Vega Tenor Banjo question

  1. jordandvm
    jordandvm
    Hi all,

    Currently I'm a playing a vintage 17 fret open backed TB from a friend who has graciously loaned it to me. It has no identifying name but has a good sound. The owner put nylon strings on the E and A strings because he says they sound better than the metal strings. He has loaned it to me indefinitely because it is his backup TB.

    In the mean time, I've found a vintage 17 fret TB in good shape for sale locally at a music store. It has Vega Style "N" stamped on the wood rod and the serial number
    66836. It has 26 brackets. From research I've done online, I've found it was manufactured in 1925 and is not a "Little Wonder". The "N" Styles were the low end of the Vega line and were more affordable than other Vega models. What bothers me is there is no identifying "Vega" on the head, which I would expect if it is the original neck and head. And yet it looks like it has the original head and neck.

    Is it common for some of the "N" Style Vegas not have the name on the head??

    I would appreciate it if someone could answer my question.

    Thanks,

    Jim
  2. Shelagh Moore
    Shelagh Moore
    On the headstock? I had a Vega style N 17 fret some time ago and it just had a star on the headstock. Vega style N was marked on the perch pole but not on the inside of the pot if my memory serves me right.
  3. Jill McAuley
    Jill McAuley
    Some of the lower end Vega models had no "Vega" or any other inlay on the headstock - here's an example:

    Style F: http://bernunzio.com/products/1016060

    There's also a Little Wonder at Gruhn's right now with no inlay of any kind.
  4. jordandvm
    jordandvm
    Thanks Richard & Jill,

    That's right, there's nothing on the headstock on this one. Thanks for the link to the pics Jill. That's good to know that Vega didn't ornament the headstock on some of their models. So it looks like the real thing to me and not a fake. Now I have to convince myself it sounds better than the one I'm currently playing, which is temporarily borrowed. I really want my own now and thought this might be the answer. The store even put some new strings on this one for me to see if it would sound better. I'll have to go down and try it again. The price is right...$300, but will have to put on some new tuners for about $50.

    Jim
  5. AnneFlies
    AnneFlies
    I just bought a 1923 Vega Style F TB, open back, and it's got nothing on the headstock. I think it originally had a back because there's some holes on the side of the rim, but it's missing. It is stamped on the inside rim and the dowel with a serial number and "Made by The Vega Company, Boston Mass USA, Style F" and two little Vega stars. Serial #56688. This should be fun!
  6. jordandvm
    jordandvm
    Congrats Anne!

    OK, I just bought the Vega! It's in great shape and for only $275. Now, I need to change out the original geared tuners. They're tough to adjust the strings. The store recommended Schaller (4 to 1) tuners for $115 plus they'll need to enlarge the holes in the headstock to accomodate the larger tuners. They also have some other tuners for about $50, which also require hole enlargement. Is there that much difference in tuners? What tuners would you recommend I put on this Vega?

    Thanks,

    Jim
  7. Shelagh Moore
    Shelagh Moore
    Hi Jim,

    Are you keeping the original geared tuners if you replace them? If not, I might be interested in them to refurbish and use.

    Richard
  8. jordandvm
    jordandvm
    Richard,

    I don't know yet. Since I'm new to this TB owning business, Before I do anything to it, I'm getting an opinion on the instrument from the friend who initially loaned me his backup TB for 6 months. I'll let you know.

    Thanks,

    Jim
  9. Jill McAuley
    Jill McAuley
    Jim are you sure the original tuners were geared? Just kinda surprising that a lower end Vega would have geared tuners and not friction ones.

    I swapped out the friction tuners on both my Style M and my Triple X for small shaft planetary ones that I ordered from Bob Smakula - they cost about $90 but were well worth it as they have a very small "footprint" so there wasn't a lot of reaming out needed of the existing holes. Here's a link, just scroll down a bit:

    Small shaft planetary tuners
  10. mikeyes
    mikeyes
    I second the small shaft tuners, they require that you ream out (not drill!!) a small hole which should be done carefully or have a luthier do it. Carefully ream the top and bottom of the peghead until the shaft just fits. Take a file and take out the little hourglass waist that is in the middle of the hole and you have enough room for the tuner shafts without too much damage to the banjo.

    They are great tuners. You can get a plumbers reamer and small round file at Home Depot.
  11. jordandvm
    jordandvm
    Thanks Jill & Mike,

    I just got off the phone after placing an order with Bob Smakula for the small shaft tuners. Even though this is a low end Vega TB, it should make it more fun to play. I plan on keeping the original vintage knobs to put on the small shaft tuners.
    I'll let you know how it plays after they're installed!

    Cheers,

    Jim
  12. Jill McAuley
    Jill McAuley
    Ah, great stuff - I have the old vintage buttons on my new small shaft tuners on the Triple X and it's a real nice touch I think. And low end or not, that Vega you've got is a good solid banjo - you're going to get loads of mileage and enjoyment out of that and those lovely small shaft tuners will make it all the nicer!
  13. AnneFlies
    AnneFlies
    Jordandvm, that's what I'm planning on doing, also. I put new strings on, tuned it, and by the time I got to the 4th string, the first one was out again - very frustrating! New tuners, old knobs. Stew-Mac has some they produce themselves - Five Star, I think, for about $75/set of 4. I'm also adding an armrest & strap.
  14. jordandvm
    jordandvm
    Anne, Jill & Mike,

    OK, I've got the Small Shaft Planetary tuners installed now. They're very nice! I tried to put the vintage buttons on, but they wouldn't quite fit over the shaft of the new tuners. Plus the new tuner screws are shorter. Did you have to file down inside the buttons to make them fit on the new tuners? What adjustments do you have to make to get the vintage buttons to fit? I put nylon guitar strings (2nd & 3rd) on the E and A strings, and .32 & .46 bronze wound strings on the D & G strings. I'm trying the nylons to see if I can get a less "tinny" sound. I've also stuck a sock up under the pot to dampen the sound some. I'm still not quite happy with the sound, so will have to try other changes to see if I can improve the sound.

    Jim
  15. Jill McAuley
    Jill McAuley
    Not sure if any filing of the vintage buttons had to happen as I had a luthier I know do the work for me. - regarding the sound: what type of head do you have on the banjo right now?
  16. jordandvm
    jordandvm
    The head is a Jos Rogers Jr. calfskin, probably the original. It's in great shape! I haven't tried adjusting the tension yet. I have a friend who has a device that can adjust all the nuts to the same pressure. I may borrow it to see if that makes a difference.
    Also, I'll post a video to let you listen to the sound and give me your impression.

    Thanks,

    Jim
  17. jordandvm
    jordandvm
    Here's my first video with my 1925 Style N Vega 17 fret tenor banjo with new small diameter tuners. It's "Lord Inchiquin", which I recently learned. I have nickel wound strings on the G & D strings, that I don't know what the gauges are, since the luthier didn't specify when he put them on. I know they need to be a larger gauge. The E and A strings are nylon.



    Jim
  18. Jill McAuley
    Jill McAuley
    If it was me I'd ditch the nylon strings, it's kind of uneven sounding with them on it. Just my tuppence worth.
  19. John Kelly
    John Kelly
    Jim, as Jill says, the nylon strings do not really go with the nickel-wound pair and the sound is a bit too damped for my taste - you might consider taking the sock out of the pot as it too is adding to the muffled sound. Have you had the head tension checked? Again, to my mind, it is contributing to the lack of percussive tone I would be aiming for, but of course this is just a personal feeling about what sound I like. It looks a very playable instrument.
  20. jordandvm
    jordandvm
    Good suggestions from you both.
    I've only played two TB's in my life, the one I borrowed for 6 months, and the Vega I just bought. So I don't have a lot to compare with. The one I borrowed had nylon strings on it, and I thought sounded pretty good. The person I borrowed it from said someone (he trusted who knew TBs) told him the nylons would sound better. So I asked to the luthier to put them on the Vega as a trial. I have an order in for some J80 d'Addario OM strings from Elderly Instruments. I'll give those a try. I'll also adjust the head tension by borrowing my friend's tension adjuster instrument.

    Thanks for all the help!

    Jim
  21. John Kelly
    John Kelly
    Jim,
    If you are going to have a go at adjusting the head tension yourself I'd suggest that you use the tried and tested method of adjusting by tensioning one screw then going to the diametric opposite and doing that one, then move round one, tension and go to the diametric opposite of it and so on round the rim. This way you avoid stress building up at one side as you tighten the head. Do my instructions make sense?
    I too have a Vega, a 1928 model I refurbished and refretted myself as you will maybe know from other postings on this group and I have a few YouTube clips over on the SAW group featuring this instrument - this will give you an idea of the sort of tone I am aiming for. Other tunes with the banjo can be got from YouTube by looking for my Channel under the heading of TheOldBores.
    Good luck with your ventures and your playing.
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