Week #142 ~ The Good Natured Man

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  1. Barbara Shultz
    Barbara Shultz
    This week's winner was The Good Natured Man, which was submitted as an Irish Traditional (IT) hornpipe. I'm not familiar with this tune.

    I found several sites with notation; all similar, with little variations:

    This was on Chris Peterson's site CPMusic.com

    This was on abcnotation.com from John Chamber's ABC

    This was on abcnotation.com from The Northern Virginia Irish Sessions

    This is transcription of how it is in O'Neill's, from oldmusic.com
  2. Eddie Sheehy
    I got this off THESESSION.ORG:

    X: 1
    T: Goodnatured Man, The
    M: 4/4
    L: 1/8
    R: hornpipe
    K: Gmaj
    (3def|:g2 bg d2 gd|BcdB G2 AB|cded cBAG|
    |(3FGF EF D2 ef|g2 bg d2 gd|BcdB GBAB|
    cedc BGAF||1 DGGF G2 (3def:|2 DGGF GABc||
    |:dcdB gfgd|e^dec a^gae|~f3 e dfaf|
    gage de (3fed|g2 bg d2 gd|BcdB GBAB|
    cedc BAGF|1 AGGF GABc:|2 AGGF G2 (3def||
  3. SMH
    SMH
    Here is a link from the Trad Music Library for the tab and notation.

    http://www.traditionalmusic.co.uk/fo...atured_man.htm
  4. David Hansen
    David Hansen
    I learned this tune on the box from the playing of Brian McNeill many many years ago and I learned it on the mandolin this afternoon. It's easier when it's been in your head for that long.

  5. OneFineBob
    OneFineBob
    David....so nice and relaxed! Well done!

    I have a question for all - as a new reader of mandolin notation, what does the ~ signify that I do? I know it's an ornamentation, but what exactly is it suggesting I do?
  6. Barbara Shultz
    Barbara Shultz
    David, that was perfect! I don't suppose you have the abc for something similar to what you are doing? I like your B part... but it's a bugger to figure out by ear!

    OneFineBob... hopefully someone more knowledgeable will answer that question. I *think* that if this were notation for a fiddle, then it would mean to do an ornamentation consisting of 5 notes (I think a whistle or flute would do that, too), in the space of the note noted. But, I think that instruments that do triplet ornaments (like a tenor banjo or mandolin), it indicates a triplet. I have learned that an ornamental triplet is usually where you take a quarter note, and turn it into a triplet. It throws me off when I come across notation with the "~" over a dotted quarter note. To make that work, I have to think of that dotted quarter note as a quarter note and an eighth note, and then turn the quarter note into a triplet. If you take one of the abc's from above (for example, John Chamber's one). In the first full measure of the B part, play it with all eighth notes (3 eighth notes instead of the dotted quarter) and count it 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &. You'll note that the dotted quarter note takes up counts "3 & 4". Then, turn the "3 &" part of that note, into a triplet (3 & uh). Your pick direction for that would be D U D U DUD D U (1 & 2 & 3&uh 4 &).

    That's what I would do. But I could be all wrong, too!
  7. David Hansen
    David Hansen
    Here's the abcs for what I'm playing:

    X:1
    T:Good Natured Man
    C:Traditional
    M:4/4
    L:1/8
    R:Hornpipe
    K:G
    d2||:g2bgd2gd|BcdBG2AB|cded cBAG|F2E2D2d2|g2bgd2gd|BcdBG2AB|
    cedc BAGB|ADEF G2:||Bc||:dedB gagf|efec abag|fgfd gfge|fgaf defd|g2bgd2gd|BcdBG2AB| cedc BAGB|ADEF G2:||
  8. mculliton123
    mculliton123
  9. maudlin mandolin
    maudlin mandolin
    Great stuff as usual David. Here is the O,Neil version unsyncopated on a Savannah.

    [YOUTUBE=WhzYNbKCANg]
  10. maudlin mandolin
    maudlin mandolin
    Whoops

  11. Toycona
    Toycona
    Good job, Maud, and thanks to Mculliton for providing the tabs.
  12. Barbara Shultz
    Barbara Shultz
    David.... Thanks!!! How about the chords you used?
  13. David Hansen
    David Hansen
    Here's a Finale file with chords:

    http://www.box.com/s/vhus0thdypvdgqdo31fe
  14. Francis J
    Francis J
    Here's my first effort folks. A tune I've heard lots of times before but never played it much, so here goes:-
  15. Barbara Shultz
    Barbara Shultz
    Francis... I don't see anything but a blank white box. It may be a problem on my end... can anyone else see his video?
  16. Francis J
    Francis J
  17. Francis J
    Francis J
  18. Barbara Shultz
    Barbara Shultz
    Francis, that was a great first video! Welcome to the group. Tell us about yourself and your mando!
  19. Francis J
    Francis J
    Thanks Barbara, The mandolin is a Joe Foley (Dublin), not shown at it's best here because of a hasty microphone set up! Anyhow, I'm looking forward to doing some more videos, hopefully with a bit of backing Guitar to cover up the near misses
  20. GKWilson
    GKWilson
    Very nice Francis. And welcome.
  21. Eddie Sheehy
    Barbara tilde (~) over a dotted quarter note is played as either a 1/8 note and a triplet or a triplet and a 1/8 note (played in the space of - 3 1/8 notes as Bob says it would be a 'roll' on a flute/tinwhistle and probably a 'grip' on a bagpipe. In this tune a triplet followed by a 1/8 note works best.
  22. Martin Jonas
    Martin Jonas
    I've just managed to get a quick-and-dirty run-through of this tune recorded on tenor guitar (rhythm) and the Ajr (melody). Rather rough playing in the B part -- a few duff notes and sloppy triplets. I'm likely to be very busy for the foreseeable -- we're starting building works in the house for the next three months or so that will make it hard to record anything at all -- and so I was keen to get at least one of the SAW tunes done before the "hot" phase of building starts. If I manage to get a bit more playing time this weekend, I may try to get a smoother version down.

    Audio-only this week:

    MP3

    Martin
  23. neil argonaut
    neil argonaut
    Was glad to see this finally win the poll as I've been practicing it since it nearly won a few weeks back.
    Been enjoying the videos (and audio) so far; welcome to the group Francis;

    I managed to pick up a second hand Bouzouki and a second hand K&K Silver bullet mic this week So been putting them to use; Sorry the video sticks a bit (and cos of this I couldn't sync it up well) but after that I can't afford a computer upgrade.
  24. Martin Jonas
    Martin Jonas
    That sounds very nice, Neil, particularly the triplets. I was thinking of laying down a bouzouki rhythm myself (in fact had already recorded it), but chickened out and went for the less strident tenor guitar backing. I now wish I hadn't, because I like the contrast between your super-smooth picking and the drone quality of the zouk.

    Anyway, I have just taken the MP3 I had posted yesterday and put it on Youtube for ease-of-access, with a minimalist slideshow just with a couple of pictures of the instruments. If you've already heard my MP3, this adds nothing new:



    Martin
  25. Chris Hasty
    Chris Hasty
    I would agree with Eddie about the ~ in ABC notation. When I first started playing this style of music I thought of in terms of piano notation and first assumed it was a Turn. However, as I got deeper into the music I'm about 99% sure it most closely resembles a Mordent. Realistically, I guess either term might be applied depending on the tune itself and the tempo it's played at.

    A Turn is similar to a roll where you play quick notes a semitone above and below the note written as ornamentation. Sort of an up back down back sort of thing, very fiddle or pipe centric I guess. A Mordent is essentially the note played as a triplet like Eddie described, although the pitch usually goes either up or down a semitone when playing piano (not really something we do with our triplets in this music thankfully- that would be incredibly difficult!).

    Not exact definitions or exact transcription of technique, but close enough to understand it I hope. It's been a while since I've thought of them in exact terms! Hopefully I'm not too far off in the descriptions.
  26. Barbara Shultz
    Barbara Shultz
    Surprise! I found the time to record David's version, once through, on my Weber Bridger A mandolin.

    After creating a decent video in iMovie, and uploading it the way I have done from the beginning, and then coming back later, to find that the YouTube version is pretty crappy; at least when I view it, in either Safari or Firefox. But, people have already viewed and commented, so I'm just going to leave it up there.

    Then, I remembered that the last time I had time to submit a video, I ran into the same problem. Had several people make suggestions, and I see that my last video I submitted, I ran it through something free to change the format (it's coming back to me in a fog....), but that left a watermark on the video. I could buy a program that would change the format, but I just walked away from the problem, and forgot all about it until just now!

    I just can't understand what has happened, either with my computer, or what, that makes my videos turn out so crappy on YouTube, when I am doing it the same way I always did!

    Anyway, here it is!

  27. AaronVW
    AaronVW
    Great sound, Neil! That mic and the zouk accompaniment sound great.
  28. dae
    dae
    These two vids give an idea how to produce an Irish roll (the ~) on a fiddle.
    If you hear it on a fiddle, it may help you to get that sound/rhythm on the mandolin.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW0U_B9j5Cc
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4_Vf3rWmH0
  29. laura809
    laura809
    Nice work everyone. Neil, I enjoyed your full arrangement. Martin, thanks for converting your mp3 to a video so that it was easier to hear. The old Gibson makes a fine backdrop. Is that what you were playing in the mp3? Barbara, your performance still comes through despite the video trouble. Great job! Usually when you export or upload directly to youtube there are settings for movie size. The smaller the size, the more compressed it is, making you more likely to have quality issues.
  30. laura809
    laura809
  31. Mike Romkey
    Mike Romkey
    The B part on this is kind of a handful!

  32. Toycona
    Toycona
    Good job, all!
  33. OldSausage
    OldSausage
    Excellent work from all - interesting how everyone has their own rhythm for this. I don't always do IT tunes, and I even more rarely do them without backing, yet here I am, being a good-natured fellow:

  34. Manfred Hacker
    Manfred Hacker
    Thanks for all the great examples.
    I have chosen to play the triplet-heavy first version listed above (Chris Peterson's site):

  35. Barbara Shultz
    Barbara Shultz
    This is the same video that YouTube screwed up a million different ways. As per Michael Pastucha's suggestion, I joined Vimeo, and tried uploading the video there. After tweaking the settings that they suggested, here it is. Since IT is not screwy, one would assume that the problem I was having was not with my computer, my internet, or my iMovie! It was with You Tube!!!!

  36. OldSausage
    OldSausage
    That's much better Barbara - looks and sounds great
  37. Michael Pastucha
    Michael Pastucha
    Actually, David proposed the vimeo solution first. I just agreed. Very nicely played. All we need now is to see you recording again in your PJs and all will be right with the world...
  38. Barbara Shultz
    Barbara Shultz
    Haha! I seem to be most 'creative' when I'm in those polka dotted jammies!!! I want to record this tune again, the Chris Peterson version, as I'm real fond of it, too! Now, just to find the time!
  39. Toycona
    Toycona
    Good Job. I'll have a version of this ready in a day or two. Hopefully not as rhthm challenged as some of my other recordings.
  40. Francis J
    Francis J
    Great versions everybody! OS, for a man who doesn't dabble in IT too much, you really captured the mood on this one.
  41. OldSausage
    OldSausage
    Thanks very much Francis!
  42. Barbara Shultz
    Barbara Shultz
    Here is my video of the Chris Peterson version (like Manfred's). I'm playing my Weber Bridger A mandolin. I didn't mess around with You Tube; let's see if this vimeo upload was successfull!

  43. Loretta Callahan
    Loretta Callahan
    Great and upbeat tune. Everybody buttoned it down beautifully. I'm delighted to see Barb's "return to flannel"!
  44. Jill McAuley
    Jill McAuley
    Great versions everyone - well done to you all!
  45. Barbara Shultz
    Barbara Shultz
    In response to OldSausage's remark on the different rhythm...

    I like my hornpipes, and I likes 'em 'hornpipey'!!! All these notations are in straight eighth notes, and when played 'as written', hornpipes sound more like reels. In order to make them 'hornpipey', the actual tune is played with dotted eighths, but since that's a pain when transcribing, they are usually notated with straight eighths, and a note made "rhythm: Hornpipe". In order to keep that 'hornpipey' feel, with the dotted rhythm, most hornpipes are played a bit slower than reels, which you can speed up as far as your own skill will allow! But, as you speed up a hornpipe, you lose that dotted feel.

    At least, that's my take on the different rhythm observation!
  46. Barbara Shultz
    Barbara Shultz
    Here's a quick demo of what I was trying to explain in words!

  47. Mike O'Connell
    Mike O'Connell
    An observation and question on Barbara's "Hornpipey" comment. I too like the swing or bounce of the Hornpipe. My problem is (or is it a problem?), when I play reels I add that same "Hornpipey" rhythm. It sounds good to me. I just went through my 3-ring binder and reviewed all the reels and hornpipes that I can play at various levels of proficiency. Here are my findings: I play all the hornpipes with the "Hornpipey" bounce except one - Staten Island. I play approximately 60 per cent of the reels with a bounce. So far my only audience is me and occasionally you. Should I try harder to play reels as written or is a "Hornpipey" Reel acceptable?
  48. Bertram Henze
    Bertram Henze
    Mike, that's all left at your own discretion as long as you play alone. In a session, however, you'll find that they play all the reels at a tempo where your dotted notes get ironed out, like Barb mentioned. Then, it is not neccessary to play them as written, just to play them as heard.

    Loretta, I searched thesession.org and the O'Neill's collection but couldn't find "Return to Flannel"
  49. Mike O'Connell
    Mike O'Connell
    Bertram - Thanks for your comment. I can see that at some future point in time I need to get out of my comfort zone and visit a session or two. I'm sure the exposure will only help answer the many recurring questions that keep popping up in my mind. Thanks again.
  50. Redmando
    Redmando
    I learned this tune (or a simpler version of it) as "the Steamboat"
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