just to complete the coastal connection.
Going through some old papers, I came across something I'd prepared for a workshop I gave a few years ago on the mandolin of Bill Monroe. I tried scanning it, but it didn't come out very clearly. It's a tour through Monroe's mandolin style, beginning from the first session in 39/40, up to the end of the sixties. Obviously, there was more to come ("Master of Bluegrass" etc.) but I thought I'd stop there. If there's any interest, I could post the notes to this selection of songs. There are thirty-five in all. It would take a while, but I could add a few every day. These are all from commercially-released CD's (no bootleg tapes or anything like that) so I imagine most of us would have many, if not all, of these recordings. Here's the first three: 1. Tennessee Blues (1940) - Any Monroe retrospective has to begin with this tour-de-force from the very first recording session by the Bluegrass Boys. Notice there are no other breaks. Monroe plays the whole thing on mandolin and, as he does, lays the foundation for most of the bluegrass mandolinists who follow for abour the next thirty years. 2. Why Did You Wander (1946) - A gem from the first session with Flatt & Scruggs. Monroe is surging...rolling along with tremendous drive. He's clearly enjoying himself, playing a super-charged version of the Monroe Brothers style. 3. I'm Going Back To Old Kentucky (1947) - The alternate take from the Columbia boxed set. Monroe plays everything: leads, great backup, harmony lines with the fiddle and banjo. He's beginning to acquire the tremendous power in his playing that came out in the 1950's.
That would be very cool, thanks Mike.
4. Mighty Dark To Travel (1947) - as above. His mandolin is taking on a darker tone. He seems to play better and better with each new recording. 5. Bluegrass Breakdown (1947) - This is it, the first true bluegrass instrumental (i.e. the first one not based on a standard blues progression) The inspiration for Foggy Mtn. Breakdown and countless others. Monroe's playing speaks for itself. 6. New Muleskinner Blues (1950) - Monroe's remake of the song that began it all, the first on the played on the Grand Ol' Opry, is also the first recording where he plays fully in the style he's come to be known for. His notes are pinched and cut off short. He's using mostly downstrokes, playing very close to the bridge. It's a harder, sharper sound than the 46-47 recordings.
7. Rawhide (1951) - Monroe's signature tune. His playing is very hot, especially the second break, foreshadowing what may be his best recorded work ever, Whitehouse Blues. 8. Whitehouse Blues (1954) - The early 1950's saw a great leap forward in Monroe's playing. He's gained more power in his right hand and incredible speed and dexterity in his left. Compare Monroe's breaks here, especially the last two, with the second break on Rawhide. His tone, volume and overall sound have increased slightly, but significantly in this three-year period. 9. Travelin' Blues (1951) - From the Jimmie Rodgers tribute session. Monroe plays a loose, relaxed break that displays his mastery of rhythm, even while taking a solo.
Kinda slow here at work so I'll do a few more: 10. The Prisoner's Song (1951) - Monroe's first session without the Bluegrass Boys produced some pretty strange results. He responds to the unusual situation with a great vocal performance and blistering mandolin solo, intense and fiery as though he's trying to get as much of the bluegrass sound as possible into the session in his short opportunity. Although session players were occasionally used, Decca made only one more attempt to record Monroe without his band. 11. Ben Dewberry's Final Run (1951) - The second half of the Rodgers tribute was Decca's final attempt at matching Monroe with studio players. Again, not particularly successful but Monroe contributes a brilliant, loping solo that clearly shows him to be a blues palyer of the first degree. 12. Get On your Knees And Pray/Lord Protect My Soul (1951) - Some of Monroe's best playing over the years are his fills and turnarounds in the Bluegrass Boys' gospel quartets, often recorded with only guitar and mandolin as accompaniment. Here are two of the best examples of these short, terse but ultimately eloquent musical statements.
13. Get Up John (1953) Get Up John (1965) - Always a potent a potent number for Monroe, Get Up John is based on an older tune called Sleepy-Eyed John. Monroe's cross-tuned mandolin demands attention and his playing is ferocious. This was the first tune recorded after the devastating car accident that laid him up for most of 1953 and very nearly ended his life. The second version, from the Smithsonian reissues, was recorded live with Peter Rowan on guitar, at the New Jersey home of fiddler Tex Logan.
14. Let the Light Shine Down On Me (1955) - A good example of how Monroe's playing developed during the 50's. the relaxed, rolling style of the previous decade is still there, with some additional rhythmic synchopations. His backup work has now become the crucial element in maintaining the sound of the band throughout a myriad of personnel changes.
Still pretty slow, so time for one more. Hope this isn't boring you all to death. 15. Watermelon Hanging On The Vine/Roanoke/Brakeman's Blues/Close By/Bluegrass Stomp - These live performances from 1956 are some of the best illustrations of the strength and versatility of Monroe's playing. On Brakeman's Blues. Kentucky Waltz and Bluegrass Stomp, Edd Mayfield is the guitarist. His rhythm is particularly impressive, characterized by synchopated playing and extensive use of bass runs. Mayfield's work with the Bluegrass Boys represents the first major advance in bluegrass rhythm guitar since Lester Flatt joined the band in the mid-40's. On Close By, it's Monroe who contributes some incredible rhythm playing. Listen to the end of the second line in the fiddle break. He changes from a straight chop to a complicated pattern where he synchopates the "on" beat and then right back to the off beat chop. Also noteworthy is Monroe's moody, modal break following Don Reno's banjo extravaganza on Bluegrass Stomp.
I was at a festival out here last weekend and I saw something interesting. IMHO, many mandolin players today play like sissy's. There, I said it. Plinkety, plinkety plinkety...BAH! No feeling, power, aggressivness or emotion. Anyhow, one of the jams I was in there were a couple of the sissy types and then there was this gal. I'm telling you she attacked that Fern she had like the spirit of Big Mon was in her...made them others look like super sissy's. Try as they might, they couldn't match the power and feeling that gal put into her picking...I'm still smiling about that.
Favourite eras -- well, there are many, many high points but for me if I had to pick I would still end up with two, no way to choose between them: 1. Jimmy Martin-Rudy Lyle-Charlie Cline (or sometimes Vassar, Red Taylor, Gordon Terry). No one has mentioned Bluegrass Ramble, the very first Decca instrumental and his first cross-tuned piece. The singing with Martin is stunning, leading also to really bluesy breaks (Memories of Mother and Dad, Blue and Lonesome). The aforementioned WhiteHouse Blues. 2. Richard Greene-Peter Rowan-(Lamar Grier, not so important to the overall sound). Greene's versions of Soldier's Joy, Dusty Miller, Sally Goodin set off Mon's interpretation of these old tunes. This period also had Turkey in the Straw - perhaps Mon's finest straight interpretation of his beloved old-time fiddle tunes, with his "leaving the holes" approach to melody, at lightning speed. For singing, it's too bad that Rowan and Monroe fell out before they could record more duets, but Midnight on the Stormy Deep is good enough for me. And we have the live version of Walls of Time with Rowan's powerful guitar (maybe he listened a bit to Edd Mayfield).
16. Lord Lead Me On (1958) - Another first-rate example of Monroe's ability to say so much with so little. His tone is sharp, like glass breaking and every note is perfectly placed. More great singing and guitar-playing from Edd Mayfield.
17. Bluegrass, Part One (1960) - Also known as Bluegrass Twist, this is another of Monroe's blues numbers. However, this one has a special sound that arose from a problem with his mandolin at the time of the recording session. Apparently the thirteenth fret had come loose and one of the E strings was stuck momentarily underneath the fret, resulting in various harmonies as Monroe played that string. The odd effect is heard most clearly at the beginning of the second mandolin break, right after the fiddle solo. 18. I Have Found The Way (1962) - Similar to Let The Light Shine Down On Me, there are literally dozens of examples of Monroe playing in this smooth, relaxed style. It is bluegrass mandolin at it's very best.
19. Fire On The Mtn. (1964)/Kansas City Railroad Blues (1964) - These two numbers show how Monroe's mandolin sound changed during the 60's. He began moving his hand around, exploring the timbres and textures. Meanwhile his lead and rhythm playing became more integrated, to the point where he often abandoned the melody altogether in favour of exploring the tonal possibilities of his instrument. Listen to KCRB, where he produced a phase-shifter type of effect through the use of this technique.
20. Bluegrass Breakdown/Rawhide/Y'all Come (1964) - Comparing the first two tune with the originals, the change in Monroe's sound was obvious. By the 60's he was getting far more sound out of his instrument than in the ear part of of his career. His tag break on Y'all Come is an absolute stuner, similar to the kick-off to Roanoke.
Is that from the Mechanic's Hall recording? If so, yes, stunning. Mando-blasting in Monroe's finest fashion. I notice in his later works, like "Southern Flavor" and "Old Daingerfield" the tendency towards long open-string passages. On a couple of videos Bill can be seen shaking off the trigger finger in his left index, once in "Southern Flavor" and another "Sweet Blue-eyed Darlin'", I think from the instruction video with John Hartford. Talk about adaptations to life situations.
Mike, the performances I'm refering to are from the Smithsonian re-issue. The Mechanics Hall has some great stuff too, but I wanted to stick with commercially-released discs. Maybe the Mechanics Hall session has been released but it hadn't been back when I put this collection together.
21. What Would You Give In Exchange For Your Soul/Watson's Blues (1963) - Monroe's playing is comparatively delicate in this live performance with Doc Watson. As the sould instrumentalist, he displays a softer, more understated style than he does with the Bluegrass Boys.
22. Paddy On the Turnpike/Dusty Miller (1966) - From the first session with the Peter Rowan, Richard Greene, Lamar Grier band, here is Monroe at the height of his power and ability. It's difficult to imagine anyone getting more tone and volume out of a mandolin, especially at these tempos. These are bluegrass classics!
23. A Pretty Fair Maid In The Garden (1966) - Monroe's break, while not technically flawless is pure bluegrass. His choice of notes is perfect for bringing out the subtle nuances of the melody. An appreciation for the tone, timing and technique of this break is all one needs to understand Monroe's genius as a mandolinist. 24. The Dead March (1969)/Goin' Across The Sea (1989) - Monroe attributes these two tunes to his fiddling Uncle Pen.The first features an easy relaxed tempo that spotlights the tone of his mandolin. The second tune was recorded at Monroe's abandoned childhood home in Rosine, Kentucky, as part of the filming of the documentary High Lonesome. Well, that's it. As I said, I could have continued into the 70's/80's but the goal wasn't so much to be comprehensive as it was to feature examples of the different aspects of his playing and, by the time I reached the end of the 60's I felt that goal had been accomplished. The students at the workshop got a CD with these cuts on it, in this order. If you have these recordings, it's kind of fun to go through them in order and listen for the things mentioned in the notes. It's particularly useful for people who are just starting to get into Monroe and are a bit overwhelmed by his overall body of work.
Great stuff Mike, thanks. I've got all that stuff so I'm going back over it in this light. And, yes, the Mechanic's Hall show was released in the last year or so by Grisman.
Mandolirius, maybe you can shed light on the tune from High Lonesome that is played towards the end of the film...It's played from a tree-shaded stage in the key of B, and structurally atypical for Monroe, who typically used melodies launched from the FFcP chop chord. This was played using the long double stop as the launching platform. I couldn't snag it in the credits. There's a huge gap in my Monroe Appreciation between the late eighties and early 2000's, I'm afraid. I was involved in rock'n'roll. Wait a minute, let me rephrase that..."another genre that has the Mon Stamp on it"....
I once figured out the kick off for Chuck Berry's Johnny B Goode for a young student, it's a Monroe blues lick!
<Mandolirius, maybe you can shed light on the tune from High Lonesome that is played towards the end of the film...It's played from a tree-shaded stage in the key of B, and structurally atypical for Monroe, who typically used melodies launched from the FFcP chop chord. This was played using the long double stop as the launching platform. I couldn't snag it in the credits.> I haven't watched it in years but lately I've had a hankering to see it again. I have an old videotape copy. Now, if I can only remember what I did with my VCR.
Mike Br. are you referring to the closing number where it is set up to look like he is coming out of his old house. That would be I'm on My Way Back to the Old home. What tune came just before it? I'm searching thru the dvd now.
Hey, thanks for bringing up High, Lonesome, I just watched it again. I know I'm not talking Mon here, but couldn't the Osbornes sing! And how about Keith Whitley with Ralph doing Constant Sorrow and Bill ripping up Rawhide with Don Reno in the band. Wow, I'm glad I watched this again.
"Mike Br. are you referring to the closing number where it is set up to look like he is coming out of his old house" Nope. It's an instrumental. "couldn't the Osbornes sing!" Mighty syrupy harmonies in "Ruby"...and they're all laughing at the same time.
Ok, a few things: 1) Mandolirious, I'm really enjoying the notes, did I possibly miss a listing of all the (commercially available) CD's the tracks come from? I may have some already, but I'm trying to "dig a little deeper", as they say. Thanks in advance. 2) Any recommendations for a CD or box set that feature the Flatt & Scruggs BG Boys lineup? 3) Just a comment - looks like I need to get the "High Lonesome" DVD as well.
http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Bill...611621&sr=1-24 Here for the BG Boys from the Flatt and Scrugs era.
<Mandolirious, I'm really enjoying the notes, did I possibly miss a listing of all the (commercially available) CD's the tracks come from? I may have some already, but I'm trying to "dig a little deeper", as they say. Thanks in advance.> Marty, I didn't list the sources, mostly because the tracks are available in so many places. I got Tenn. Blues from a reissue on the RCA Heritage Series, a nice re-mastered version. The vinyl copies I had were pretty poor recordings. The 40's stuff is off the 2 CD Columbia Box Set (Columbia Country Classics) & 50's/60's stuff is all on the Bear Family box sets (4 Cd's for each decade). The only other source I used was the soundtrack from "High Lonesome" for Goin' Across The Sea. I forgot to mention the Smithsonian recordings too, where the '56 live stuff and the Doc Watson session come from. They are both "must haves" for any Monroe fan.
This was posted on the main list, perhaps a good example of the "final era" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI92oDdXazg
Mike, One of my favorite eras is presented in the "Blue Moon Of Kentucky" Bear Family Box set. It is between the Monroe Brothers and the "Birth of Bluegrass". I guess that'd be maybe 38 or 39 through the early 40's. "Nobody Loves Me" is a favorite of mine. I also love that early/mid 80's sound. "Master Of Blue Grass" is not just a fine mandolin album, is one of the finest albums I own. Nelson
