1. John Kelly
    John Kelly
    Ginny has asked me to check if this tune has already been posted on the SAW group, and after a search I found a thread back in 2010 in which I had mentioned it in answer to a request for a favourite Irish tune! As far as I can see it has not otherwise been posted, and certainly not under its own name, so here is a great version of this Irish classic from Ginny, played on mandolin, octave and guitar. I am not a player on this one - just the poster!

  2. Martin Jonas
    Martin Jonas
    That sounds fabulous -- thanks Ginny (and John for posting)! Carrickfergus is high on my list of songs to learn, with the Van Morrison/Chieftains version in particular coming to mind. I did record "The Water Is Wide" a few years ago, which is arguably a variant of the same song, although that arrangement didn't quite work out. I may give this a try as well, as I've just found a very nice lead sheet.

  3. Frithjof
    That’s an interesting version of a great tune, Ginny.
  4. Ginny Aitchison
    Ginny Aitchison
    Thank you John for posting this. One day I will learn where to put the song, convinced it must have been a SAW tune. Thank you for the comments. I was happy to use the octave on this one, it often hangs on the wall more than I would like. I see that David Hansen posted one 5 years ago, just noticed that now.
  5. David Hansen
    David Hansen
    That's very impressive Ginny, I had no idea you played guitar so well. I am also baffled that you said I posted a version here 5 years ago. I did a version in 2014 but it was mostly concertina & organ so I didn't post it here or so I thought. At any rate it does have some mandolin in it, so what the hell.

  6. Ginny Aitchison
    Ginny Aitchison
    Thanks David. It is the octave that is doing most of the melody, with the mando doing the same thing but at a lesser volume . Took me days to synchronize them. The guitarist is anonymous for anonymous reasons. I saw your version beside mine on YouTube..John had looked for a SAW entry but didn't find that's because you didn't post it here. Aha. Also I meant to say you posted it to YT - not MC. I assumed this song must have been a SAW at one time and I'm never good at hunting those down to put mine in the mix so I had asked John for assistance...but since there weren't any, he helped by posting it anyway. On YT they will put up similar videos on the right side..when you put up Eternal Friendship last week I got a few more views on mine because it was there as a "recommended for you' thanks for that. Glad you posted your version here too. I think we all like to hear each others renditions.
  7. Ginny Aitchison
    Ginny Aitchison
    Well - I had to delete my YouTube of Carrickfergus due to copyright violation..not just a warning..a not wanting to get in trouble I took it off. Thank you anyway..I enjoyed doing it. I may try and contact YT and see why and who wanted it off and whether I can still put it up.
  8. Martin Jonas
    Martin Jonas
    If they gave you a copyright strike for this video, that is very strange. Did the notice say it was for the composition, or did it concern the images you used?

    Getting a copyright notice is fairly common -- Youtube has lots of false content matches for traditional and classical tunes, mostly when they automatic system can't distinguish between the performance right of a commercial recording and the copyright on the composition. I regularly get them on popular classical tunes, even if they're hundreds of years old. If you're sure the tune is public domain, you can challenge the content match. I do it all the time, and have never had any comeback from a claimant. If they don't reply after 30 days, the copyright claim is dropped. No person is usually involved, it's an algorithm, so the first time anybody looks at it is when you challenge.

    However, normally these copyright matches simply amount to adverts being shown on the video, not to a takedown notice or copyright strike. Some copyright matches are of course fair enough -- I have them on two of the Richard Thompson songs I recorded recently, which of course are not public domain. The only consequence of this is that there are adverts shown and RT's publishing company (I hope) gets a few pennies of revenue from them.

    But if they gave you a copyright strike and blocked the video, that's more serious. You should still be able to challenge it the same way, but I don't know whether the procedure for doing so differs from the ones where they keep the video up, but with ads.

    As far as Carrickfergus is concerned, according to Wikipedia, the lyrics are anonymous and may in this form date from the 1960s, but the tune has been traced to the mid-18th century, so you should be alright.

  9. Ginny Aitchison
    Ginny Aitchison
    Thank you Martin. I have put in a inquiry and then I deleted the song. (out of fear?) I still have it on file so I can use it again if it turns out to be Ok - but have lost my views and comments. Thanks for the info, I appreciate it.
  10. Bertram Henze
    Bertram Henze
    Ginny, it's a shame these extortion scams can scare innocent musicians out of their videos. I would have liked to hear you play this tune. I have had the odd automatic claim now and then, but always countered it on the grounds of the tune being traditional.
    I dimly remember those warnings on record sleeves "home recording kills music", and I thought then and still think now that it's money that kills music.
  11. gortnamona
    fanastic , my mother stills sings this song at family get togethers ,Carrick is just down the road from us here.
  12. John Kelly
    John Kelly
    I am so sorry Ginny had to delete her video. It was a lovely arrangement and Carrickfergus holds strong memories for me. My band, The Old Bores, were over playing at a three-day music festival in Cairncastle (outside Larne) and we had a day trip to Carrickfergus as part of our stay and played for the Lady Mayor in the Town Hall at a civic reception. We did not play Carrickfergus, though we did play some other Irish music; we were there as a Scottish traditional band.
  13. Ginny Aitchison
    Ginny Aitchison
    Thank you all for your support. The YT help team has been very friendly and is looking into it. I did not get a strike - a conclusion I jumped to too early. It is a claim that it can't be shown in certain countries. I don't understand this, so I'll wait to hear back from YT support and hopefully try and re-post it at a later date depending on why it has that particular claim..will keep up the good fight and the good will at YouTube.
  14. Ginny Aitchison
    Ginny Aitchison

    Let's try this for the third time..I am SO sorry..Every time I upload it a different entity claims a copy right to it. I'm about to scream or cry, maybe both.
  15. Simon DS
    Simon DS
    Thanks Ginny and John, lovely calm and peaceful tune.
    Good luck with the Copyrighters.
    Did you find out, which were the different companies concerned?
  16. Bertram Henze
    Bertram Henze
    Ginny, if you withdraw and repost your video on YT, you'll only attract new algorithm matches. These are like poorly trained dogs in front yards barking at passers-by for no apparent reason. Leave your video where it is, ignore claim warnings, nothing else will happen. I had several trad tune videos on warning for months before I decided to try YT's clearing process (and it may have helped them to improve those algorithms, but was not really neccessary).
    Don't be scared of front yard dogs, just avoid their owners...
  17. Martin Jonas
    Martin Jonas
    Hi Ginny,

    As Bertram says, this is done by automatic matching using an algorithm, so these notices aren't actually generated by anybody actively claiming the copyright. The way to get rid of them is to use the dispute procedure. You can start a dispute by clicking on "copyright claim" in your list of videos, then "see details", "select action" and "dispute". You need to be sure that the song is in the public domain and provide details why you consider that this is the case. In this instance, a link to the Wikipedia entry attributing the tune to an 18th century Irish poet should be enough. I do it all the time -- they have one month time to respond but invariably do not and the claim therefore disappears after one month. I have done this dozens of times, for pieces that are obviously not copyrighted (e.g. Vivaldi compositions etc).

    In the meantime, here is my interpretation of Carrickfergus, in a rather more stripped down arrangement than yours. I'm playing it on mandolin with tenor guitar backing, using this setting by Klaus Stezenbach:

    Mid-Missouri M-0W mandolin
    Vintage Viaten tenor guitar (x2)

  18. Gelsenbury
    It's such a nice melody, isn't it? The versions here are very different, which is always interesting. Well played!
  19. John Kelly
    John Kelly
    For some reason the thread I posted with this tune (separate from Ginny's here) seems to have vanished from this group, so here again is the version I recorded on harmonica, mandolin and guitar. Maybe one of the moderators removed the thread to avoid confusion? I notice too that David Hansen has removed his recent posting. Carrickfergus seems to have developed a life of its own with versions disappearing, being withdrawn, or in Ginny's case being reposted for a third time because of copyright claims!

    Interesting that Martin's version is in 6/8 time rather than the 4/4 that both Ginny and I have used. It gives the tune a whole different feel.

  20. Martin Jonas
    Martin Jonas
    Thanks, John. Very nice playing on yours, too! You're right, the 6/8 in my version gives a very different feel to your and Ginny's 4/4. The 6/8 version is I think more or less how Van Morrison sang it with The Chieftains, or at least that was what I was humming in my head while playing. I've been comparing a few versions online. As far as I can tell, there are versions in 4/4 (Loudon Wainwright, Charlotte Church), in 3/4 (Dubliners) and 6/8 (Clancies, Van Morrison, Allison Moorer with Aly Bain). Not always easy to tell as there isn't a very strong pulse to some renditions. Most surprising version was by a very drunk Peter O'Toole and Richard Harris here -- not necessarily particularly musical but definitely heartfelt, and with a claim to the greatest authenticity of them all: Peter O'Toole gave the song to Dominic Behan who was the very first to record it. I wouldn't want to be too definite on what time signature they used, though...

  21. Ginny Aitchison
    Ginny Aitchison
    I enjoyed the different versions of this tune - there must be many. John and I tried this together years ago but our versions were so different it never went anywhere. My sheet music and back track were from my original teacher, not the one I have now - who would have done a better job if we didn't already have a bunch of things on the go. Martin, the copy right 'claimants' all came back as CMK or something like someone somewhere recorded this, put it on a record, copy righted it and as you say the computer generates the claim. I have never disputed one until now and it was such a hassle I'm not sure I'd do it again. I changed the music up on the last one and although I preferred the first one, this one seemed to work. Glad everyone picked up this song, it's nice to hear it.
  22. Martin Jonas
    Martin Jonas
    No mandolin content, but here is an interesting treatment of this tune. It's a translation of Carrickfergus into Kölsch (Cologne dialect) by Gerd Köster & Frank Hocker, re-titled "Dousend Johr" ("A Thousand Years").

    Gerd Köster became a cult singer in Cologne thirty years ago with the band "The Piano Has Been Drinking", singing Tom Waits songs to new Kölsch lyrics, and although this song is much more recent, it is pretty much in that style. Strangely enough it works well and is very moving. Not sure how it comes across to somebody who doesn't understand Kölsch. I'm a Cologne native so I'm fine with it, but Germans from other regions may not get all the words.

  23. Bertram Henze
    Bertram Henze
    Not sure how it comes across to somebody who doesn't understand Kölsch.

    De Zoch kütt. To me, it is the language of carnival, of trivial merriment and flying sweets, probably because that's what Cologne is famous for. And if you never hear the language in other contexts, that connection is hard-wired in your mind. Strange to hear a sad song in it, a bit like Willy Millowitsch singing inside the Dublin GPO during the Easter rising.

    But I am ready to admit that the Cologne mindset may just not fit into my head. It must be a social thing you have to be born in to understand.
  24. John Kelly
    John Kelly
    As someone with no grasp of the German language, I found the performance really caught my attention, Martin and Bertram. The singer has a memorable voice and I enjoyed the backing and especially the guy playing slide guitar.

    This is another fine example of how well music can transcend national boundaries and reach out to something that all humans, irrespective of nationality or race, have within their individual personas.
  25. Gelsenbury
    Cologne / Köln is a great city! I don't understand all of the dialect, but from what I recognise it seems to be a very faithful translation of the English lyrics.
  26. Martin Jonas
    Martin Jonas
    Thanks, John/Bertram/Dennis.

    Bertram: All down to cultural context. There are plenty of Cologne natives who don't like the Carnival association of Kölsch. Wolfgang Niedecken of BAP (the most commercially successful German-language band of all times, despite singing in Kölsch) even wrote a song about that, Nit für Kooche, an anti-carnival hymn.

    John: The slide guitar player is Frank Hocker, the co-leader of the band. They perform generally as either a duo or trio (with Helmut Krumminga, formerly of BAP -- the other acoustic guitar player in the video), but expand to a full band for the occasional showpiece concert. Their version of Carrickfergus was originally from the reportoire of their previous band, "The Piano Has Been Drinking": here is a 1993 live version which is a bit rockier (with audience singalong).

    Köster is a great singer and raconteur and a very charismatic personality in general - a lot more depth than Niedecken, and a lot less in thrall of his own legend. The Piano Has Been Drinking were a great band, and he has also released various spoken-word and cabaret performances. Probably of limited interest for non-natives, but during the lockdown period earlier this year, he released daily videos on his Youtube channel with poetry and prose readings in Kölsch as well as high German. Fifty videos in total, with lots of gems, even for Bertram... Also on the channel are full length concert videos by Köster & Hocker from 2017 and by The Piano Has Been Drinking from 1993.

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