Country and Grass - Do They Mix?

[AlanN]

The recent AJ thread got me thinking on this, and maybe parts were touched on, but I'd be curious to hear of any examples where this could work. And if you think it's beating a dead horse, feel free to ignore.

The Osbornes of course touched on country stuff in their day, but that was more of widening of the band instrumentation for perhaps commercial gain and radio play.

Jimmy Martin surely comes to mind.

And Ricky Skaggs has done some of this - think Hwy 40 Blues -, but to my ears, that was more of a country thing with banjo and mandolin (a *very* tasty mandolin solo, btw.)

The Lost & Found put out a CD called A Ride Through The Country. Done up, of course, with all acoustic bluegrass instruments, this recording is a gem. Mostly classic country numbers, the band at the time was blessed with lead vocalist Barry Berrier, he of the low-down, deep country voice. Banjo and mandolin were low-key, no breakdowns or hot picking, just supportive laid-back half-breaks and such. Bluegrass Unlimited gave it a huge Thumbs-Up, as I recall.

Aubrey Haynie, on one of his solo works, has a vocalist sing a solo number called Can I Get An Amen, in a very country-fied voice. Again, this works splendidly, as the guy sings it low and plaintive, with low-key backing. And no mistaking it for grass, yet it has country appeal.

My point is I feel a supportive band can back a country-tinged vocalist to create a rather unique mix of both things - bluegrass with a country feel (as opposed to the flip side). After all, they are kissin cousins...

[FLATROCK HILL]

My point is I feel a supportive band can back a country-tinged vocalist to create a rather unique mix of both things - bluegrass with a country feel (as opposed to the flip side). After all, they are kissin cousins...

I agree 100%. I grew up on (what I call) traditional 'country-music' and love it. I was also exposed to bluegrass from an early age and have learned to love and appreciate it as well. The mixing of the two has resulted, and can continue to result in some really great stuff.

(Not to start another AJ brawl, but this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YddWNLOT2JY is a good example in my book)

The resulting "unique mix" may (will) not please the purists on either side. That's ok too. The pure stuff will still exist.

[doc holiday]

Red Allen comes to mind. & there is more than one George Jones song that would sound fine bluegrass style

[allenhopkins]

Jim & Jesse did some "country" recordings, including one of Chuck Berry songs (there's an odd country/rock/bluegrass fusion), but those weren't their strongest work, IMHO.

Lotsa country singers have made single bluegrass recordings -- Patty Loveless, Tom T. Hall, Skeeter Davis, Dolly Parton et. al. -- with varied success.

[grassrootphilosopher]

http://www.amazon.com/The-Blue-Grass-Boys-Mechanics/dp/B0002WZSOO
"Love´s Gonna Live Here"

or

http://www.amazon.com/Treasures-Untold-Mike-Auldridge/dp/B000000F1A/ref=sr_1_3?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1381248531&sr=1-3&keywords=mike+auldridge
"Driving Nails In My Coffin"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkXJ2FTAZC4
"Another Town" by Tom T. Hall, lead singer with a low voice and now a country music "sideman".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=so2oQ9iuCFs
"Hickory Wind" (made popular by the Birds on the "Sweetheart of the Rodeo" LP) sung by a major country singer


I think that when Bill Monroe´s daughter is allowed to sing a country song together with a bluegrass band... Where´s the problem?

Musically the sky is the limit. If we allow Newgrass, Spacegrass, Dawg Music, Klezmergrass (in the way of Andy Statman), Jazzgrass (Mike Marshal), Thile-Music (whatever you may call pop-music played by a bluegrass band) and so forth, why should there be any reluctance to let country musicians play bluegrass also?

The other day I watched a youtube clip of Roger Blackmore play his licks on an acoustic guitar. Why not hard rock on bluegrass instruments.

I think that there is a fear that country artists will either water down bluegrass music - in the way the Nashville sound watered down early country music - or that it will give bluegrass a hick image.

In Germany it seems to me that the majority of German bluegrass musicians have a strong bias against country music. They do not want to be identified with the country image that they see as truck drivers, rhinestone cowboys etc. that they think drink beer all the time and listen to uninteligent music. Given the history of country music I find this kind of (German) viewpoint very shortsighted.

The aforementioned examples involve bluegrass musicians that went country as well as country songs done in bluegrass style. In another thread I asked where would you draw the line? I did not get an answer. What makes a bluegrass singer? What makes a bluegrass song.

[Herbm55]

The recent AJ thread got me thinking on this, and maybe parts were touched on, but I'd be curious to hear of any examples where this could work.....After all, they are kissin cousins...

I've enjoyed Patty Loveless projects where country and bluegrass seem to mix well, "Mountain Soul 2" comes to mind. The recent Dierks Bentley CD mixes country and bluegrass much better than I expected. I'm sure opinions vary. :) In fact, it seems like DB might be as good or better at bluegrass than AJ. Time for some popcorn.....


http://youtu.be/jXtL4eTmra4

[AlanN]

Some cogent examples given, thanks. I had forgotten about Dobro man Mike, obviously a proponent of that sound. Dolly, J&J, too. Reno and Smiley were in that ball park, also.

I guess I go back to a Bill Monroe quote, where he was asked about 'hot mandolin styles' in bluegrass. He was ok with it, as long as it 'didn't override the bluegrass'. That would be my thing with a country influx, too.

[grassrootphilosopher]

why not add this: http://www.allmusic.com/album/big-mon-the-songs-of-bill-monroe-mw0000962085

Bruce Hornsby, the Dixie Chicks, Patty Loveless, Charlie Daniels, John Fogerty, Steve Wariner and let´s not forget one of the leading country music back up vocal bands the Whites...

I don´t think that you could just limit the opinion to "a country musician" singing a song backed by a bluegrass band. That sounds like the singer sticks out like a sore thumb. The examples that are being mentioned here show that the singers are not subpar (though I think that Del and the boys are doing the vocals better than Dierks Bentley; still enjoyable).

[grassrootphilosopher]

...ok with it, as long as it 'didn't override the bluegrass'.

Well said!

[M.Marmot]

I'll admit, right from the off, that i don't understand the seemingly constant need for Bluegrass fans to point out just what, in their opinion, counts as true Bluegrass.

I also don't understand the 'us versus them' refrain that often flares up in the Bluegrass threads here or the need for exclusionist policies... but that's passion for you - it often goes beyond explanation.

In the terms of the current thread i'd like to offer up Steve Earle's 'The Mountain' which he recorded with the Del McCoury band and also The Steeldrivers who now that it think on it would not be too far away from the sound of the Mountain.

I don't know for sure if they count for this topic, but there you have it.

By the by, i have seen The Mountain bring quite a few people around to appreciating Bluegrass.

[Willie Poole]

In my band we play quite a few of the traditional country songs, they seem to fit but I am not sure any of this "modern" country music would fit into bluegrass...

As far as a singer having a country or bluegrass voice Charlie Waller recorded a whole album of country type songs without a banjo just so he might get an invite to the Grand Ole Opry, which he did get, but they showed up with the regular bluegrass band...Charlie had a voice that would fit either bluegrass or country much like Barry Barrier....

[M.Marmot]

So, apart from the different voice range, the use (or non-use) banjo is one of the big differences between country and bluegrass?

I had not realised that, but a quick run through country and bluegrass albums in my head, and it makes sense.

how about Tim O Brien and Red Knuckles? Do(es) (t)he(y) count toward this thread?

[AlanN]

Yes, Willie, Charlie Waller was a conundrum. Had a voice which was country register, but from some reason, he never really 'felt' country, at least to me. Could be because he was forever linked to Duffey and Adcock from the early days. He hit more of the country thing with one of the later versions of the Gents with Allred and Kent Dowell, but even then, not too country.

And for some reason, I don't equate Steve Earle with country. More renegade folk, or something. Red Knuckles and the TBs...hmmmm. More spoof than country, to me. Although I can see the thought there.

[greg_tsam]

My point is I feel a supportive band can back a country-tinged vocalist to create a rather unique mix of both things - bluegrass with a country feel (as opposed to the flip side). After all, they are kissin cousins...

I was thinking more like 1st cousins. They can kiss but there's something just a little bit different.

[rockies]

And there is also the album from the iconic bluegrass boy Merle Haggard with the album The Bluegrass Sessions taking his own hits and bluegrassing them .
Dave

[greg_tsam]

I'll admit, right from the off, that i don't understand the seemingly constant need for Bluegrass fans to point out just what, in their opinion, counts as true Bluegrass.

Probably the same folks that feel the need to say the Mumford Bros. are not bluegrass just because they have a banjo in the band. The poor girl that, upon learning I played mandolin, said "I love bluegrass! I listen to the Mumford Bros. all the time." "What!? They're not bluegrass!" :disbelief::mad:

[AlanN]

And there was even a band called Country Grass, with Herschel Sizemore and Wes Golding, their LP was called Livin' Free on Rebel (great! album cover) and one fine record. They even sang a song called I'm Country. But, that was pure bluegrass, imo.

[Joe Mendel]

There was a band called Country Gazette, too. And they even played bluegrass, well, more or less, depending on whose definition you use to define bluegrass. Bluegrass was country music at the beginning, only separated out later when it was deemed to "hick" for the country-politan crowd.

[Tom Coletti]

So, apart from the different voice range, the use (or non-use) banjo is one of the big differences between country and bluegrass?


There's still quite a bit of banjo in country. Banjo resurgence has even been a new source of quibbling in country pop/ folk rock because it isn't "bluegrass banjo."

And actually, the banjo is an extreme case where it was almost ubiquitously associated with southern stereotypes and lot of people forget or never even knew that it was an African instrument in origin because of how far removed it was from its home, and if I had to choose one album with a so-called "bluegrass" instrument to be grateful for, it is Bela Fleck's "Throw Down Your Heart," because it reminds us that instruments and genres are extrinsic to the essence of music itself, merely different ways of accessing certain sounds and tones.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3_10RKZFmc

Then on the other side of the coin, Alison Krauss & Union Station are one of the more notable contemporary bluegrass bands to not feature a mandolin and lean slightly towards country, and they seem to be very well-respected here.

Instrumentation is sort of a gray area for defining genres today in that one can play almost anything on anything if they so desire because of worldwide interconnection and cross-pollination. One of the things that I love about the Transatlantic Sessions is that you get to hear instruments in a different context, like Uilleann Pipes and clawhammer banjo in an upbeat bluegrassy rendition of a blues tune, flute and accordion with 5-string banjo in an Irish rendition of a Flecktones tune, and a whole bunch of other combinations that are more about hopping over fences than fortifying them.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSRzEbb2qVU

--Tom

[Herbm55]

There was a band called Country Gazette, too. And they even played bluegrass, well, more or less, depending on whose definition you use to define bluegrass. Bluegrass was country music at the beginning, only separated out later when it was deemed to "hick" for the country-politan crowd.

Country Gazette! Golly, Kenny Wertz singing that high part! I still have that vinyl. Herb Pedersen was another that crossed boundaries. Good music is good music....

[AlanN]

You're speaking about A Traitor In Our Midst, right? Great record from a bygone era. Has that neat little Berline mandolin number Aggravation. Always loved that inside comic book spread.

[padawan]

Is it weird that this thread makes me miss "Hee-Haw"? (the music part of it anyway)

[mandocrucian]

That west coast stuff, the original Country Gazette, KY Cols. etc. - that sound owed just as much to Bakersfield (Buck Owens, Merle Haggard) as ever it did to Monroe.

BG in the early days was just a sub-form of Country. Then the formula began to get narrower and narrower until the rhythmic groove "evolved" (or "devolved" if you prefer) to primarily "fast chop" and "faster chop".

Want countrified bluegrass...... get some Jim Eanes records, or Buzz Busby and Leon Morris. Or how about The Maddox Brothers & Rose (more west coast madness)?

Or get some of the early albums by The Johnson Mountain Boys. Their sound, and repertoire , goes back to the days before everything was a fast 2/4 polka rhythm. JMB did stuff in waltz time, they did Jimmie Rodgers and stuff bordering on country-boogie. Compared to most of the other bands at the time, they performed a much wider variety of groves and tempos.

But then, what about John Duffey/original Seldom Scene singing things like "Wait A Minute", which is smooth modern "country"? And then there's the first Gaudreau/Adcock II Generation album with tunes like "Legend In My Time" and banjo playing which is puire Telecaster playing put onto a banjo neck.

Rowan/Clarence/Greene/Grisman in Muleskinner...... back to the west coast stuff, as much country-rock as it is BG.

But the BG crowd has some sort of notion about "purity" and has a tendency to reject things that don't pass their "test". Yeah that ain't no part of nuthin'

[Charley wild]

A whole lot of Flatt and Scruggs stuff had a 40's/50's Country sound. "Dim lights......" is one example and there are many others.
Yet they are probably my all time favorite Bluegrass band.

[wildpikr]

The Steep Canyon Rangers have a new release: "Tell the Ones I Love". It has some tracks with drums and pedal steel. Seems to fit with the topic of this thread...~o)

[GuitarDogs62]

Honestly Bluegrass and it's fans for the most part remains in tradition and acoustics and picking. Country now adays is POP with a little country fling. They don't really mix well and only a few artist like Dolly can sing and play on both sides. I am a traditional Bluegrass player and love the feel and sound of what the music is about. I don't ever want to see Bluegrass lose it's way like country has done. Hootie and the blowfish now trying to sing country, what a joke.

[Timbofood]

Just to put the full measure of the "cross breeding" Jim and Jesse did an entire album of Chuck Berry tunes, called "Berry Pickin'", not my favorite blend but, this would get pretty dull if we all only liked one bands style wouldn't it?
When it's done well, why not? If it makes someone happy to pick, so be it. If it's a lousy version, just turn it off, exercise ultimate censorship if you must, it's your right.
I have heard great cross genre music over the years, some, not so great and some, I simply turned off. When it's good it worth the listen, and something to learn from.
How many of you all remember the version of "Honkey Tonk Women" that the "Virginia Squires" did back in '78(?)? Not my particular cup of tea but it was their arrangement that was what I thought was weak not the tune itself. And "Nashville Bluegrass Band" version of Jim Ringers "Waitin' For The Hard Times To go" where they leave put an entire line from each verse, musically I love it but, I knew Jim and he would have expected them to do the extra line! I don't understand why these very talented musician do things like that! they give credit Ringers estate got paid,why change it?
I don't have problems with things being done by anyone, most of the time, certainly not when a band does a good cover.
Special Concensus does many of them, has for years, hope Greg never gets tired of expanding the musical scope of this genre.

[mrmando]

I got a Mountain Heart CD a few years ago. I listened a couple of times and finally figured out what I didn't like about it. It wasn't a bluegrass album, it was a country album with bluegrass instrumentation.

[mrmando]

I'll admit, right from the off, that i don't understand the seemingly constant need for Bluegrass fans to point out just what, in their opinion, counts as true Bluegrass.
It's not a matter of opinion. :grin:

[Gary Hedrick]

When you approach this question I think it requires some examination based upon time frames. Bluegrass is in my mind a continuum .....Dr. Rosenburg's book on Bluegrass does a academic job of looking at the roots of the music and its flow over a number of years.

Even in the beginnings one could argue that Wade and JE Mainer had every bit as much of that feel as did Bill and Charlie. The beginnings also had Sally Forester on an accordion......a frailing banjo and a guitar player that did a more shuffle style of stroke.

Things have constantly evolved but I think the basic roots aren't that far from each other.... country and bluegrass......

Got to understand where you have been to understand where you are going.....

[Andy B]

I like both kinds of music--country AND western, oops, I mean country and bluegrass! Although the country ain't what it once was, and maybe the grass isn't either. Hee-Haw in the early days had George Jones and Tammy Wynette duetting on "Walk Through This World With Me" (also done in grass by the Seldom Scene) and Dolly Parton singing "Coat of Many Colors"--hard to beat that. Lots of the country from those years adapts well to bluegrass.

[Mike Bunting]

Back in the golden age bluegrass an country music weren't too far apart. Here's Del Reeves sitting in with Jimmy Martin. Not a bad bluegrass voice.

3Ljh5pMT6Pk

[Ivan Kelsall]

I have all the early Country Gazzette LP's & i always thought that they played songs that were very close to a C & W / Bluegrass 'fusion'. On their 2nd LP 'Don't Give UpYour Day Job',the song 'Fallen Eagle' has lyrics more akin to 'Country' style that pure Bluegrass( IMHO),but it's one of my favourite songs of theirs to play. Some of the stufff on the Berline/Crary/ Hickman recordings are also 'borderline country but it's all terrific stuff. From mandocrucian -''Jim Eanes records ". 'I wouldn't Change You If I Could' would be a good example of what sounds to me like a pure Country song.The only thing that's 'really' Bluegrass in the song is the neat little banjo solo. Personally,i see no reason why good Country songs / tunes,couldn't be done with a Bluegrass band ( no steel guitars/ drums/bagpipes/) backing,as long as it's not of the Merle Haggard 'Momma's Hungry Eyes' genre,
Ivan:grin:;)

[grassrootphilosopher]

That west coast stuff, the original Country Gazette, KY Cols. etc. - that sound owed just as much to Bakersfield (Buck Owens, Merle Haggard) as ever it did to Monroe.

BG in the early days was just a sub-form of Country. Then the formula began to get narrower and narrower until the rhythmic groove "evolved" (or "devolved" if you prefer) to primarily "fast chop" and "faster chop".

Want countrified bluegrass...... get some Jim Eanes records, or Buzz Busby and Leon Morris. Or how about The Maddox Brothers & Rose (more west coast madness)?

Or get some of the early albums by The Johnson Mountain Boys. Their sound, and repertoire , goes back to the days before everything was a fast 2/4 polka rhythm. JMB did stuff in waltz time, they did Jimmie Rodgers and stuff bordering on country-boogie. Compared to most of the other bands at the time, they performed a much wider variety of groves and tempos.

But then, what about John Duffey/original Seldom Scene singing things like "Wait A Minute", which is smooth modern "country"? And then there's the first Gaudreau/Adcock II Generation album with tunes like "Legend In My Time" and banjo playing which is puire Telecaster playing put onto a banjo neck.

Rowan/Clarence/Greene/Grisman in Muleskinner...... back to the west coast stuff, as much country-rock as it is BG.

But the BG crowd has some sort of notion about "purity" and has a tendency to reject things that don't pass their "test". Yeah that ain't no part of nuthin'

This post exemplifies a certain "problem" well. The bluegrass crowd will gladly let "their" musicians out but they will not let musicians from other genres in.

Anybody that would reject "Muleskinner" as unbluegrass will probably be crucified by the bluegrass lynch mob, especially by the Clarence White/Tony Rice camp though there is some severe rock electric guitar on that album. Why is Clarence White who didn´t have a "bluegrass-voice" put on a pedestal all the time though he was an incredible rock musician (and it shows in his playing)? Because he simply was a superb musician. He was "let out". Eddie Adcock is a bluegrass banjo legend and nobody crucifies him for his "country" music.

But what if a great musician wants in? This is the closemindedness that I think is hurting. My heart is with old school bluegrass. I don´t like the Mumford & Sons stuff because I think it lacks musicianship but I also do not like the Pogues for the same reason. I don´t like the Punch Bros. stuff most of the time though I have to bow to their musicianship. But I would be a confounded fool to turn my back to people that want to play bluegrass and maybe have their own approach to it.

If you are looking at the European bluegrass scene you will see that there are many musicians who know how to play modern bluegrass. If they are confronted with older styles some of them do not get "it", especially the rythm etc. is difficult for them to follow. Some Monroe numbers that are actually quite simple when it comes to the chords simply bust any jam because of their quirky chord changes. I find that musicians here have not gone through the "training ground" of the older styles. If you play it for them, they appreciate it a lot. If you go to countries like the Czech republic or France you will find that bluegrass goes hand in hand with other styles of music like country, jazz, manouche jazz, folk (I was in a wonderfull jam session in England recently and it had accordeon and a rather english blend of bluegrass) etc. I apprecate all of this a lot.

[M.Marmot]

So, is it that bluegrass has become more exclusive through the years?

Neatly skipping or excusing aberrations while promoting a rather strict musical doctrine?

It's just some of the names mentioned here as having crossover country elements would be recognisable (even to me) as being straight from the bluegrass canon.

[M.Marmot]

This post exemplifies a certain "problem" well. The bluegrass crowd will gladly let "their" musicians out but they will not let musicians from other genres in.

If you are looking at the European bluegrass scene you will see that there are many musicians who know how to play modern bluegrass. If they are confronted with older styles some of them do not get "it", especially the rythm etc. is difficult for them to follow. Some Monroe numbers that are actually quite simple when it comes to the chords simply bust any jam because of their quirky chord changes. I find that musicians here have not gone through the "training ground" of the older styles. If you play it for them, they appreciate it a lot. If you go to countries like the Czech republic or France you will find that bluegrass goes hand in hand with other styles of music like country, jazz, manouche jazz, folk (I was in a wonderfull jam session in England recently and it had accordeon and a rather english blend of bluegrass) etc. I apprecate all of this a lot.

I suppose in Europe it is a case of 'beggars cannot be choosers' - it is hard to find enough people who are enthusiastic for bluegrass, let alone the trouble of finding people who also play the officially sanctioned and appropriate instruments - as a result if you want to play the songs and tunes that you love then it's a fool's errand to be too strict about who you play with.

[grassrootphilosopher]

I suppose in Europe it is a case of 'beggars cannot be choosers' -

Not really. You might know about the French bluegrass music association and the Laroche sur Foron Bluegrass festival and the Country Festival at Craponne. The French Bluegrass scene is not all that shabby.

mm_kpFUagOg

DOkAYOrqXLc
Audie Blaylock for example at 19:35

And check out the Czech szene. It is incredibly vibrant and the musicians are top notch. The Caslav Banjo Jamboree (http://www.banjojamboree.cz/bj-english.php) for example held its 41st (bluegrass) festival this year. This is a classic example of great czech musicianship:

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As you see Philip Bato (bjo) plays cromatically a lot. I once jammed with him on Whitewater (Bela Fleck tune) and he was so fast and acurate that it made your eyes water to watch him. Equally Ondra Kosak (mand.) is a top notch multiinstrumentalist (guitar, fiddle, mandolin) and if you see him tear up a manouche jazz tune it´s a treat.

Still these guys (pretty much all of the European bands) are modern.

There are other places where you´d have to grow the musicians that you´d want to play with. But I think that this is no different in certain places in the US (let´s say Wyoming or Rhode Island).

On the other hand, I allways embrace good musicianship.

[AlanN]

This post exemplifies a certain "problem" well. The bluegrass crowd will gladly let "their" musicians out but they will not let musicians from other genres in.

Good point, Olaf. This xenophobic attitude has lessened somewhat over the years, but you still see it. I am guilty, too. At IBMA, a harmonica player muscled his way into a well-staffed jam (1 of each, all solid players). I inwardly shuddered, said nothing, and continued to pick Cripple Creek with eyes closed.


Why is Clarence White who didn´t have a "bluegrass-voice" put on a pedestal all the time though he was an incredible rock musician (and it shows in his playing)? Because he simply was a superb musician. He was "let out".


Long before his rock stint, he came onto the scene as a super bluegrass flatpicker; some still consider him the best ever, notwithstanding Rice.



Some Monroe numbers that are actually quite simple when it comes to the chords simply bust any jam because of their quirky chord changes.


Very (and sadly) true.

[palosfv3]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_m5yrE-uMM


It mixes well when done like this.

[tree]

I don't rightly know, paw . . .

s1C9UBp9zN8

but I dig it, and that's what matters to me.

[Timbofood]

When you approach this question I think it requires some examination based upon time frames. Bluegrass is in my mind a continuum .....Dr. Rosenburg's book on Bluegrass does a academic job of looking at the roots of the music and its flow over a number of years.

Even in the beginnings one could argue that Wade and JE Mainer had every bit as much of that feel as did Bill and Charlie. The beginnings also had Sally Forester on an accordion......a frailing banjo and a guitar player that did a more shuffle style of stroke.

Things have constantly evolved but I think the basic roots aren't that far from each other.... country and bluegrass......

Got to understand where you have been to understand where you are going.....
I have said your closing line time and time again, Gary. That's my feeling about it too!!

[farmerjones]

Can you have a cross-over discussion without mentioning Vince Gill? Check.

My jaded opinion: What little money there is, it's still about money. And to get the most, means not to split it with others. You can't sell as many records if there is some confusion between you and your kin. Only in jams do you want to blend in and belong.
The Sam Bush's, Tim Obrien's, David Grisman's, Alison Krause's, bust their collective humps to separate themselves, to create a distinction, in a hopefully profitable way. I certainly would follow their examples than the Bluegrass Police. The aforementioned are way too busy actually doing IT, to harp about what ain't no part o' nothing.

Somewhere in Nashville right now, there's somebody saying, "What we'll do is blend X, Y, and a little bit of Z, and that's gonna knock 'em dead."

On second thought, I suppose, Tim Obrien, David Grisman, & Alison Krause, have the wisdom to know whatever they do, won't sound like somebody else. Also the wisdom not go chasing somebody else's sound. But initially they had to break away.

[Beanzy]

I'm investing a lot of time and effort really trying to understand Bluegrass music to the same level that I love it. But I really have a hard time with the main-stream Nashville C&W stuff, it'll never really grab me at all. In terms of country singers and those normally working outside the genre having a go, I adopt the attitude that it's nice to have the country cousins come visit, just so long as they don't try to re-decorate the house and move all the furniture while they're here.

Here's a quick (2 minute) re-working of an old favourite for any C&W stars to use as a transition number;

"It's been ten long minutes since I left my studio
In the mansion where I was made
Where the cool jazz nights make the ceegar smoke rise
And the talent hunter blows his wallet

I fell in love with my bank account
I thought it’s too good to be true
I ran away to Nashville
And worked in a band or two

What have they done to the old Bluegrass
Why did they tear it down
And why did I leave the stage in the field
And look for a job in the town

Well my money ran off with somebody else
The taverns took all my pay
And here I stand where the Bluegrass stood
Before they took it away

Now the gut’s gone south and the pickin’ slows
As I stand here and hang my head
I've lost my love I've lost my home
And now I wish that I was fed"

[GuitarDogs62]

It is rather apparent that country or what is called country today is still just plain old POP music as I said before with some country twang added to it. The last of the true country stars are retiring or slowly fading away. Now it's Hootie and the Blow Fish, Taylor Swift and so on for the most part. Bluegrass and I mean American Bluegrass is rich and full of tradition. When country or another genre tries to blend it with this music it is called Newgrass. I have listened to it many times specially on Bluegrass Junction when driving home late on Saturday nights from the weekly Bluegrass Jam session. The Music loses it feel and style and does not even conform to what Bluegrass music is all about. The music gets down right boring and does not connect with most Bluegrass listeners. Country has lost it's way and it's meaning. Bluegrass has not and yes I will play it the way it is suppose to be including teaching upcoming children as well. Bluegrass is true and is a tradition full of pride along with a great acoustic sound. I do not know why Bluegrass has to be mixed with anything and should be just left alone. The Sound is as true and pure as you can get. The sounds from the traditional Bluegrass instruments are second to none.

[GuitarDogs62]

I'm investing a lot of time and effort really trying to understand Bluegrass music to the same level that I love it. But I really have a hard time with the main-stream Nashville C&W stuff, it'll never really grab me at all. In terms of country singers and those normally working outside the genre having a go, I adopt the attitude that it's nice to have the country cousins come visit, just so long as they don't try to re-decorate the house and move all the furniture while they're here.

I agree with you 100% and also want to add that the country cousin's when in rome should act like the romans.

[J.Albert]

[[ Country and Grass - Do They Mix? ]]

Sure. Just like oil and water... :)

[Gary Hedrick]

Perhaps I am not understanding your thoughts but I don't find a Vince Gill mentioning in this thread a problem......if I remember correctly he started out as a bluegrass mandolin player in Oklahoma.....then migrated to Pure Prairie League and then into Country and now he is back doing the bluegrass thang.......and the dude is the real McCoy in terms of playing the music ...He knows how to do it and do it well.....and with the pickers he has with him wellllllllll those are some of THE best.

[AlanN]

Oh yeah, Vince is a grass man from way back. Check him on the 2 Bill Perry Bluegrass Jam things with Bobby Clark, Flux Douglas, Ricky Skaggs. As a matter of fact, he bought Bobby's 29 Fern, one dandy mandolin. Here Today is another thing he was on.

And I checked out that Eagles Midnight Flyer. Fun, but got nothin' on Bobby Osborne....

[Tom Haywood]

I'm Blue, I'm Lonesome Too.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Listening to Vince Gill,you absolutely know that he's a 'Grass man first & foremost. Marty Stuart is another guy who,for me,'fits both shoes'. He has a great voice for both these genres of music,plus the sincerity of his performance - ie.not just going through the motions of pretending to be something he isn't. I don't know what others think,but for me,a singer needs the right voice for Bluegrass,& some singers don't have it (IMHO). As much as i love Hank Williams' voice (as an example),for me (again), the embodiment of a perfect voice for the style he sang in,i couldn't imagine him singing Bluegrass & 'sounding right'.
A few months back,i bought the 'History Of The Eagles' DVD & in it they say that their original idea when Bernie Leadon was in the band,was to be a Country Rock band that could also play Bluegrass. Now,the Eagles are my favourite band in any genre ever,simply because of their awesome musicianship & songwriting,but just having a Bluegrass picker in the band,wouldn't have made them a 'Bluegrass' band,but a band that could sing Bluegrass songs if the wished,& have a credible sound. The same goes for 'The Desert Rose' band,who, with Chris Hillman & Herb Pederson in their lineup,had two serious Bluegrassers.
I'm a serious Trad.Bluegrass enthusiast,but there are times when i hear bands such as the early Eagles & The Desert Rose Band,who can blend Country & Bluegrass superbly well,& their music sounds awesome,
Ivan

[M.Marmot]

I don't know what others think,but for me,a singer needs the right voice for Bluegrass,& some singers don't have it (IMHO). As much as i love Hank Williams' voice (as an example),for me (again), the embodiment of a perfect voice for the style he sang in,i couldn't imagine him singing Bluegrass & 'sounding right'. Ivan

I tend to agree with what you are saying there - a lot of emphasis gets put on the technical brilliance of the playing but for me whats going on with the singing and harmonies are more important.

I was wondering though - and i'm not sure how to put this - is there a bluegrass singer whose singing, for you, is on the edge of acceptable? Someone whose singing might blur or confuse the line somewhat?

[AlanN]

Good question, because there can be such a fine line between the 2 genres that the vocals can either make or break it. Steffey comes to mind, as his low register can fit the country crooner thing. I think of his take on Don't Let Your Deal Go Down, in B chord. He does it slowly, a nice change of pace from the frenetic grass thing. Steve Wilson also comes to mind as he fits the country thing pretty well; Buck White, too.

[farmerjones]

No, I mentioned Vinny for all good and positive reasons. He's probably one of my favorite vocalists.

Just me, I find it hard to listen to Bluegrass with a Baritone lead. Lester Flatt not withstanding.

What do they say? "High as Wavy Gravy, Lonesome as Justin Beeber at Bean Blossum." :)

[Wolfboy]

I was wondering though - and i'm not sure how to put this - is there a bluegrass singer whose singing, for you, is on the edge of acceptable? Someone whose singing might blur or confuse the line somewhat?

The aforementioned Charlie Waller, and how about David Parmley? Some of the Bluegrass Cardinals' slower material, without banjo and dominated by multiple fiddles and Parmley's soulful baritone lead vocal, struck me as a lot more "country" than "bluegrass." And even Larry Sparks, as hardcore a "bluegrass" artist as he is, blurs the line occasionally (e.g. "John Deere Tractor").

I'm putting the terms "country" and "bluegrass" in quotes because I'm still not sure what our working definition of either is in this discussion...what exactly defines the dividing line? Lead vocal range/style seems to have something to do with it, and instrumentation obviously, but there must be more to it than that...

[AlanN]

Good mention of Parmley. He actually tried to re-make himself into a country-type crooner in N-ville in the last few years, met with marginal success, I hear.

Sparks - I hear you. His band make-up always seems to sit squarely in the hard-core grass camp. So, the blend between his delivery/songs and the band actually is a niche, few in there.

The Lost & Found (Allen Mills): smooth, unique blend of hard and soft, particularly when Dempsey was in there. One guy (forget who) called them Country-Style bluegrass. Maybe.

[TonyP]

Am I missing the point or is it just an oversight that Alison Kraus has not been mentioned? She's been on both charts for years.

And like Dave Parmley, before she went "all in" Rhonda Vincent did a Country album and was being actively courted.

Same with Laurie Lewis with her Love Chooses You album.

Lynn Morris always had one foot on the Country side and the other in Bluegrass. Every album she's ever done has one Buck Owens song on it done up grass.

It would seem to point out that except for Alison none of the women have either wanted to go country or was accepted. Personally, I find the Country crowd around here not accepting of anything that smacks of Bluegrass. They look down on hillbilly music. Where the Bluegrassers don't seem to mind Country tinged singing and pickin'. But then again, I am on the Left Coast :)

[GuitarDogs62]

Keep in mind that Bluegrass pickers just show up in the clothes they have on for the most part. Unless your on stage like with Jimmy Martin or Bill Monroe then dress and style was called upon. But for the most part at a bluegrass festival the fans are dressed in what ever is comfortable and do bring their instruments to play and jam with each other. They are there for the music and fun and jamming along with fellow pickers, some who they know and a lot of others that they do not know. At a country concert you see most of the audiance dressed up like wanna be cowboys that have to look just so or try an imitate their favorite singer. I am a transplant from Texas living here in NJ and have been all around the South and South East and grew up on Bluegrass. What I have noticed more so is that Bluegrass lovers love to hear some good country music and surely do enjoy it and will applaud you on stage. But if you want to get that crowd all fired up, just start playing, Old Joe Clark, A Cripple Creek, Fireball Mail or Sunny side of the Mountain. Bluegrass music is and can be called hill Billy music. What is so special about it, it is the most pure and true music that you will ever hear played. The musicians from all leves are just great and learn to play there instruments and can make them sing. I have seen some great pickers on guitar in country but still find the Bluegrass boys still play it best. One of the best bluegrass guitar players made it over to country and then his life was taken way to soon. This young man played with a young Ricky Skaggs. His name was the late great Keith Whitley. His guitar flatpicking skills were just amazing at his age. His singing like My Amy was just pure and fresh. If you want to see what todays up coming Bluegrass musicians sound like, then listen to three brother from New Jersey called the Sleepy Man Banjo Boys. Those boys are just that, boys. They play better than most adults in Bluegrass. Listen to the Guitar, Banjo and Fiddle. There youngest brother is playing Mandolin and is still working on his way to joining his three older brothers. I can hardly wait to see what happens when he is ready to join his brothers. Now if you want to hear the instrumental side of Bluegrass then take a listen to them. The music is second to none with a good down home feel that touches the soul and triggers happiness inside. Bluegrass is just not about singing. It's about playing/picking and having fun and a good time together.

[tree]

And I checked out that Eagles Midnight Flyer. Fun, but got nothin' on Bobby Osborne....

Yeah but in 1974 Bobby Osborne didn't exist in my (limited) musical world . . . actually think the Eagles vocals are a little tighter than the Osborns (at least the version I have with Mac Wiseman on lead) but still, I like both.

It still amazes me that a country/rock band with electric guitars and drums could even come close to BG feel/groove, but there it was, at least until the slide part near the end.

[Gary Hedrick]

I have some tapes of old WWVA and WRVA radio shows and you would think Elvis was on stage rather than the Osborne Brothers and Red Allen.....scream....scream ...girls just swooning over them....

Very rock and roll like.... and it used to be that the bluegrass standard was dressing alike on stage.....not today but sometimes I think the bands look like a bunch of derelicts....not even clean clothes....ah maybe I'm just crotchety in my "old" age...

[grassrootphilosopher]

Okay, I´ll stick my head out. Don´t chop it off.

What makes bluegrass just that:
- tight instrumentation by all participants (that goes for all instruments, not one is allways in the foreground, not one is letting off, like AJ did with his guitar playing. If you see Jimmy Martin, he would occasionally let off but that was just to do some "spoof" thing, but he was allways right back in there to pick)

- tight singing, when you hear harmony singing you are sometimes hard pressed to hear who is singing what part (great examples by the Country Gentlemen on the "Sound Off" record)

- Nobody is playing the bull wolf. If a bluegrass band has a head figure it is because of respect not because it´s he who pays the bills. All band members are equally respected by the audience (and that goes for acts like Ricky Skaggs, Allison Kraus, Ralph Stanley, Jimmy Martin, Bill Monroe etc. etc. as opposed to the Dixie Chicks on their "bluegrass" album/DVD/video - great as the music is [Adam Steffey on mandolin, Bryan Sutton on guitar for example])

- The lead vocals have to be spot on. Because there´s so much music going on there´s no room for a voice to not blend in. We forgive people like Bill Monroe that in his late years he was pitchy. But that is because of respect concerning the termendous toll he payed to bluegrass music (the likes can be said concerning Earl Scruggs and his banjo picking in his late years).

Put this together and you have a blend of instruments and vocals that is a group effort. This to me is bluegrass. If you achieve this goal, drive soulfulness, apropriate material etc. come automatically. It is great to watch the achievements of the East Tennessee State University´s bluegrass program. Just check out their youtube videos. The have groomed musicians in doing just what I mentioned above and the result is wonderful.

I think that one can neglect the vocal range. Why, the voice of all voices, Tony Rice, was a baritone. He strained his voice to reach the bluegrass stratosphere but if you listen to "Home Sweet Home Revisited" and blend out Ricky Skaggs´ voice, you have pure country. Clarence White is no high pitched bluegrass singer by a country mile. He´s as rock as can be. Still blend in his voice and all is grass. Nobody would exclude Clarence White (born in the North grew up on the left coast), the Parmleys (left coast grass), Chris Hillman (left coast), Phil Rosenthal (Maryland, Rhode Island?) from the pool of bluegrass singers.

What I think "makes" country it is this. And please take it with a grain of salt because bussiness has to do with it.

- You have one head man that everything is focused on (Alan Jackson, Tanya Tucker, Crystal Gayle, Marty Robbins, Toby Walker...). Anybody knows any of their band members or what role they play in the band context?

- Because country focuses on one person (I see the Judds as one person too), blend is not important anymore. The background singers have to support the front man. That´s why Buck White and his girls sound entirely different in a bluegrass context than when they play country (which they did - though I like their bluegrass way better).

- That´s why the lead vocals just have to be interesting. Being spot on is not really necessary anymore. Just think Mick Jagger running on a stage an carrying on. It´s for show. Nobody expects him to sing on key. It doesn´t matter because the music goes on anyway.

Now if Allan Jackson was blending his vocals (so that when singing together you wouldn´t know who sang the lead part) if he was an actual part of the band (meaning that he would have to pick and not stop playing to put a hand on his heart etc.), if the spotlight was on the other musicians as much as it was on AJ, I would see no reasons not to call that music bluegrass.

If we talked about song selection that would open another can of worms.
- Jimmy Martin - "Widow Maker" - country topic?
- Bill Monroe - "Lonesome Truck Drivers Blues" ???
- J.D. Crowe & The New South - "Devil In Disguise"
- Kentucky Colonels - "Chugalug" (spelling errors?)
- Osborne Bros. (! one of their hits) - "Once More"
- Tony Rice - mostly all Lightfoot songs and a bunch more
- Lester Flatt - "Backing To Birmingham", "I don´t know the boys from the girls"
- Larry Sparks - "John Deere Tractor"
- Moondi Klein (whatever band that was he played in) - "Trouble In The Fields" (or was it IIId Time Out)

I think that it would be a shame if anybody should be so prejudiced as to think bluegrass people ar just a dumb hick bunch of hilbillies with a few teeth chewing tobacco and doing inbreed music or country people are just a group of wannabe truckdriving cowboys with stenciled shirts that sing about juke boxes.

I think it´s enough when in Europe I have to fight the prejudices of jazz oriented officials that are unaware of the musical power that is in bluegrass. I find (unfortunately) that folk people are usually prejudiced (irish, scottish, german etc. alike) because their musical abilities are subpar (my opinion is restricted to Germany).

Other than that, one fond memory is when I had been "rehearsing" with my good friend and long time picking buddy and we wanted to grab a drink in a pub in the town that I had just moved to. We walked in, ordered a beer and put our guitar cases down. We were eyed and then one of the patrons in the pub asked us if we played music. We said that we didn´t want to disturb anybody by playing our kind of music. We were asked what it was, said that it was bluegrass. They said that they didn´t know what that was but we should give it a go. When everything was said and done, we had been playing all night, made new friends and played to an excedingly receptive crowd that had never even heard the word bluegrass before. They had an open mind, and it made me glad.

[Mike Bunting]

Okay, I´ll stick my head out. Don´t chop it off.

What makes bluegrass just that:
- tight instrumentation by all participants (that goes for all instruments, not one is allways in the foreground, not one is letting off, like AJ did with his guitar playing. If you see Jimmy Martin, he would occasionally let off but that was just to do some "spoof" thing, but he was allways right back in there to pick)

- tight singing, when you hear harmony singing you are sometimes hard pressed to hear who is singing what part (great examples by the Country Gentlemen on the "Sound Off" record)

- Nobody is playing the bull wolf. If a bluegrass band has a head figure it is because of respect not because it´s he who pays the bills. All band members are equally respected by the audience (and that goes for acts like Ricky Skaggs, Allison Kraus, Ralph Stanley, Jimmy Martin, Bill Monroe etc. etc. as opposed to the Dixie Chicks on their "bluegrass" album/DVD/video - great as the music is [Adam Steffey on mandolin, Bryan Sutton on guitar for example])

- The lead vocals have to be spot on. Because there´s so much music going on there´s no room for a voice to not blend in. We forgive people like Bill Monroe that in his late years he was pitchy. But that is because of respect concerning the termendous toll he payed to bluegrass music (the likes can be said concerning Earl Scruggs and his banjo picking in his late years).

Put this together and you have a blend of instruments and vocals that is a group effort. This to me is bluegrass. If you achieve this goal, drive soulfulness, apropriate material etc. come automatically. It is great to watch the achievements of the East Tennessee State University´s bluegrass program. Just check out their youtube videos. The have groomed musicians in doing just what I mentioned above and the result is wonderful.

I think that one can neglect the vocal range. Why, the voice of all voices, Tony Rice, was a baritone. He strained his voice to reach the bluegrass stratosphere but if you listen to "Home Sweet Home Revisited" and blend out Ricky Skaggs´ voice, you have pure country. Clarence White is no high pitched bluegrass singer by a country mile. He´s as rock as can be. Still blend in his voice and all is grass. Nobody would exclude Clarence White (born in the North grew up on the left coast), the Parmleys (left coast grass), Chris Hillman (left coast), Phil Rosenthal (Maryland, Rhode Island?) from the pool of bluegrass singers.

What I think "makes" country it is this. And please take it with a grain of salt because bussiness has to do with it.

- You have one head man that everything is focused on (Alan Jackson, Tanya Tucker, Crystal Gayle, Marty Robbins, Toby Walker...). Anybody knows any of their band members or what role they play in the band context?

- Because country focuses on one person (I see the Judds as one person too), blend is not important anymore. The background singers have to support the front man. That´s why Buck White and his girls sound entirely different in a bluegrass context than when they play country (which they did - though I like their bluegrass way better).

- That´s why the lead vocals just have to be interesting. Being spot on is not really necessary anymore. Just think Mick Jagger running on a stage an carrying on. It´s for show. Nobody expects him to sing on key. It doesn´t matter because the music goes on anyway.

Now if Allan Jackson was blending his vocals (so that when singing together you wouldn´t know who sang the lead part) if he was an actual part of the band (meaning that he would have to pick and not stop playing to put a hand on his heart etc.), if the spotlight was on the other musicians as much as it was on AJ, I would see no reasons not to call that music bluegrass.

If we talked about song selection that would open another can of worms.
- Jimmy Martin - "Widow Maker" - country topic?
- Bill Monroe - "Lonesome Truck Drivers Blues" ???
- J.D. Crowe & The New South - "Devil In Disguise"
- Kentucky Colonels - "Chugalug" (spelling errors?)
- Osborne Bros. (! one of their hits) - "Once More"
- Tony Rice - mostly all Lightfoot songs and a bunch more
- Lester Flatt - "Backing To Birmingham", "I don´t know the boys from the girls"
- Larry Sparks - "John Deere Tractor"
- Moondi Klein (whatever band that was he played in) - "Trouble In The Fields" (or was it IIId Time Out)

I think that it would be a shame if anybody should be so prejudiced as to think bluegrass people ar just a dumb hick bunch of hilbillies with a few teeth chewing tobacco and doing inbreed music or country people are just a group of wannabe truckdriving cowboys with stenciled shirts that sing about juke boxes.

I think it´s enough when in Europe I have to fight the prejudices of jazz oriented officials that are unaware of the musical power that is in bluegrass. I find (unfortunately) that folk people are usually prejudiced (irish, scottish, german etc. alike) because their musical abilities are subpar (my opinion is restricted to Germany).

Other than that, one fond memory is when I had been "rehearsing" with my good friend and long time picking buddy and we wanted to grab a drink in a pub in the town that I had just moved to. We walked in, ordered a beer and put our guitar cases down. We were eyed and then one of the patrons in the pub asked us if we played music. We said that we didn´t want to disturb anybody by playing our kind of music. We were asked what it was, said that it was bluegrass. They said that they didn´t know what that was but we should give it a go. When everything was said and done, we had been playing all night, made new friends and played to an excedingly receptive crowd that had never even heard the word bluegrass before. They had an open mind, and it made me glad.

I'd agree with all that. Re: Osborne Bros. and "Once More" what glorious singing!

[AlanN]

Wow, Olaf, just...wow.

Spot on.

[mandolirius]

All the examples of country music in this thread seem rather dated, to me. I think, especially by today's standards, they don't mix, nor should they. One (country) is headed for extinction, the other is not. Country music, as represented by Nashville standards have changed their sound so often that there really isn't much of anything you could really call "country" anymore. Eventually whatever is left will simply be absorbed into the pop realm, if it hasn't already happened. Bluegrass goes through changes and has many different strains, but it always keeps the same basic sound at its core. Country music no longer has a core.

[tree]

Olaf - a thoughtful, articulate essay that shoots straight to the heart of the thread. Kudos!

[Ivan Kelsall]

Re.Alison Krauss (AKUS) as a band.They stopped calling themselves a 'Bluegrass' band quite a while ago as has been often mentioned on here. Over the past 4 - 5 years,most of the recordings by AKUS have had little or no Bluegrass content worth speaking of,that's why so many of us were pleased when Dan Tyminski formed his own band when A.K. was touring around with Robert Plant. AKUS has some of the best pickers in Bluegrass who right now,don't play any - more's the pity !.
Olaf - I know exactly what you mean - ".. never even heard the word bluegrass before".I've always felt that there's something visceral in Bluegrass music,that really grabs a lot of people when they hear it for the first time.That's how it got me when i first heard it. I've stood next to folks at Bluegrass festivals who simply came to find out what it was all about, & they've been almost jumping around in sheer pleasure. Watching a really good,tight,Bluegrass band in full flow, is one of the most awesome things to witness in any music (IMHO),
Ivan

[AlanN]

I'm always impressed by bands which can interchange vocal parts to suit the material and their sound. The Osbornes, CG, Lost&Found, many others did/do this often; whereas, some bands were oftentimes static in who sang lead, tenor, bari - BGAB, for instance, and JD's bands - guitar sings lead, mando tenor, JD on bari. Very recognizable and regular that way.

[Gary Hedrick]

I can hear John Duffy shooting off the quip "that's the way Bill did it" as the answer to the which instrument player sings what part....

[AlanN]

Well, there is something to say for tradition. Something about

Guitar - lead
Mandolin - tenor
Banjo - baritone

that is so perfect. Surely not to say it *has* to be that way, and it most definitely is not that way in many cases, but when it's like that, there is something that screams "Bullseye!"

[Mandosummers]

...that's why so many of us were pleased when Dan Tyminski formed his own band when A.K. was touring around with Robert Plant.

I heard the Dan T band in Cleveland, TN. To this day that is the best bluegrass concert I have ever heard. I wish they'd get that bunch back together. The "Wheels" album is killer.

[Willie Poole]

When Country was "Country" a lot of those songs can be played by bluegrass bands and will be accepted as Bluegrass, now days the country songs that are on the hit parade stay there for about a week and then you never hear them again except by requests, top country songs in the `50`s stayed on the hit parade for months on end, like traditional bluegrass songs they are still being played and are a mainstay for us diehards...That being said I can see bluegrass slowly changing into something else and myself I don`t like the direction that it is head in, some great pickers but they just don`t have a bluegrass taste or style... BUT I am only one person....

Willie

[tree]

Well, there is something to say for tradition. Something about

Guitar - lead
Mandolin - tenor
Banjo - baritone

that is so perfect. Surely not to say it *has* to be that way, and it most definitely is not that way in many cases, but when it's like that, there is something that screams "Bullseye!"

Interesting . . . I can't say that I've ever related a vocalist's range with their instrument in bluegrass or anything else. It just never occurred to me. I guess everybody's wheels turn a little different.:grin:

[GuitarDogs62]

Interesting . . . I can't say that I've ever related a vocalist's range with their instrument in bluegrass or anything else. It just never occurred to me. I guess everybody's wheels turn a little different.:grin:

When I am the singer my guitar is capo'd up in A. This raises the guitar that matches my voice. I sing alot of Jimmy Martin and my voice can get to 2/3 the level as the osbournes. Ever try singing like that in in G. I am singing one level and hear my guitar at another. Makes singing a little difficult for me and sometimes would make me feel my voice needs to go lower. When I capo up, I am very comfortable singing in my high voice which then stay very consistant. This response is off topic a bit here but just wanted to add that in when I seen your repsonse.

[tree]

In the band I play with, I play mandolin mostly, and guitar on a few songs. I sing baritone (my preference), tenor, lead, and a little high baritone (if I understand that term correctly). Not much correlation between the instrument I play and the part I sing, except I probably do sing baritone and play mandolin on more songs than not. Mostly I try to sing where needed or where I hear a particular part.

[Ivan Kelsall]

From mandosummers - "..I wish they'd get that bunch back together.". A lot of us do & the 'Wheels' album,although not 100% 'trad.' Bluegrass,is a beautiful recording,with some of Adam Steffey's finest playing on it (IMHO).
I agree with Wilie's point that Bluegrass in 'some respects' is changing.I suppose it has to in a way.New songs have to be written,& new instrumentals have to be composed & if that's going to be done,then the writers/composers are maybe going to target newer,younger fans who haven't been raised on the old,Trad.stuff. Many of these fans however, just might be tempted & curious enought to seek out the older material & get to know the roots of the music. Nothing stays static for ever, & we can't expect bands to go on singing about 'High Mt.Tops' & 'Old Log Cabins In The Lane' for ever either. Also,there's no reason why the new stuff can't carry the same 'feelings' re.home/ family / lost ones / loved ones etc. that has been the backbone of Bluegrass for
50 years or more,but done in a 'modern' way - if the music's good,i'll buy it !,
Ivan;)

[Jeroen]

Thanks guys. This utterly nonsensical thread has got me thinking if there are any bad bands that have their members' names in equal size script and random order.

[Timbofood]

I don't know that I would call my band "Bad" but, we don't even have names on posters, business cards had everyone in same typeface, size.
Ivan, I agree no reason "New" can't evoke "Traditional" theme. Some of the things the boys in Great Lakes Grass have written harken back with respect to an homage to the Stanley's, Jimmy Martin, etc.
As I have said and others echoed, you have to know where you started to know where you're going.

[greg_tsam]

CXbrMR15ct8

Vince can sing some grass.

[j. condino]

77 posts so far....

"Country and Grass".... I thought this was going to be a thread about Willie Nelson....;)